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Not a bad choice... since Minecraft Java edition only supports desktops, they don't have to deal with the abysmal Vulkan drivers on mobile. Though I thought a
by cyber_kinetist 8mo ago
Not a bad choice... since Minecraft Java edition only supports desktops, they don't have to deal with the abysmal Vulkan drivers on mobile.
Though I thought a company large as Microsoft would have the resources to build a cross-platform RHI with the most stable API available for each platform (DX12 for Windows and Metal for macOS)...
- pdpi 8mo agoA company as large as Microsoft has resources to do a lot of things, but you’re not borrowing resources from the Office team to help on this project. The relevant measurement is the resources Mojang has as a studio. And I expect the decision here is that they don’t want to commit to the long term maintenance of three renderer implementations on the Java side. Another concern is that modding is a major part of why Java Edition is so popular, and that includes shaders specifically. This is already going to cause chaos in the modding world as it is, no need to compound that by making shader mods that much more burdensome to maintain.
- norman784 8mo agoTBH Mojang should have the resources to do that on his own, Minecraft is the best selling game of all times btw.
- Pay08 8mo agoI imagine it's far from the best-earning, though. It's a one-time purchase.
- galkk 8mo agoYou need subscription for multiplayer
- oliwarner 8mo agoI don't think that's right. A Realms sub gives you a private server to play on but you don't need that. You can host your own for free.
- dbetteridge 8mo agoNah, only if you're not willing to self host. I run a 6 person server on an Intel NUC, without major issue.
- bonesss 8mo agoSkins, media packs, servers, hosted realms, upsales through all consoles, multiple copies for multiplayer with/between your kids… also a mass revolving shit tumbler of account stuff on the backend that invalidated lots of old accounts… I bought during the beta for a lifetime of goodies, had to buy it again after the buyout, then again after an update to MS accounts wasn’t acted on, and then for the Switch. I’ve bought Minecraft 4 times, with another on the horizon if it keeps popular.
- asddubs 8mo agoall of that except realms is bedrock edition, not the java one. I'm honestly pleasantly surprised they haven't killed the java version
- Telaneo 8mo agoThat was probably their intention, but Bedrock has proven to be full of papercut sized bugs, and maintaining 1:1 behaviour with Java has also proven really difficult. Redstone is notably different/broken with the exception of trivial circuits. Until it's possible to convert your world to Bedrock and not have anything in your 'finished' world break, except maybe some giant Redstone machine or one or two known annoyanced, I doubt they'd do it. Mojang presumably still has some autonomy within Microsoft so long as the money keeps coming in, and Mojang presumably knows that pushing this too early is a bad idea. But Microsoft being Microslop, who knows, maybe they'll just do it anyway.
- Pay08 8mo agoI don't think 1:1 behaviour with Java was ever the intent. Redstone works differently due to a combination of different design choices, like not breaking in water (although I can imagine that being an accessibility thing for console players) and less technical debt, making things like movable tile entities possible.
- Pay08 8mo agoI don't know what you mean by media packs, but the server software is free, and I believe all of the skins and maps released by Mojang itself on Bedrock's marketplace are also free. It's the third-party stuff that costs money, although I assume Mojang takes their cut.
- Jean-Papoulos 8mo agoThey do have a bunch of add-ons now with Realms notably, but I wonder if this revenue goes to Mojang or to another Microsoft branch for tax reasons. To say nothing of derived media, plushies, Legos etc.
- Pay08 8mo agoFair, I completely forgot about Realms. I didn't know you could buy addons for them, though.
- npodbielski 8mo agoMy kids have minecraft caps, tshirts, pants, pajamas, hoodies, lego, pencils, toys and probably other 100 things I do not remember right now So no. It is not one time purchase.
- pdpi 8mo agoYou don't buy in-game money like GTA5, sure. Then again, you'll never see a group of pre-schoolers wearing GTA5 hoodies and hats and backpacks, and you can't watch the GTA film in cinemas.
- ieie3366 8mo agoMinecraft is extremely mismanaged, the fact that the java version is still the ”main” version after all these years is just crazy
- barrkel 8mo agoWhy is it crazy? Any rewrite that would be as flexible wrt mods would be shaped similarly.
- willis936 8mo agoJava garbage collection gets out of control when cramming 100+ poorly optimized mods together. The bedrock edition is great in theory but the proper mod API never appeared. Regardless, people have accomplished some really impressive stuff with commands, but it is an exercise in pain. The other issue with bedrock is it is far from feature parity with java. If these two things were hit then java could be reasonably retired. However we are decades too late in it being acceptable to introduce a breaking change to mod loading. So it's java forever.
- le-mark 8mo agoI always had trouble running bedrock as a household server. Specifically it would stop accepting connections and required daily restarts. Java was much more reliable.
- cogman10 8mo agoJava garbage collection is what's allowing those 100+ poorly optimize mods to be functional at the same time in the first place. Games with robust modding will almost always feature a garbage collected language which is what's primarily used for the modding. Consider this, if the mod interface was C/C++, do you think those poorly optimized mods could be trusted to also not leak memory?
- aleph_minus_one 8mo ago> Consider this, if the mod interface was C/C++, do you think those poorly optimized mods could be trusted to also not leak memory? Garbage collection does not solve memory leak problems. For example - keeping a reference too long, - much more subtle: having a reference to some object inside some closure will also cause memory leaks in a garbage-collected language. The proper solution is to consider what you name "poorly optimized mods" to be highly experimental (only those who are of very high quality can be treated differently).
- ozarkerD 8mo agoThey use bgfx for bedrock edition. https://github.com/bkaradzic/bgfx https://github.com/bkaradzic/bgfx https://www.minecraft.net/en-us/attribution https://www.minecraft.net/en-us/attribution
- Imustaskforhelp 8mo agoThis is such a gold mine project! thanks for sharing it. I suppose, if someone in future might want to create their own godot-alternative. Why not just use bgfx with the language bindings instead. I Love Godot from my time tinkering with it but one of the reasons why Godot is so hopeful in future compared to other engines is imo the fact that they support many many platforms. I have seen some blogposts on HN where someone used godot to prototype an android GUI application (and not a game) and how the whole process actually makes sense when you think about where they talked about it in the blog post. Actually there were discussions about even integrating bgfx into raylib (the goat) but looks like that its not getting integrated but it was interesting to read the discussion and maybe anyone more experienced than me could even contribute to the discussion below https://github.com/raysan5/raylib/discussions/1699 https://github.com/raysan5/raylib/discussions/1699
- nnevatie 8mo ago> Why not just use bgfx with the language bindings instead. For me the biggest obstacle would be the weird build system the project insists on using.
- debugnik 8mo agoAn aside, but out of five links for Java edition one is 404 and the next one is an HTTP-only site seemingly not updated since 2009. Funny to contrast with Bedrock edition, for which they paid for FMOD Studio to cover the audio features of those two (and more).
- Svoka 8mo agoHonestly pick between Vulkan and DX12 is very superficial. But you can easily make Vulkan run on macOS. Not sure what would be the reason to use DX12 in the new project today given free choice of technology, especially when team comes from OpenGL.
- Negitivefrags 8mo agoThe reason you use DX12 in a new project is so that you can get good linux support. I'm making a joke, but it's also true.
- maxloh 8mo agoHow good does Wine support DX12?
- Negitivefrags 8mo agoSupport for DX12 under Proton in linux is incredibly good. Some games actually run faster under DX12 in Proton than the native versions do.
- literallywho 8mo agoI don't think it's faster than a windows game running Vulkan, though, is it? Like, if you benchmarked a game that has native DX12 and Vulkan modes (such as Wolfenstein: The New Colossus, I believe), it will probably have higher FPS in Vulkan mode, right?
- Negitivefrags 8mo agoWell our game runs faster in DX12 under Proton than Vulkan under Proton. Of course since Proton uses Vulkan to implement DX12, it means that our Vulkan implementation is simply worse than the one that Valve created to emulate DX12. I'm sure it's possible to improve that, but it implies that there way to get the best performance out of Vulkan is less obvious than the way to get it out of DX12.
- charcircuit 8mo agoOn mobile 3rd party launchers use ANGLE to use EGL or Metal drivers.