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I remember we had users at a chip foundry who were super deep into TCL. Is it still used anywhere else? Would you use it for a new project if you for instance a

I remember we had users at a chip foundry who were super deep into TCL. Is it still used anywhere else? Would you use it for a new project if you for instance already knew Python or Lua?

danhor 8mo ago
It's still the lingua-franca of ASIC/FPGA/Simulation, especially for scripting the tools. I think it's slowly being replaced there by Python, but it's very slow.
- xantronix 8mo ago
  > but it's very slow The process of replacing Tcl, or Python itself?
catwell 8mo ago
Antirez (the author of this interpreter) uses it for the Redis test suite. Personally, I know Lua and Python very well but I still used TCL a few years ago for something very specific: using ODBC on Windows. I gave more details on the Lua mailing list here: http://lua-users.org/lists/lua-l/2021-01/msg00067.html http://lua-users.org/lists/lua-l/2021-01/msg00067.html
- JSR_FDED 8mo ago
  That was interesting to read. So in your case it came down to ecosystem depth, especially on Windows - where there was a TCL solution to talk ODBC, but the equivalent Lua functionality had issues on Windows.
vodou 8mo ago
It is still used for operations procedures in, at least, European space industry. E.g., in mission control systems from Terma (CCS5 and TSC).
sprash 8mo ago
Tcl/Tk to this day is the best tool to make GUI frontends for CLI applications. Besides that, in the past I used it in production for intranet database entry applications. It has since been replaced by Flask. In my opinion the higher complexity of the Flask version is no way justified and we should have kept the much simpler ~2k LOC Tcl/Tk solution.
- fuzztester 8mo ago
  >Tcl/Tk to this day is the best tool to make GUI frontends for CLI applications. Why? Please elaborate. I've heard others say this, but would like to know more. >Besides that, in the past I used it in production for intranet database entry applications. GUI apps?
  - sprash 8mo ago
    > Why? CLI applications typically read text from stdin and write text to stdout. The tcl model of "everything is a string" makes exactly the right abstraction to create GUI frontends for CLI applications rapidly and keep them simple at the same time.
    - fuzztester 8mo ago
      thanks.
  - pwg 8mo ago
    > Why? Please elaborate. Tk's GUI object model is sitting at a reasonable maxima between trivial to make use of vs. triggering the events necessary to make the GUI active. Small example. You want a button on your GUI that triggers a procedure called "process" when it is clicked, this is the code you need (if you are fine with the remaining defaults) (and assuming you used 'pack' as the geometry manager): button .process -text "Process Entries" -command process pack .process -side top And a fully active GUI button will now appear at the bottom of your Tk window, with a label of "Process Entries" and when you click it, a Tcl procedure named "process" will be executed.
rausr 8mo ago
We've got Check Point Firewalls at work, and during updates I see lots of .tcl in the web UI.
AceJohnny2 8mo ago
I'm looking to use TCL for an embedded platform, as the scripting shell. Its simplicity and small size is key, as is its easy integration with C.
smartmic 8mo ago
It is at the core of the SQLite test suite and also a first-class citizen in interfacing to it.
amelius 8mo ago
By the way, I'm guessing that Tcl was (is?) big in EDA because John Ousterhout also wrote the EDA tool Magic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_(software) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_(software)
- w4der 8mo ago
  Tcl's first "release" was in 1988 and Magic was released in 1984, but it seems like John Ousterhout then wrote Tcl to have a common interface across tools [https://web.stanford.edu/~ouster/cgi-bin/tclHistory.php https://web.stanford.edu/~ouster/cgi-bin/tclHistory.php]. It still is a big thing in EDA, because (in theory) it lets a chip designer run their designs by tools from different vendors
shawn_w 8mo ago
I like tcl as an alternative to shell for any non-trivial scripts. And its coroutines + built in event loop makes for really nice seamless async style programming.
uwagar 8mo ago
i like calling a function f without arguments simply as f # first word in TCL command line is a command rather than f (); if there was also a function called g, i like to do things like set a f $a # calls f so i can now set a g $a # calls g cool i think.
mbirth 8mo ago
The MacOS hex editor HexFiend uses Tcl for its template language. > https://github.com/HexFiend/HexFiend/blob/master/templates/Tutorial.md https://github.com/HexFiend/HexFiend/blob/master/templates/T...
netrap 8mo ago
I recall my time in satellite control systems had a lot of TCL code.
prinny_ 8mo ago
The previous company I was working at had quite a lot of TCL code for their back end logic. Betting sector, well known in US and Europe. They still actively hire people to maintain the codebase. Rock solid code, no surprises, was able to handle tens of thousands of concurrent bets.

I remember we had users at a chip foundry who were super deep into TCL. Is it still used anywhere else? Would you use it for a new project if you for instance already knew Python or Lua?

danhor 8mo ago

It's still the lingua-franca of ASIC/FPGA/Simulation, especially for scripting the tools. I think it's slowly being replaced there by Python, but it's very slow.

xantronix 8mo ago
> but it's very slow The process of replacing Tcl, or Python itself?

catwell 8mo ago

Antirez (the author of this interpreter) uses it for the Redis test suite. Personally, I know Lua and Python very well but I still used TCL a few years ago for something very specific: using ODBC on Windows. I gave more details on the Lua mailing list here: http://lua-users.org/lists/lua-l/2021-01/msg00067.html http://lua-users.org/lists/lua-l/2021-01/msg00067.html

JSR_FDED 8mo ago
That was interesting to read. So in your case it came down to ecosystem depth, especially on Windows - where there was a TCL solution to talk ODBC, but the equivalent Lua functionality had issues on Windows.

vodou 8mo ago

It is still used for operations procedures in, at least, European space industry. E.g., in mission control systems from Terma (CCS5 and TSC).

sprash 8mo ago

Tcl/Tk to this day is the best tool to make GUI frontends for CLI applications. Besides that, in the past I used it in production for intranet database entry applications. It has since been replaced by Flask. In my opinion the higher complexity of the Flask version is no way justified and we should have kept the much simpler ~2k LOC Tcl/Tk solution.

fuzztester 8mo ago
>Tcl/Tk to this day is the best tool to make GUI frontends for CLI applications. Why? Please elaborate. I've heard others say this, but would like to know more. >Besides that, in the past I used it in production for intranet database entry applications. GUI apps?
- sprash 8mo ago
  > Why? CLI applications typically read text from stdin and write text to stdout. The tcl model of "everything is a string" makes exactly the right abstraction to create GUI frontends for CLI applications rapidly and keep them simple at the same time.
  - fuzztester 8mo ago
    thanks.
- pwg 8mo ago
  > Why? Please elaborate. Tk's GUI object model is sitting at a reasonable maxima between trivial to make use of vs. triggering the events necessary to make the GUI active. Small example. You want a button on your GUI that triggers a procedure called "process" when it is clicked, this is the code you need (if you are fine with the remaining defaults) (and assuming you used 'pack' as the geometry manager): button .process -text "Process Entries" -command process pack .process -side top And a fully active GUI button will now appear at the bottom of your Tk window, with a label of "Process Entries" and when you click it, a Tcl procedure named "process" will be executed.

rausr 8mo ago

We've got Check Point Firewalls at work, and during updates I see lots of .tcl in the web UI.

AceJohnny2 8mo ago

I'm looking to use TCL for an embedded platform, as the scripting shell. Its simplicity and small size is key, as is its easy integration with C.

smartmic 8mo ago

It is at the core of the SQLite test suite and also a first-class citizen in interfacing to it.

amelius 8mo ago

By the way, I'm guessing that Tcl was (is?) big in EDA because John Ousterhout also wrote the EDA tool Magic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_(software) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_(software)

w4der 8mo ago
Tcl's first "release" was in 1988 and Magic was released in 1984, but it seems like John Ousterhout then wrote Tcl to have a common interface across tools [https://web.stanford.edu/~ouster/cgi-bin/tclHistory.php https://web.stanford.edu/~ouster/cgi-bin/tclHistory.php]. It still is a big thing in EDA, because (in theory) it lets a chip designer run their designs by tools from different vendors

shawn_w 8mo ago

I like tcl as an alternative to shell for any non-trivial scripts. And its coroutines + built in event loop makes for really nice seamless async style programming.

uwagar 8mo ago

i like calling a function f without arguments simply as f # first word in TCL command line is a command rather than f (); if there was also a function called g, i like to do things like set a f $a # calls f so i can now set a g $a # calls g cool i think.

mbirth 8mo ago

The MacOS hex editor HexFiend uses Tcl for its template language. > https://github.com/HexFiend/HexFiend/blob/master/templates/Tutorial.md https://github.com/HexFiend/HexFiend/blob/master/templates/T...

netrap 8mo ago

I recall my time in satellite control systems had a lot of TCL code.

prinny_ 8mo ago

The previous company I was working at had quite a lot of TCL code for their back end logic. Betting sector, well known in US and Europe. They still actively hire people to maintain the codebase. Rock solid code, no surprises, was able to handle tens of thousands of concurrent bets.