4 ms·

AMEX, Capital One and Apple are not even close to the top of the list of companies that I would trust with my digital data.

mark_l_watson 9mo ago
Jacques, do you mind sharing your list of trusted companies? Thanks in advance.
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
- jacquesm 9mo ago
  It's going to be pretty short. Proton would be there for comms, for hosting related stuff I would trust Hetzner before any big US based cloud company. For the AI domain I wouldn't trust any of the big players, they're all just jockeying for position and want to achieve lock-in on a scale never seen before and they have all already shown they don't give a rats ass about where they get their training data and I expect that once they are in financial trouble they'll be happy to sell your private data down the river. Effectively you can trust all of the companies out there right up until they are acquired and then you will regret all of the data you ever gave them. In that sense Facebook is unique: it was rotten from day #1. Vehicles: anything made before 2005, SIM or e-SIM on board = no go. I'm halfway towards setting up my own private mail server and IRC server for me and my friends and kissing the internet goodbye. It was a fun 30 years but we're well into nightmare territory now. Unfortunately you are now more or less forced to participate because your bank, your government and your social circle will push you back in. And I'm still pissed off that I'm not allowed to host any servers on a residential connection. That's not 'internet connectivity' that's 'consumer connectivity'.
  - BoredPositron 9mo ago
    Proton? After the last two years of enshitification and purely revenue driven product decisions really?
    - jacquesm 9mo ago
      Barely. Your points are well made and I'm sure that it is just a matter of time before they're just as untouchable as the rest. Hence the remark about mail. The Siloization of the internet is almost complete.
  - blueaquilae 9mo ago
    Proton is quite a privacy washing front. Surprised than even in HN nobody check behind the facade what was signed.
    - jacquesm 9mo ago
      Yes, they're losing it. It's a pity, they were doing well for a long time. I'm surprised that someone on HN would paint all of HN with the same brush. It's one of those 'lesser evils' things. If you know of a better email provider I'd love to know.
    - unethical_ban 9mo ago
      Proton complied with a court order once (that we know of), no? I have seen a lot of negative sentiment from HN commenters toward them but not a lot of evidence to back it up, particularly when you consider the email marketplace.
      - Itoldmyselfso 9mo ago
        It was a legally mandated court order they couldn't just refuse. No encrypted data, the contents of their emails, was handed over. The person would've also been safe had they used vpn/tor as I recall the story.
    - Aurornis 9mo ago
      > Surprised than even in HN nobody check behind the facade what was signed Such as? These aloof comments that talk about something we're supposed to know about without referencing anything are very unhelpful.
  - jjtheblunt 9mo ago
    why the (e)SIM cars concern? i ask since the data transmission (bidirectional) can be used to justify lower insurance rates, for an example, than without that data. ( https://www.lemonade.com/fsd https://www.lemonade.com/fsd is an example )
    - jacquesm 9mo ago
      Because I don't trust that that location data won't end up in the wrong hands.
      - jiveturkey 9mo ago
        This, but stronger. It’s not a story of why Johnny can’t trust anyone. The vast majority of companies have proven time and time again that they are not capable of handling this data securely against inadvertent disclosure. Not even mentioning the intentional disclosure revenue stream.
      - jjtheblunt 9mo ago
        wrong hands being advertisers or insurance companies or something else? i also thought of stalkers being a vulnerability.
    - rcoder 9mo ago
      "Justifying lower insurance rates" is just algorithmic bias described from the perspective of someone it doesn't (currently) harm. See also: credit scoring, insurance claim acceptance, job applications, etc., etc. You only get offered a discount if most other customers are being compelled to pay full (or even increased) prices for the same offering. Otherwise revenue goes down and company leadership finds itself finding other ways to cut costs and increase profits.
  - sph 9mo ago
    > I'm halfway towards setting up my own private mail server and IRC server for me and my friends and kissing the internet goodbye. It was a fun 30 years but we're well into nightmare territory now. Every day my doomer sentiment deepens, and I am ashamed when I come onto here and see all this optimism. It is refreshing to see people whose opinions I have come to respect on this forum to be as negative as I am.
    - jacquesm 9mo ago
      If you're not to some degree pessimistic right now that simply means you haven't been paying attention for two decades or so. I would expect that for a number of people we are now well into 'don't look up' territory, they realize in their gut that this all isn't right but they prefer to pretend everything is alright as long as they can because the alternative is just too uncomfortable. I see this around me all the time and I don't blame them at all, people as a rule have problems enough without having to think about the larger implications. Unfortunately that is exactly the kind of loophole the power hungry contingent needs to drive their trucks through: by structurally worsening quality of life they ensure that the bulk of the people is distracted while they make out like bandits over the backs of the rest.
  - Fervicus 9mo ago
    It's all so tiring isn't it? It's become a meme, but everyday more and more, I yearn for living in the middle of nowhere, unplugged, with just my friends and family around. Very unrealistic, but still.
    - jacquesm 9mo ago
      Yes. My old farm in Canada was pretty good in that sense, but with the madman next door even that would not have felt very stable right now.
- marxisttemp 9mo ago
  Mark, can you conceive that some people don’t trust any companies?
  - mark_l_watson 9mo ago
    Yes, I can! After reading Jacques's response to my question, my list got smaller. Personally, I still like Proton, but I get that they have made some people unhappy. I also agree that Hetzner is a reliable provider; I have used them a bunch of times in the last ten years. Then my friend, we have to worry about fiber/network providers I suppose. This general topic is outside my primary area of competence, so I just have a loose opinion of maintaining my own domain, use encryption, and being able switch between providers easily. I would love to see an Ask HN on secure and private agentic infra + frameworks.
appplication 9mo ago
I’d be very curious what your list would be
- jacquesm 9mo ago
  See other comment.
rukuu001 9mo ago
Never mind the list of companies - I'd be very curious to know what the 'trust signals' are that would help you trust a company?
- jacquesm 9mo ago
  Decent management. A lack of change of business model, no rug pulls and such. Fair value for money. Consistency over the longer term. No lock in or other forced relationships. Large enough to be useful and to have decent team size, small enough to not have the illusion they'll conquer the world. Healthy competition.
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
  - NBJack 9mo ago
    Admirable, but short of a local credit union I used to use (which I am no longer with as they f'd up a rather critical transaction), I can scarcely imagine a business that fits such a model these days. The amount of transparency needed to vet this would be interesting to find though, and its mere presence probably a green flag.
    - jacquesm 9mo ago
      It's much easier to use this to reject than to accept.
  - lovich 9mo ago
    Are there any companies existing you would trust? I honestly can’t name a single one I know of who could pass that criteria Edit:found your other comment answering a similar question
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
- 8note 9mo ago
  I'd go for a co-operative ownership model rather than capitalist? and make sure the member/owners are all of like mind, and willing to pay more to ensure security and privacy
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]

mark_l_watson 9mo ago

Jacques, do you mind sharing your list of trusted companies? Thanks in advance.

deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
jacquesm 9mo ago
It's going to be pretty short. Proton would be there for comms, for hosting related stuff I would trust Hetzner before any big US based cloud company. For the AI domain I wouldn't trust any of the big players, they're all just jockeying for position and want to achieve lock-in on a scale never seen before and they have all already shown they don't give a rats ass about where they get their training data and I expect that once they are in financial trouble they'll be happy to sell your private data down the river. Effectively you can trust all of the companies out there right up until they are acquired and then you will regret all of the data you ever gave them. In that sense Facebook is unique: it was rotten from day #1. Vehicles: anything made before 2005, SIM or e-SIM on board = no go. I'm halfway towards setting up my own private mail server and IRC server for me and my friends and kissing the internet goodbye. It was a fun 30 years but we're well into nightmare territory now. Unfortunately you are now more or less forced to participate because your bank, your government and your social circle will push you back in. And I'm still pissed off that I'm not allowed to host any servers on a residential connection. That's not 'internet connectivity' that's 'consumer connectivity'.
- BoredPositron 9mo ago
  Proton? After the last two years of enshitification and purely revenue driven product decisions really?
  - jacquesm 9mo ago
    Barely. Your points are well made and I'm sure that it is just a matter of time before they're just as untouchable as the rest. Hence the remark about mail. The Siloization of the internet is almost complete.
- blueaquilae 9mo ago
  Proton is quite a privacy washing front. Surprised than even in HN nobody check behind the facade what was signed.
  - jacquesm 9mo ago
    Yes, they're losing it. It's a pity, they were doing well for a long time. I'm surprised that someone on HN would paint all of HN with the same brush. It's one of those 'lesser evils' things. If you know of a better email provider I'd love to know.
  - unethical_ban 9mo ago
    Proton complied with a court order once (that we know of), no? I have seen a lot of negative sentiment from HN commenters toward them but not a lot of evidence to back it up, particularly when you consider the email marketplace.
    - Itoldmyselfso 9mo ago
      It was a legally mandated court order they couldn't just refuse. No encrypted data, the contents of their emails, was handed over. The person would've also been safe had they used vpn/tor as I recall the story.
  - Aurornis 9mo ago
    > Surprised than even in HN nobody check behind the facade what was signed Such as? These aloof comments that talk about something we're supposed to know about without referencing anything are very unhelpful.
- jjtheblunt 9mo ago
  why the (e)SIM cars concern? i ask since the data transmission (bidirectional) can be used to justify lower insurance rates, for an example, than without that data. ( https://www.lemonade.com/fsd https://www.lemonade.com/fsd is an example )
  - jacquesm 9mo ago
    Because I don't trust that that location data won't end up in the wrong hands.
    - jiveturkey 9mo ago
      This, but stronger. It’s not a story of why Johnny can’t trust anyone. The vast majority of companies have proven time and time again that they are not capable of handling this data securely against inadvertent disclosure. Not even mentioning the intentional disclosure revenue stream.
    - jjtheblunt 9mo ago
      wrong hands being advertisers or insurance companies or something else? i also thought of stalkers being a vulnerability.
  - rcoder 9mo ago
    "Justifying lower insurance rates" is just algorithmic bias described from the perspective of someone it doesn't (currently) harm. See also: credit scoring, insurance claim acceptance, job applications, etc., etc. You only get offered a discount if most other customers are being compelled to pay full (or even increased) prices for the same offering. Otherwise revenue goes down and company leadership finds itself finding other ways to cut costs and increase profits.
- sph 9mo ago
  > I'm halfway towards setting up my own private mail server and IRC server for me and my friends and kissing the internet goodbye. It was a fun 30 years but we're well into nightmare territory now. Every day my doomer sentiment deepens, and I am ashamed when I come onto here and see all this optimism. It is refreshing to see people whose opinions I have come to respect on this forum to be as negative as I am.
  - jacquesm 9mo ago
    If you're not to some degree pessimistic right now that simply means you haven't been paying attention for two decades or so. I would expect that for a number of people we are now well into 'don't look up' territory, they realize in their gut that this all isn't right but they prefer to pretend everything is alright as long as they can because the alternative is just too uncomfortable. I see this around me all the time and I don't blame them at all, people as a rule have problems enough without having to think about the larger implications. Unfortunately that is exactly the kind of loophole the power hungry contingent needs to drive their trucks through: by structurally worsening quality of life they ensure that the bulk of the people is distracted while they make out like bandits over the backs of the rest.
- Fervicus 9mo ago
  It's all so tiring isn't it? It's become a meme, but everyday more and more, I yearn for living in the middle of nowhere, unplugged, with just my friends and family around. Very unrealistic, but still.
  - jacquesm 9mo ago
    Yes. My old farm in Canada was pretty good in that sense, but with the madman next door even that would not have felt very stable right now.
marxisttemp 9mo ago
Mark, can you conceive that some people don’t trust any companies?
- mark_l_watson 9mo ago
  Yes, I can! After reading Jacques's response to my question, my list got smaller. Personally, I still like Proton, but I get that they have made some people unhappy. I also agree that Hetzner is a reliable provider; I have used them a bunch of times in the last ten years. Then my friend, we have to worry about fiber/network providers I suppose. This general topic is outside my primary area of competence, so I just have a loose opinion of maintaining my own domain, use encryption, and being able switch between providers easily. I would love to see an Ask HN on secure and private agentic infra + frameworks.

appplication 9mo ago

I’d be very curious what your list would be

jacquesm 9mo ago
See other comment.

rukuu001 9mo ago

Never mind the list of companies - I'd be very curious to know what the 'trust signals' are that would help you trust a company?

jacquesm 9mo ago
Decent management. A lack of change of business model, no rug pulls and such. Fair value for money. Consistency over the longer term. No lock in or other forced relationships. Large enough to be useful and to have decent team size, small enough to not have the illusion they'll conquer the world. Healthy competition.
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
- NBJack 9mo ago
  Admirable, but short of a local credit union I used to use (which I am no longer with as they f'd up a rather critical transaction), I can scarcely imagine a business that fits such a model these days. The amount of transparency needed to vet this would be interesting to find though, and its mere presence probably a green flag.
  - jacquesm 9mo ago
    It's much easier to use this to reject than to accept.
- lovich 9mo ago
  Are there any companies existing you would trust? I honestly can’t name a single one I know of who could pass that criteria Edit:found your other comment answering a similar question
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
8note 9mo ago
I'd go for a co-operative ownership model rather than capitalist? and make sure the member/owners are all of like mind, and willing to pay more to ensure security and privacy

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]