7 ms·

One of the authors here. The tasks here are entry level. So we are impressed that some AI models are able to detect some patterns, while looking just at binary

by stared 8mo ago

One of the authors here. The tasks here are entry level. So we are impressed that some AI models are able to detect some patterns, while looking just at binary code. We didn't take it for granted. For example, only a few models understand Ghidra and Radare2 tooling (Opus 4.5 and 4.6, Gemini 3 Pro, GLM 5) https://quesma.com/benchmarks/binaryaudit/#models-tooling https://quesma.com/benchmarks/binaryaudit/#models-tooling We consider it a starting point for AI agents being able to work with binaries. Other people discovered the same - vide https://x.com/ccccjjjjeeee/status/2021160492039811300 https://x.com/ccccjjjjeeee/status/2021160492039811300 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46846101 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46846101. There is a long way ahead from "OMG, AI can do that!" to an end-to-end solution.

botusaurus 8mo ago
have you tried stuffing a whole set of tutorials on how to use ghidra in the context, especially for the 1 mil token context like gemini?
- stared 8mo ago
  No. To give it a fair test, we didn't tinker with model-specific context-engineering. Adding skills, examples, etc is very likely to improve performance. So is any interactive feedback. Our example instruction is here: https://github.com/QuesmaOrg/BinaryAudit/blob/main/tasks/lighttpd-backdoor-detect-open/instruction.md https://github.com/QuesmaOrg/BinaryAudit/blob/main/tasks/lig...
  - anamexis 8mo ago
    Why, though? That would make sense if you were just trying to do a comparative analysis of different agent's ability to use specific tools without context, but if your thesis is: > However, [the approach of using AI agents for malware detection] is not ready for production. Then the methodology does not support that. It's "the approach of using AI agents for malware detection with next to zero documentation or guidance is not ready for production."
    - stared 8mo ago
      You can solve any problem with AI if you give enough hints. The question we asked is if they can solve a problem autonomously, with instructions that would be clear for a reverse engineering specialist. That say, I found these useful for many binary tasks - just not (yet) the end-to-end ones.
      - embedding-shape 8mo ago
        > The question we asked is if they can solve a problem autonomously What level of autonomy though? At one point some human have to fire them off, so already kind of shaky what that means here. What about providing a bunch of manuals in a directory and having "There are manuals in manuals/ you can browse to learn more." included in the prompt, if they get the hint, is that "autonomously"?
      - anamexis 8mo ago
        "With instructions that would be clear for a reverse engineering specialist" is a big caveat, though. It seems like an artificial restriction to add. With a longer and more detailed prompt (while still keeping the prompt completely non-specific to a particular type of malware/backdoor), the AI could most likely solve the problem autonomously much better.
    - decidu0us9034 8mo ago
      All the docs are already in its training data, wouldn't that just pollute the context? I think giving a model better/non-free tooling would help as mentioned. binja code mode can be useful but you definitely need to give these models a lot of babysitting and encouragement and their limitations shine with large binaries or functions. But sometimes if you have a lot to go through and just need some starting point to triage, false pos are fine.
      - anamexis 8mo ago
        > All the docs are already in its training data, wouldn't that just pollute the context? No - there is a reason that coding agents are constantly looking up docs from the web, even though they were presumably trained on that data. Having this information directly in context results in much higher fidelity than relying on the information embedded in the model.

by stared 8mo ago

botusaurus 8mo ago

have you tried stuffing a whole set of tutorials on how to use ghidra in the context, especially for the 1 mil token context like gemini?

stared 8mo ago
No. To give it a fair test, we didn't tinker with model-specific context-engineering. Adding skills, examples, etc is very likely to improve performance. So is any interactive feedback. Our example instruction is here: https://github.com/QuesmaOrg/BinaryAudit/blob/main/tasks/lighttpd-backdoor-detect-open/instruction.md https://github.com/QuesmaOrg/BinaryAudit/blob/main/tasks/lig...
- anamexis 8mo ago
  Why, though? That would make sense if you were just trying to do a comparative analysis of different agent's ability to use specific tools without context, but if your thesis is: > However, [the approach of using AI agents for malware detection] is not ready for production. Then the methodology does not support that. It's "the approach of using AI agents for malware detection with next to zero documentation or guidance is not ready for production."
  - stared 8mo ago
    You can solve any problem with AI if you give enough hints. The question we asked is if they can solve a problem autonomously, with instructions that would be clear for a reverse engineering specialist. That say, I found these useful for many binary tasks - just not (yet) the end-to-end ones.
    - embedding-shape 8mo ago
      > The question we asked is if they can solve a problem autonomously What level of autonomy though? At one point some human have to fire them off, so already kind of shaky what that means here. What about providing a bunch of manuals in a directory and having "There are manuals in manuals/ you can browse to learn more." included in the prompt, if they get the hint, is that "autonomously"?
    - anamexis 8mo ago
      "With instructions that would be clear for a reverse engineering specialist" is a big caveat, though. It seems like an artificial restriction to add. With a longer and more detailed prompt (while still keeping the prompt completely non-specific to a particular type of malware/backdoor), the AI could most likely solve the problem autonomously much better.
  - decidu0us9034 8mo ago
    All the docs are already in its training data, wouldn't that just pollute the context? I think giving a model better/non-free tooling would help as mentioned. binja code mode can be useful but you definitely need to give these models a lot of babysitting and encouragement and their limitations shine with large binaries or functions. But sometimes if you have a lot to go through and just need some starting point to triage, false pos are fine.
    - anamexis 8mo ago
      > All the docs are already in its training data, wouldn't that just pollute the context? No - there is a reason that coding agents are constantly looking up docs from the web, even though they were presumably trained on that data. Having this information directly in context results in much higher fidelity than relying on the information embedded in the model.