2 ms·

> You would have to really strain even to call Zuckerberg's statement a statement of fact, and the factual elements are just "we invest [an amount]" and "we do

> You would have to really strain even to call Zuckerberg's statement a statement of fact, and the factual elements are just "we invest [an amount]" and "we do [efforts]". You think such a weak claim is still a strain? That's the weakest possible factual interpretation. But I don't think we should ignore "so much [...] to make sure" or "industry leading". If there was nobody prioritizing teen safety, or if that team had no power while teams targeting teens had power, then his statement was a lie. It's not just an opinion over whether the end result was shoddy.

thaumasiotes 9mo ago
> But I don't think we should ignore "so much [...] to make sure" or "industry leading". You're wrong; one is tautologous and the other is clearly non-factual. More specifically, if you say "that's why we do so much to make sure [that xxx...]", the literal meaning of "so much" is "as much as we do" - the claim can never be false. Meanwhile, "industry leading" is puffery.
- Dylan16807 9mo ago
  Being nonspecific is not a tautology. "so much" has a minimum to not be a lie. Is it still puffery when there are objective measurements and you're not anywhere near leader? Well when you're testifying to congress and you puff that hard I think you should be punished regardless of definitions.
  - thaumasiotes 9mo ago
    > "so much" has a minimum to not be a lie. Seriously, "so much" means nothing other than "that amount, whatever it might be". That is the meaning of "so" - it refers to the context. You can wish as hard as you want, but you won't change the meaning of common English words. Compare Merriam-Webster's gloss for so much: > by the amount indicated or suggested https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/so%20much https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/so%20much
    - Dylan16807 9mo ago
      It refers to context. That's not the same as meaning nothing or being a tautology. In context, it can be a lie. He indicated an amount that was not just "insert any number".

thaumasiotes 9mo ago

> But I don't think we should ignore "so much [...] to make sure" or "industry leading". You're wrong; one is tautologous and the other is clearly non-factual. More specifically, if you say "that's why we do so much to make sure [that xxx...]", the literal meaning of "so much" is "as much as we do" - the claim can never be false. Meanwhile, "industry leading" is puffery.

Dylan16807 9mo ago
Being nonspecific is not a tautology. "so much" has a minimum to not be a lie. Is it still puffery when there are objective measurements and you're not anywhere near leader? Well when you're testifying to congress and you puff that hard I think you should be punished regardless of definitions.
- thaumasiotes 9mo ago
  > "so much" has a minimum to not be a lie. Seriously, "so much" means nothing other than "that amount, whatever it might be". That is the meaning of "so" - it refers to the context. You can wish as hard as you want, but you won't change the meaning of common English words. Compare Merriam-Webster's gloss for so much: > by the amount indicated or suggested https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/so%20much https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/so%20much
  - Dylan16807 9mo ago
    It refers to context. That's not the same as meaning nothing or being a tautology. In context, it can be a lie. He indicated an amount that was not just "insert any number".