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The travel forms to visit the US ask if people have ever been involved in espionage, at least they did, I'm not aware that it's changed. You can guarantee the
by cs02rm0 8mo ago
The travel forms to visit the US ask if people have ever been involved in espionage, at least they did, I'm not aware that it's changed.
You can guarantee the many people who work for intelligence agencies of US allies aren't admitting to that when they travel to the US.
It's all a bit of a game.
- pbhjpbhj 8mo agoBut they're required by laws of their own country to lie, presumably. There are certainly game-like aspects.
- dcminter 8mo ago"Do you seek to engage in or have you ever engaged in terrorist activities, espionage, sabotage, or genocide?" Quite.
- binarymax 8mo agoThe reasoning for some of these questions is that if you are caught, it’s sometimes easier to charge you with fraud (lying on the form) than the actual thing (such as espionage).
- 4gotunameagain 8mo agoWouldn't they need the be able to prove that you are a spy in order to argue that you lied ? In which case who cares about the form ?
- stnikolauswagne 8mo agoThats why I presume its asking about previous engagements, if they catch someone they suspect of espionage, dig into their background and find proof of previous activity they have a clear fraud charge without having to prove their suspicions about current activities.
- xboxnolifes 8mo agoProving you worked for a spy agency is far easier than proving you did spying in actuality. Assuming you didn't get caught in the act.
- bigfatkitten 8mo agoThe fact you worked for an intelligence agency doesn’t mean you were an intelligence officer. You could’ve been a cleaner, or an executive assistant, or maybe you were working as a software developer on the payroll system.
- toast0 8mo agoThere's often also some arbitrage on standard of proof or statutes of limitation or jurisdiction. Maybe to deport you for espionage requires a jury trial, but to revoke status for misleading answers on an immigration form is administrative and so is deportation for lack of status. I seem to recall some extraordinary cases where untruthful answers on immigration forms were used to justify denaturalization.
- swiftcoder 8mo agoThose forms also ask if you've ever been a member of a communist party, and basically everyone over 35 in all of Eastern Europe would have to check that one (they don't, if they want to enter the US)
- selkin 8mo agoEvery statement in the above comment is wrong: People born in the 90s wouldn’t have a chance to be old enough to belong to any group other than a preschool before the collapse of the Soviet and Soviet aligned regimes. For those who were adults before 1990, while they may have been party members for reasons unrelated to political ideology, it wasn’t as common: in the late 80s, only ~10% of adults in Warsaw pact countries were communist party members. Far from “everyone”. And even if you check that in the DS-160 visa application form, you are allowed to add an explanation. Consular visa officers are very well familiar with the political situation at the countries they are stationed in, and can grant visa even if the box is checked.
- midtake 8mo agoDo you mean everyone who was 18 by 1989, or 55 today?
- swiftcoder 8mo agoYes, my sense of the passage of time is a little off. I've met folks who were members of the FDJ in East Germany as young teens, but as you say, they are 50-ish now.