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> It is wise … to price well below cost push out other players forever I challenge you to name a single successful example of this that isn’t state enforced.

by abtinf 8mo ago

stingraycharles 8mo ago
Amazon?
- abtinf 8mo ago
  Amazon was wildly profitable on a unit cost basis from relatively early on. They didn’t show profits on paper because they reinvested everything into their capital buildout to reduce costs even more.
  - stingraycharles 8mo ago
    I thought Amazon was selling quite a few items at a loss to undercut competition early on?
    - ayewo 8mo ago
      They did in some instances, not all. A notable example where they ate $ millions in losses is the Diapers.com story [1] [2]. [1]: https://slate.com/technology/2013/10/amazon-book-how-jeff-bezos-went-thermonuclear-on-diapers-com.html https://slate.com/technology/2013/10/amazon-book-how-jeff-be... [2]: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/07/emails-detail-amazons-plan-to-crush-a-startup-rival-with-price-cuts/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/07/emails-detail-am...
api 8mo ago
All VC funded companies that release free or underpriced products and services, capture market share, then raise prices or enshittify? The entire business model of VC funded tech?
- abtinf 8mo ago
  Typically, VC funded firms are inventing new markets entirely. Simply overcoming startup capital costs is not the argument being made when folks claim dumping.
  - api 8mo ago
    They are? Most of what VC funded companies do has been done before at a smaller scale, often with less polish and at a higher price. VC money is used to scale up, cut costs with scale, capture markets, and then usually prices go up later depending on the economics. The Chinese state is basically just acting as a big VC fund for Chinese manufacturing industries. A VC fund with a sovereign currency and the ability to sustain burn-mode for decades. It doesn’t always work. There are some absurd examples of Chinese waste produced this way like “ghost cities.” But when it works it works, and at tremendous scale, and they can just dominate entire industries.
    - XorNot 8mo ago
      It's questionable whether the ghost cities truly exist though. I was under the impression they were a product of China's bizarre savings and investment market, and that a lot of them have since filled up?
      - vkou 8mo ago
        They were a product of forward-looking planning. Those cities were empty when built, but have since all filled up. Meanwhile in the west we don't build anything and then are surprised when we run into insane housing shortages.
neves 8mo ago
Uber

> It is wise … to price well below cost push out other players forever I challenge you to name a single successful example of this that isn’t state enforced.

by abtinf 8mo ago

> It is wise … to price well below cost push out other players forever I challenge you to name a single successful example of this that isn’t state enforced.

stingraycharles 8mo ago

Amazon?

abtinf 8mo ago
Amazon was wildly profitable on a unit cost basis from relatively early on. They didn’t show profits on paper because they reinvested everything into their capital buildout to reduce costs even more.
- stingraycharles 8mo ago
  I thought Amazon was selling quite a few items at a loss to undercut competition early on?
  - ayewo 8mo ago
    They did in some instances, not all. A notable example where they ate $ millions in losses is the Diapers.com story [1] [2]. [1]: https://slate.com/technology/2013/10/amazon-book-how-jeff-bezos-went-thermonuclear-on-diapers-com.html https://slate.com/technology/2013/10/amazon-book-how-jeff-be... [2]: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/07/emails-detail-amazons-plan-to-crush-a-startup-rival-with-price-cuts/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/07/emails-detail-am...

api 8mo ago

All VC funded companies that release free or underpriced products and services, capture market share, then raise prices or enshittify? The entire business model of VC funded tech?

abtinf 8mo ago
Typically, VC funded firms are inventing new markets entirely. Simply overcoming startup capital costs is not the argument being made when folks claim dumping.
- api 8mo ago
  They are? Most of what VC funded companies do has been done before at a smaller scale, often with less polish and at a higher price. VC money is used to scale up, cut costs with scale, capture markets, and then usually prices go up later depending on the economics. The Chinese state is basically just acting as a big VC fund for Chinese manufacturing industries. A VC fund with a sovereign currency and the ability to sustain burn-mode for decades. It doesn’t always work. There are some absurd examples of Chinese waste produced this way like “ghost cities.” But when it works it works, and at tremendous scale, and they can just dominate entire industries.
  - XorNot 8mo ago
    It's questionable whether the ghost cities truly exist though. I was under the impression they were a product of China's bizarre savings and investment market, and that a lot of them have since filled up?
    - vkou 8mo ago
      They were a product of forward-looking planning. Those cities were empty when built, but have since all filled up. Meanwhile in the west we don't build anything and then are surprised when we run into insane housing shortages.

neves 8mo ago

Uber