5 ms·

Emulation is legal in the US

by kg 8mo ago

tombert 8mo ago
For now at least. Given Nintendo's efforts to get rid of Yuzu and Ryujinx I think it's likely that the legal days may be numbered. All they have to do is get it in front of the right judge(s) and the precedent by the Connectix and the Bleem lawsuits is undone. Not that I particularly care if it's legal; I seriously doubt anyone is going to break into my house to seize my MiSTer as contraband, but I think it's entirely possible that emulation progress stalls because it's forced to move into the shadows.
- dcrazy 8mo ago
  Nintendo was able to pressure RyujinX because it relied on stolen code.
  - tombert 8mo ago
    I’m having trouble finding citation for that. Not saying you’re lying just maybe don’t have the right keywords to search for which code was stolen.
  - ksynwa 8mo ago
    This isn't true. They were able to pressure yuzu instead because of fixes for the leaked version of the TOTK ROM.
    - dcrazy 8mo ago
      You’re right, I was thinking of Yuzu.
- whateveracct 8mo ago
  punk never dies
charcircuit 8mo ago
But dumping the games isn't. How do you think the screenshots in the blog post were taken. Do you think they properly got a license to do so? Hint: The blog post says they made a way to dump the games.
- cyphar 8mo ago
  That depends on the country. In Australia, there is an explicit carve-out in the Copyright Act to allow for backups of computer programs[1], and there is also a widely held belief (at least, according to the government) that backups of this kind in general are also considered fair use[2]. Actually, it seems there is a somewhat similar carve-out in the US as well[3]. [1]: https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca1968133/s47c.html https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/cth/cons... [2]: https://www.alrc.gov.au/publication/copyright-and-the-digital-economy-alrc-report-122/17-computer-programs-and-back-ups/back-ups-and-fair-use/ https://www.alrc.gov.au/publication/copyright-and-the-digita... [3]: https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#117 https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#117
  - charcircuit 8mo ago
    >there is an explicit carve-out in the Copyright Act to allow for backups of computer programs But there is not a carve out for breaking DRM to do so. It's not the backup part that is the problem with dumping them. It's that these games are encrypted and decrypting them requires breaking the DRM scheme which is illegal.
    - cyphar 8mo ago
      There is a separate carve-out for breaking DRM for the purposes of "interoperability"[1], which (as far as I understand) is generally believed to include emulators. I also disagree more broadly with the initial moral indignation over a perceived violation of copyright law -- legality and morality are two different things, copyright law is meant to be a balanced trade-off between the public and creators but modern copyright laws are a travesty. What ever happened to the hacker ethos behind DeCSS and the anti-"illegal numbers" movement? [1]: https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca1968133/s116an.html https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/cth/cons...
easyThrowaway 8mo ago
In the music industry they have a saying about sampling and IP clearance which easily applies here too: "The lawfulness of your actions is directly related to your law firm fees compared to the other part". Are Dolphin and emulation in general going to be legal in the future? Easy, if Nintendo chooses to go with Morrison & Foerster or Fish & Richardson for a lawsuit I'm going with "no".

Emulation is legal in the US

by kg 8mo ago

Emulation is legal in the US

For now at least. Given Nintendo's efforts to get rid of Yuzu and Ryujinx I think it's likely that the legal days may be numbered. All they have to do is get it in front of the right judge(s) and the precedent by the Connectix and the Bleem lawsuits is undone. Not that I particularly care if it's legal; I seriously doubt anyone is going to break into my house to seize my MiSTer as contraband, but I think it's entirely possible that emulation progress stalls because it's forced to move into the shadows.

dcrazy 8mo ago
Nintendo was able to pressure RyujinX because it relied on stolen code.
- tombert 8mo ago
  I’m having trouble finding citation for that. Not saying you’re lying just maybe don’t have the right keywords to search for which code was stolen.
- ksynwa 8mo ago
  This isn't true. They were able to pressure yuzu instead because of fixes for the leaked version of the TOTK ROM.
  - dcrazy 8mo ago
    You’re right, I was thinking of Yuzu.
whateveracct 8mo ago
punk never dies

charcircuit 8mo ago

But dumping the games isn't. How do you think the screenshots in the blog post were taken. Do you think they properly got a license to do so? Hint: The blog post says they made a way to dump the games.

cyphar 8mo ago
That depends on the country. In Australia, there is an explicit carve-out in the Copyright Act to allow for backups of computer programs[1], and there is also a widely held belief (at least, according to the government) that backups of this kind in general are also considered fair use[2]. Actually, it seems there is a somewhat similar carve-out in the US as well[3]. [1]: https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca1968133/s47c.html https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/cth/cons... [2]: https://www.alrc.gov.au/publication/copyright-and-the-digital-economy-alrc-report-122/17-computer-programs-and-back-ups/back-ups-and-fair-use/ https://www.alrc.gov.au/publication/copyright-and-the-digita... [3]: https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#117 https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#117
- charcircuit 8mo ago
  >there is an explicit carve-out in the Copyright Act to allow for backups of computer programs But there is not a carve out for breaking DRM to do so. It's not the backup part that is the problem with dumping them. It's that these games are encrypted and decrypting them requires breaking the DRM scheme which is illegal.
  - cyphar 8mo ago
    There is a separate carve-out for breaking DRM for the purposes of "interoperability"[1], which (as far as I understand) is generally believed to include emulators. I also disagree more broadly with the initial moral indignation over a perceived violation of copyright law -- legality and morality are two different things, copyright law is meant to be a balanced trade-off between the public and creators but modern copyright laws are a travesty. What ever happened to the hacker ethos behind DeCSS and the anti-"illegal numbers" movement? [1]: https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca1968133/s116an.html https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/cth/cons...

easyThrowaway 8mo ago

In the music industry they have a saying about sampling and IP clearance which easily applies here too: "The lawfulness of your actions is directly related to your law firm fees compared to the other part". Are Dolphin and emulation in general going to be legal in the future? Easy, if Nintendo chooses to go with Morrison & Foerster or Fish & Richardson for a lawsuit I'm going with "no".