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I think this is true, but oof that's a heavy list. For one thing, food, alcohol, drugs, and stimulants, all have addictive properties that are almost certainly

I think this is true, but oof that's a heavy list. For one thing, food, alcohol, drugs, and stimulants, all have addictive properties that are almost certainly comorbid with depression. Dropping those is rough. Exercise is perhaps one of the easier ones but, personally, I've found it incredible to reflect on how absolutely bad my childhood "gym" classes were. At no point did we actually... go to a gym. That was never normalized for us. We sort of just learned how to do jumping jacks when we were told to, that sort of thing, and it was all structured for us. There was no habit forming, no "how to do this once there's no one around to structure it for you". In my experience, people who go to the gym get "brought in" by someone in their life who can help them build that structure. For someone missing it, well, you're truly on your own in a rather stressful environment. Sleep hygiene is good but, again, I suspect tricky here. Regular social interactions, another heavy lift! What do you do to build up a network of people in your life? Social structures don't just magically appear, and once again, they're usually just handed to you for most of your life and once those fall away you're in quite a spot trying to recover or build anew. I think the environmental stressors may be the roughest, hard to say. Eliminating financial stress is something that can take decades. Noise pollution? That's really quite out of my control. All of these are great things to work on but I suppose my read of them is "wow, being depressed seems really fucking hard if you have to do these things to get out of it".

joe_mamba 7mo ago
> "wow, being depressed seems really fucking hard if you have to do these things to get out of it". Yeah IT IS hard, I didn't say it's easy, I just said what you need to not be depressed. Whether everyone can get all those is another issue. The thing is that in the case when you don't have all of these, adding unhealthy habits on top, doesn't make your situation better.
- staticassertion 7mo ago
  Yes, sorry, I think other posts are quite critical of yours so maybe you think this was me trying to be like "your post is bad". I think you're right (though I think that medication and therapy are often critical to help kickstart healthier habits, and it's worth noting how heavy a lift those things are), but it is just notable to me how hard those things are. I am not depressed, thankfully, because if I had to rebuild a social life or go to the gym to fix myself I'd be fucked.
_cenw 7mo ago
Our entire economic system is built on inducing financial stress.
weatherlite 7mo ago
> At no point did we actually... go to a gym You really don't have to go to a gym if you don't like it , or do something "hard" that many people dislike like running. You can simply walk briskly for 150 minutes a week (which is the recommended dose, and which 80% of Americans and other Westerners don't meet). That is time outside (vitamin D) + moving your entire body - less chronic pain, better joints, better bones etc. I think even this alone without resistance training (which is important) could be enough to help most people with morbidities and depression. Our machine is simply not meant to remain stationary all day and be bombarded with social media and TV, there's no wonder neurosis is off the charts.
- joe_mamba 7mo ago
  >You really don't have to go to a gym if you don't like it ... You can simply walk briskly for 150 minutes a week I don't like flossing and brushing my teeth either, but yet I still do it regularly. In fact, I never met anyone who brushes they teeth out of enjoyment, but out of habit. Similarly, the habit of exercise(and other health related activities) needs to be cultivated, you don't have to like it, you just do it because it's what's best for you. If you take no accountability over your own actions and agency and expect life is about doing only the things you enjoy, then no amount of SSRIs or expensive therapy sessions will fix this.
  - weatherlite 7mo ago
    I'm with you up to a point. If you have time watch Dr Liberman's video about why people resist exercise so much despite wanting to do it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vzS7-MtObo& https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vzS7-MtObo& There's nothing new here, we all know this, but he brings the point home very well. I think brisk walking is within the realm of possibilites for most people. Running and lifting - idk. I personally love it but so many people I know have such a huge psychological resistance to doing it. So I say lets get people to at least walk!
    - joe_mamba 7mo ago
      >why people resist exercise so much despite wanting to do it: I don't need to watch a video, I can just do introspection and I know why I resit exercise. In fact, most people will watch the self help videos and learn the exact same things they already knew, if only they'd be honest with themselves about their issue and not try to avoid accountability. But it's easier to accept things when a professional specialist tells them to you, often for money. The problem is many people want for someone to tell them that the issues they have are not their fault, so they can feel better about not doing anything to improve their situation. > I think brisk walking is within the realm of possibilites for most people. Walks are good except when you live in a concrete hellhole full with busy traffic. That's why I avoid telling people exactly what exercise they should do, as that depends on their health, location, financial situation and lifestyle.

joe_mamba 7mo ago

> "wow, being depressed seems really fucking hard if you have to do these things to get out of it". Yeah IT IS hard, I didn't say it's easy, I just said what you need to not be depressed. Whether everyone can get all those is another issue. The thing is that in the case when you don't have all of these, adding unhealthy habits on top, doesn't make your situation better.

staticassertion 7mo ago
Yes, sorry, I think other posts are quite critical of yours so maybe you think this was me trying to be like "your post is bad". I think you're right (though I think that medication and therapy are often critical to help kickstart healthier habits, and it's worth noting how heavy a lift those things are), but it is just notable to me how hard those things are. I am not depressed, thankfully, because if I had to rebuild a social life or go to the gym to fix myself I'd be fucked.

_cenw 7mo ago

Our entire economic system is built on inducing financial stress.

weatherlite 7mo ago

> At no point did we actually... go to a gym You really don't have to go to a gym if you don't like it , or do something "hard" that many people dislike like running. You can simply walk briskly for 150 minutes a week (which is the recommended dose, and which 80% of Americans and other Westerners don't meet). That is time outside (vitamin D) + moving your entire body - less chronic pain, better joints, better bones etc. I think even this alone without resistance training (which is important) could be enough to help most people with morbidities and depression. Our machine is simply not meant to remain stationary all day and be bombarded with social media and TV, there's no wonder neurosis is off the charts.

joe_mamba 7mo ago
>You really don't have to go to a gym if you don't like it ... You can simply walk briskly for 150 minutes a week I don't like flossing and brushing my teeth either, but yet I still do it regularly. In fact, I never met anyone who brushes they teeth out of enjoyment, but out of habit. Similarly, the habit of exercise(and other health related activities) needs to be cultivated, you don't have to like it, you just do it because it's what's best for you. If you take no accountability over your own actions and agency and expect life is about doing only the things you enjoy, then no amount of SSRIs or expensive therapy sessions will fix this.
- weatherlite 7mo ago
  I'm with you up to a point. If you have time watch Dr Liberman's video about why people resist exercise so much despite wanting to do it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vzS7-MtObo& https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vzS7-MtObo& There's nothing new here, we all know this, but he brings the point home very well. I think brisk walking is within the realm of possibilites for most people. Running and lifting - idk. I personally love it but so many people I know have such a huge psychological resistance to doing it. So I say lets get people to at least walk!
  - joe_mamba 7mo ago
    >why people resist exercise so much despite wanting to do it: I don't need to watch a video, I can just do introspection and I know why I resit exercise. In fact, most people will watch the self help videos and learn the exact same things they already knew, if only they'd be honest with themselves about their issue and not try to avoid accountability. But it's easier to accept things when a professional specialist tells them to you, often for money. The problem is many people want for someone to tell them that the issues they have are not their fault, so they can feel better about not doing anything to improve their situation. > I think brisk walking is within the realm of possibilites for most people. Walks are good except when you live in a concrete hellhole full with busy traffic. That's why I avoid telling people exactly what exercise they should do, as that depends on their health, location, financial situation and lifestyle.