9 ms·

Great post, I did a similar switch mid last year. Hetzner was something I already used, so I just doubled down. I have a single OVH instance where I ma playing

Great post, I did a similar switch mid last year. Hetzner was something I already used, so I just doubled down. I have a single OVH instance where I ma playing with Openclaw, but that was because I was having issues with Hetzner that day on their new instance page (was fixed the next day) I use Bunny for my CDN, I just wish they have the capabilityt to route IPv4 and IPv6 traffic to IPv6 only origins. If your origin doesn't have IPv4, it wont route IPv4 to an IPv6 origin. Something Cloudflare could do. Still a shame its not a high priority. For Domains, I am still on porkbun, but i have like 20 domains, and moving them to EU registrars would be pricey. I will do it, just not looking forward to it. Also there are few registrars tht handle all the TLDs i have, nothing like Porkbun. I use dot.bs to optimize my registrars and keep track of them. I self-host a lot, but I haven't done github. I have a Forgejo instance with working CI/CD, but there are some painpoints mirroring 100s of repos and updating PATs. Also I minimize how much critical infra I host. I do it as my day job. Don't want to do it so much at home, and I still do some between NAS and self-hosted services I do run. I do plan to try out Hanko and Nebius, those sound good. and Hit up scaleway to see if there is stuff I want to use there. I know Scaleway can be pricey.

the_duke 8mo ago
[flagged]
- willy__ 8mo ago
  Do you have a source for this? First time I am hearing about that one. The German hosting CEO circle is pretty intimate and I gathered that Martin Hetzner is still around.
- Daegalus 8mo ago
  Uhh, can I get a source on this? I can not find a single mention of this anywhere and it seems the company is still independent and German.
- ahartmetz 8mo ago
  I don't find anything about that - I think it's not true.
- rollulus 8mo ago
  [citation needed]
- notsylver 8mo ago
  You might be confused with their new-ish US datacenter? Hetzner is still European-owned.
- rrr_oh_man 8mo ago
  No. This is not true. Hetzner is fully owned by a German company. https://www.northdata.de/Hetzner+Online+GmbH,+Gunzenhausen/Amtsgericht+Ansbach+HRB+6089 https://www.northdata.de/Hetzner+Online+GmbH,+Gunzenhausen/A... And it wasn't true in 2022. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33864111 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33864111
- palata 8mo ago
  Pretty sure this is wrong. On their website [1], the "about us" page mentions a GmbH and an Oy - Hetzner Online GmbH, Germany - Hetzner Finland Oy, Finland [1]: https://www.hetzner.com/unternehmen/ueber-uns/ https://www.hetzner.com/unternehmen/ueber-uns/
- Aldipower 8mo ago
  This is simply incorrect.
dddw 8mo ago
For domains i find Openprovider.eu is pretty cheap imo, especially if you have a lot and buy in a package it is nearly costprice. Their DNS isn't great though, good enough for personal projects but not for business, would set that somewhere else.
- Daegalus 8mo ago
  Hmm, seems the good prices is only if you subscribe to their subscription. 5 euro a month or 50 euro a year, then the prices get slashed. Othewise their prices are expensive.
  - cge 7mo ago
    Yes, comparing to Porkbun for .com and .net, it looks like you'd need at least around 10 domains before it became cost effective (the .org price there says it is time limited and I think does not reflect recent .org price increases). There's also the matter that, ethically, openprovider seems to be heavily focusing on domain name speculators as clients; that may be a business many people would not want to support, and their services for people actually using their domains may be poor.
    - jhogervorst 7mo ago
      > There's also the matter that, ethically, openprovider seems to be heavily focusing on domain name speculators as clients Do you have more info about that? I'm a customer of them and didn't know this. I actually noticed that quite a lot of (smaller) hosting providers are also customers of Openprovider. (When transferring some domains from other providers to my account as Openprovider, they turned out to be internal transfers.) So I'm a bit surprised about it.
- jhogervorst 7mo ago
  Agree! If you have a number of domains and can justify a membership, they Openprovider (NL) is a good option. Some foreign extensions are quite expensive though. I happened to be looking into that yesterday, and Netim (FR) seems to be a good option for that. For the two extensions I need, they were among the cheapest with renewals.
sixtyj 8mo ago
For CDN, you can try CDN77, they have servers all around the world. No affil, just they are based in Europe (Prague) :)
- Daegalus 8mo ago
  Right now, I would only switch from Bunny if they allow IPv6-only origin servers and route IPv4 traffic to it. Also no pricing and a "Talk to sales" only link. Which usually means super expensive, or B2B only. I pay like 10 cents a month on Bunny something
  - Sammi 7mo ago
    Ah yeah I see CDN77 has no signup button and just says "Talk to sales" instead. That's not helpful to small self hosters.
    - b112 7mo ago
      Even for big corp. When I see "talk to sales" I just move on. I don't have time to waste on that.
throwaway772549 7mo ago
How has your experience with Bunny been? I'm quite split on it. I used to work for a business in a pretty competitive area, where tactics like fake DMCA requests and abuse cases are routinely used to attempt to take down information, be it from Google, or from the CDN/hosting provider. While at first Bunny support seemed understanding of it, later they unceremoniously blocked the account on the basis of too many complaints having been filed, despite all of them being responded to in due time and being proven false. OTOH, their support staff would respond lightning-fast, which was a breath of fresh air compared to other CDNs we used before. I could see myself using Bunny for personal projects, or some non-vital business, but probably not for anything with lots of competition.
- r_lee 7mo ago
  it's a super cheap "CDN" that runs on Hetzner and random hosts or their colo, it's not as proper as the other ones. for anything DMCA heavy maybe just buying dedicated servers or something instead could work?
  - deleted 7mo ago
    [deleted]
  - throwaway772549 7mo ago
    We used to expose the dedicated servers directly (i.e. no CDN at all), and while that was fine latency-wise, the lack of DDoS protection was really the limiting factor. E.g. Hetzner will just blackhole your subnet if you get DDoSed. It feels rather unviable nowadays to run a business without some CDN/DDoS protection service in front of your website.
    - r_lee 7mo ago
      yeah, but dealing with DDoS is easier in terms of DMCA unlike with CDNs because it's you hosting it, not the service provider (this is how Cloudflare avoids DMCA when you cache with them iirc) so if you can just find a good dedicated server provider that won't cut you off, maybe that's a potential solution? just my 2 cents though
chb 7mo ago
How does dot.bs make money? The about page and FAQ don’t explain what they’re monetizing.
- Daegalus 7mo ago
  Why would it need to make money, it's just a registry of information and a small about page with a list of entries. It probably runs on sqlite on a single $5 VM. Or a single db. Other than that, maybe ads
  - matteocontrini 7mo ago
    Because they also offer free DNS and email. There are no ads.
    - Daegalus 7mo ago
      It looks like DNS is just shared CloudDNS, and email is limited. From the FAQ: How reliable is dot.bs DNS hosting? dot.bs is backed by ClouDNS. ClouDNS serves over two billion DNS queries per day, so I can confidently say your DNS is in good hands. Do I really get free email? Yes! In order to make this possible, there are some limitations. A maximum of 5 email accounts per domain (unlimited domains) A maximum of 5 outgoing emails per hour, per account (to prevent spammers) A maximum of 75 MB storage per account If these limits are a problem for you, please reach out and we can figure something out.
grokx 7mo ago
Like the author, we self-host our git repos at work with Gitea, and it's working very well and brings a rather large set of features you'd expect from a GH alternative. A great thing is that it's almost fully compatible with Github actions, so migrating an existing CI/CD should not be too painful. If you plan to move, make sure to read this first: https://docs.gitea.com/usage/actions/comparison#missing-features https://docs.gitea.com/usage/actions/comparison#missing-feat... For sure, it requires a bit of maintenance, mainly for updates, but that's all.
- huijzer 7mo ago
  Same can be said for Forgejo but then it’s not VC backed
- rhdunn 7mo ago
  I'm using gitolite + cgit for local repositories. I tried Gitea for a while but didn't like the forced user/repo flat structure inherited from being a GitHub clone, and didn't need the additional features that Gitea/Forgejo provide.
indigodaddy 7mo ago
Why do you need to move from Porkbun though? I don't get it.
- 0123456789ABCDE 7mo ago
  gp, like OP, are moving away from USA based infrastructure. you ca see this on the footer of porkbun.com: > Made in the USA
- Daegalus 7mo ago
  Porkbun is based in Portland, Oregon, USA. I'm trying to move my infra to EU only stuff. It was fine when I lived near Bellevue, Washington. And I did live 30 years in the US but I want to divest myself from that shitshow.
  - indigodaddy 7mo ago
    Right, I guess it only makes a difference if you use their DNS? Otherwise, registrar being in US vs EU makes zero difference in terms of speed/latency etc. Is this just an ethical or political thing that you want to be out of USA?
    - Daegalus 7mo ago
      Mostly political, the other stuff makes more sense, domains are mostly a nice to have. And for .com, .org, and .net those are owned by ICANN which is US controlled anyway.
wolfhumble 7mo ago
> For Domains, I am still on porkbun, but i have like 20 domains, and moving them to EU registrars would be pricey. I will do it, just not looking forward to it. Also there are few registrars tht handle all the TLDs i have, nothing like Porkbun. For .com domains, if the rationale is data sovereignty, GDPR simplicity, avoiding dependence on a handful of American hyperscalers, then from an operational standpoint I don’t see much value in using European-based registrars. Ultimately, these domains remain under U.S. control regardless. If the focus is 'stubbornness' [one of the points in the article], then of course you have other priorities. Personally I am all for data sovereignty etc, but very seldom for country boycotts.
chias 7mo ago
From a practical standpoint, would you consider "Google Germany GmbH" to essentially be just a reference to Google, beholden to everything that matters to Alphabet headquartered in the United States? If so, Nebius is just a fancy name for Yandex, beholden to everything that matters to Yandex LLC headquartered in Russia. They just chose a distinctly different name, presumably to avoid the association. When we were doing a deep-dive into cloud GPU providers, legal counsel veto'd them for this reason.

the_duke 8mo ago

[flagged]

willy__ 8mo ago
Do you have a source for this? First time I am hearing about that one. The German hosting CEO circle is pretty intimate and I gathered that Martin Hetzner is still around.
Daegalus 8mo ago
Uhh, can I get a source on this? I can not find a single mention of this anywhere and it seems the company is still independent and German.
ahartmetz 8mo ago
I don't find anything about that - I think it's not true.
rollulus 8mo ago
[citation needed]
notsylver 8mo ago
You might be confused with their new-ish US datacenter? Hetzner is still European-owned.
rrr_oh_man 8mo ago
No. This is not true. Hetzner is fully owned by a German company. https://www.northdata.de/Hetzner+Online+GmbH,+Gunzenhausen/Amtsgericht+Ansbach+HRB+6089 https://www.northdata.de/Hetzner+Online+GmbH,+Gunzenhausen/A... And it wasn't true in 2022. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33864111 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33864111
palata 8mo ago
Pretty sure this is wrong. On their website [1], the "about us" page mentions a GmbH and an Oy - Hetzner Online GmbH, Germany - Hetzner Finland Oy, Finland [1]: https://www.hetzner.com/unternehmen/ueber-uns/ https://www.hetzner.com/unternehmen/ueber-uns/
Aldipower 8mo ago
This is simply incorrect.

dddw 8mo ago

For domains i find Openprovider.eu is pretty cheap imo, especially if you have a lot and buy in a package it is nearly costprice. Their DNS isn't great though, good enough for personal projects but not for business, would set that somewhere else.

Daegalus 8mo ago
Hmm, seems the good prices is only if you subscribe to their subscription. 5 euro a month or 50 euro a year, then the prices get slashed. Othewise their prices are expensive.
- cge 7mo ago
  Yes, comparing to Porkbun for .com and .net, it looks like you'd need at least around 10 domains before it became cost effective (the .org price there says it is time limited and I think does not reflect recent .org price increases). There's also the matter that, ethically, openprovider seems to be heavily focusing on domain name speculators as clients; that may be a business many people would not want to support, and their services for people actually using their domains may be poor.
  - jhogervorst 7mo ago
    > There's also the matter that, ethically, openprovider seems to be heavily focusing on domain name speculators as clients Do you have more info about that? I'm a customer of them and didn't know this. I actually noticed that quite a lot of (smaller) hosting providers are also customers of Openprovider. (When transferring some domains from other providers to my account as Openprovider, they turned out to be internal transfers.) So I'm a bit surprised about it.
jhogervorst 7mo ago
Agree! If you have a number of domains and can justify a membership, they Openprovider (NL) is a good option. Some foreign extensions are quite expensive though. I happened to be looking into that yesterday, and Netim (FR) seems to be a good option for that. For the two extensions I need, they were among the cheapest with renewals.

sixtyj 8mo ago

For CDN, you can try CDN77, they have servers all around the world. No affil, just they are based in Europe (Prague) :)

Daegalus 8mo ago
Right now, I would only switch from Bunny if they allow IPv6-only origin servers and route IPv4 traffic to it. Also no pricing and a "Talk to sales" only link. Which usually means super expensive, or B2B only. I pay like 10 cents a month on Bunny something
- Sammi 7mo ago
  Ah yeah I see CDN77 has no signup button and just says "Talk to sales" instead. That's not helpful to small self hosters.
  - b112 7mo ago
    Even for big corp. When I see "talk to sales" I just move on. I don't have time to waste on that.

throwaway772549 7mo ago

How has your experience with Bunny been? I'm quite split on it. I used to work for a business in a pretty competitive area, where tactics like fake DMCA requests and abuse cases are routinely used to attempt to take down information, be it from Google, or from the CDN/hosting provider. While at first Bunny support seemed understanding of it, later they unceremoniously blocked the account on the basis of too many complaints having been filed, despite all of them being responded to in due time and being proven false. OTOH, their support staff would respond lightning-fast, which was a breath of fresh air compared to other CDNs we used before. I could see myself using Bunny for personal projects, or some non-vital business, but probably not for anything with lots of competition.

r_lee 7mo ago
it's a super cheap "CDN" that runs on Hetzner and random hosts or their colo, it's not as proper as the other ones. for anything DMCA heavy maybe just buying dedicated servers or something instead could work?
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
- throwaway772549 7mo ago
  We used to expose the dedicated servers directly (i.e. no CDN at all), and while that was fine latency-wise, the lack of DDoS protection was really the limiting factor. E.g. Hetzner will just blackhole your subnet if you get DDoSed. It feels rather unviable nowadays to run a business without some CDN/DDoS protection service in front of your website.
  - r_lee 7mo ago
    yeah, but dealing with DDoS is easier in terms of DMCA unlike with CDNs because it's you hosting it, not the service provider (this is how Cloudflare avoids DMCA when you cache with them iirc) so if you can just find a good dedicated server provider that won't cut you off, maybe that's a potential solution? just my 2 cents though

chb 7mo ago

How does dot.bs make money? The about page and FAQ don’t explain what they’re monetizing.

Daegalus 7mo ago
Why would it need to make money, it's just a registry of information and a small about page with a list of entries. It probably runs on sqlite on a single $5 VM. Or a single db. Other than that, maybe ads
- matteocontrini 7mo ago
  Because they also offer free DNS and email. There are no ads.
  - Daegalus 7mo ago
    It looks like DNS is just shared CloudDNS, and email is limited. From the FAQ: How reliable is dot.bs DNS hosting? dot.bs is backed by ClouDNS. ClouDNS serves over two billion DNS queries per day, so I can confidently say your DNS is in good hands. Do I really get free email? Yes! In order to make this possible, there are some limitations. A maximum of 5 email accounts per domain (unlimited domains) A maximum of 5 outgoing emails per hour, per account (to prevent spammers) A maximum of 75 MB storage per account If these limits are a problem for you, please reach out and we can figure something out.

grokx 7mo ago

Like the author, we self-host our git repos at work with Gitea, and it's working very well and brings a rather large set of features you'd expect from a GH alternative. A great thing is that it's almost fully compatible with Github actions, so migrating an existing CI/CD should not be too painful. If you plan to move, make sure to read this first: https://docs.gitea.com/usage/actions/comparison#missing-features https://docs.gitea.com/usage/actions/comparison#missing-feat... For sure, it requires a bit of maintenance, mainly for updates, but that's all.

huijzer 7mo ago
Same can be said for Forgejo but then it’s not VC backed
rhdunn 7mo ago
I'm using gitolite + cgit for local repositories. I tried Gitea for a while but didn't like the forced user/repo flat structure inherited from being a GitHub clone, and didn't need the additional features that Gitea/Forgejo provide.

indigodaddy 7mo ago

Why do you need to move from Porkbun though? I don't get it.

0123456789ABCDE 7mo ago
gp, like OP, are moving away from USA based infrastructure. you ca see this on the footer of porkbun.com: > Made in the USA
Daegalus 7mo ago
Porkbun is based in Portland, Oregon, USA. I'm trying to move my infra to EU only stuff. It was fine when I lived near Bellevue, Washington. And I did live 30 years in the US but I want to divest myself from that shitshow.
- indigodaddy 7mo ago
  Right, I guess it only makes a difference if you use their DNS? Otherwise, registrar being in US vs EU makes zero difference in terms of speed/latency etc. Is this just an ethical or political thing that you want to be out of USA?
  - Daegalus 7mo ago
    Mostly political, the other stuff makes more sense, domains are mostly a nice to have. And for .com, .org, and .net those are owned by ICANN which is US controlled anyway.

wolfhumble 7mo ago

> For Domains, I am still on porkbun, but i have like 20 domains, and moving them to EU registrars would be pricey. I will do it, just not looking forward to it. Also there are few registrars tht handle all the TLDs i have, nothing like Porkbun. For .com domains, if the rationale is data sovereignty, GDPR simplicity, avoiding dependence on a handful of American hyperscalers, then from an operational standpoint I don’t see much value in using European-based registrars. Ultimately, these domains remain under U.S. control regardless. If the focus is 'stubbornness' [one of the points in the article], then of course you have other priorities. Personally I am all for data sovereignty etc, but very seldom for country boycotts.

chias 7mo ago

From a practical standpoint, would you consider "Google Germany GmbH" to essentially be just a reference to Google, beholden to everything that matters to Alphabet headquartered in the United States? If so, Nebius is just a fancy name for Yandex, beholden to everything that matters to Yandex LLC headquartered in Russia. They just chose a distinctly different name, presumably to avoid the association. When we were doing a deep-dive into cloud GPU providers, legal counsel veto'd them for this reason.