6 ms·

Are there any demos of Palantir out there, what sort of things does it do and has anyone tried making an OSS alternative - I don’t really understand why any gov

Are there any demos of Palantir out there, what sort of things does it do and has anyone tried making an OSS alternative - I don’t really understand why any government would trust them.

_diyar 8mo ago
AFAIK their business model is to send skilled engineers to client sites to be consultants and developers. Their selling point is not some product/code per-se (ie. they have a code base with existing analysis tools, but nothing crazy), but the fact that they jump into whatever situation and grind through problems. The problem is that they also keep close ties to law-enforcement and (para-)military clients, and while they promise to keep your data safe, they would never inform you if they received a warrant from the government to share the data.
- worldsayshi 8mo ago
  If that's an accurate description it's very puzzling that European countries buy services from them.
  - Krasnol 8mo ago
    It is a selective description. FDE is not the only thing they sell. Software Licenses for their products (Gotham/Foundry/AIP) is why countries (and businesses) deal with them.
- rorylawless 8mo ago
  So, they’re basically a traditional consultancy firm focused on data analytics, particularly record linkage?
  - CuriouslyC 8mo ago
    And methodically operationalizing client work into products.
    - rorylawless 8mo ago
      So, they create powerpoints?
      - CuriouslyC 8mo ago
        No, the model is closer to AWS sending engineers into orgs to build bespoke solutions, with the platform team providing flexible building blocks rather than each solution being ground up.
- themafia 8mo ago
  They dump all your stuff into a schemaless database and then attach widgets to it. That's literally it. It's not even particularly good technology.
  - XorNot 8mo ago
    It's literally just "better then what people had" + they're willing to work through government and military contracting processes so it can actually be deployed in those environments. They have a lot of "forward deployed engineer" roles which basically means staff with security clearances who get locked in SCIFs and provide on-site technical support. Which is really why they keep getting hired: when you write into your contract "it stays on premises and technical support can't take logs off site" they agree to it (at a hefty mark up because all of that sucks to do).
    - dkrich 8mo ago
      There are many, many, many companies much older than Palantir operating in the beltway that do this. Having TS/SCI cleared resources who can work in SCIFs isn’t in itself a differentiator. Besides, that type of security level would make it very difficult to make use of their products in the first place.
      - XorNot 8mo ago
        You're missing "better then what they had". It was as I understand it, a big innovation to just bring some post-2010s webdev to the UI experience. A relevant comparison would be that SpaceX didn't build fancy rockets and their was a lot of similarly old players in the space. They still took it over pretty thoroughly.
  - caminante 8mo ago
    Went to a luncheon and sat with some IT Directors at a Fortune 20. I asked what they were seeing and excited about. They kept explaining that Foundry (Palantir's SaaS BI platform) is better than EVERY other alternative (and mind you, they've used every other major vendor as an F20). I kept asking what was special about it (Did it re-invent data models? Is it faster/cheaper than MSFT, GOOG, AWS, SNOW?) I kept getting circular answers (advantages without addressing design consequences) until I realized (to myself) that what they were describing as "great" had nothing to do with the Palantir tech. It was great because Palantir's sales people had taken a top down approach (getting CEO's blessing) and had the "green light" to greenfield data solutions and cut through internal bureaucracy/silos about connecting datasources to find revenues or savings. This is CEO (since fired) kept bragging to shareholders about rubbing elbows with Palantir's Alex Karp and gleaming with joy about the potential of their AI collaboration. That's the impression I get about PLTR. They're like if McKinsey was re-loaded with software, and sales engineers and they hunt C-Suite and government clients to "speak AI." I haven't looked recently, but one bearish sentiment was that they need growth to sustain their high P/E, and there are only so many more governments/CEOs in their addressable market to add.
renewiltord 8mo ago
What’s there to trust? You use a tool, it finds things you did that you didn’t bill for, you get paid. Where in this is trust required? The guy you’re billing will complain if the bills are inaccurate.
infinitewars 8mo ago
The government IS Palantir at this point, at least J.D. Vance was hand-picked by Thiel. Musk+Thiel is also in the mix with Golden Dome, the space weapons program that was always Musk's mission. The inside "joke" is that Mars = Wars.
- mullingitover 8mo ago
  And Golden Dome is just the reheated leftovers of the 80s Star Wars space-based scheme literally dreamed up by Dr Strangelove himself, Edward Teller, and promoted by the Heritage Society as a way to get past MAD and allow the US to start and win WWIII. These clowns will absolutely kill millions if they’re not put in check. Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
  - themafia 8mo ago
    > These clowns will absolutely kill millions if they’re not put in check. They already are.. but.. have you seen the DOW?
estetlinus 8mo ago
Michael Burry is extremely bearish on their business model and has written excellent pieces on why he is shorting Palantir.
- asdff 8mo ago
  Burry is probably right, but he forgets that Thiel is friends with Trump, so the merits of business don't matter for Palantir to secure lucrative government contracts.
  - impossiblefork 8mo ago
    But is Trump really going to give Palantir a contract allowing Palantir to make 10-15 billion per annum and hand that out to shareholders? That's what's required to get the P/E ratio to 15.
    - asdff 8mo ago
      Having things make sense with PE ratios is no longer a requirement. What is Tesla's again?
      - impossiblefork 8mo ago
        That's true for a while, but never for ever. But the market is unlikely to be irrational forever.
- impossiblefork 8mo ago
  The valuation is obviously insane. You can't have that kind of P/E ratios. Same thing with Tesla.
  - caminante 8mo ago
    I don't get it either man. Still have >$300 billion market cap on <$5 billion annual revenues. This is AFTER falling 30% since December.
deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
crimsoneer 8mo ago
You can just go sign up...? https://www.palantir.com/developers/ https://www.palantir.com/developers/
deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
SilverElfin 8mo ago
No one can explain what it is. They have some bullshit “ontology” thing they talk up on every investor call and bots spam about it on twitter and reddit. I think they are basically a software consultancy firm that the government can outsource all evil deeds to. Like warrantless surveillance
- fatherwavelet 8mo ago
  Their "ontology" is not bullshit but they speak about it in a bullshit way. I think they refer to it like a product or something they invented as a form of marketing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontology_(information_science) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontology_(information_science) If you just google ontology you probably end up reading some Heidegger and conclude how deep these guys must be. Whenever I hear Karp say it I always think of it like he is saying "Database" or "The Database". "What makes Palantir different is Database". I think so much of Palantir is performative and for sales performances.
  - caminante 8mo ago
    Here's my lived experience upthread. [0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47029837 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47029837
    - deaux 8mo ago
      You didn't talk about having used it? Talking to my mom about her knitting club and then presenting myself as having a "lived experience" in knitting would be pretty funny.
      - caminante 8mo ago
        > in knitting. Notice how you got vague here? Is it "lived experience" performing knitting, talking to your mom about knitting, asking how your mom's knitting is different than other knitting and she...struggles? If you don't see the issue, then you weren't following the thread.
nimrody 8mo ago
They have an entire youtube channel. For example, see this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF-GSj-Exms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF-GSj-Exms Some of their stuff for handling data and versioned pipelines seem very well done.
deaux 8mo ago
There are a ton of demos. There's nothing special about it. They're bad guys for sure, but in a similar vein to AWS and Microsoft. Those hospitals using AWS would be just as concerning but gather 1% of the comments on HN.

Are there any demos of Palantir out there, what sort of things does it do and has anyone tried making an OSS alternative - I don’t really understand why any government would trust them.

_diyar 8mo ago

AFAIK their business model is to send skilled engineers to client sites to be consultants and developers. Their selling point is not some product/code per-se (ie. they have a code base with existing analysis tools, but nothing crazy), but the fact that they jump into whatever situation and grind through problems. The problem is that they also keep close ties to law-enforcement and (para-)military clients, and while they promise to keep your data safe, they would never inform you if they received a warrant from the government to share the data.

worldsayshi 8mo ago
If that's an accurate description it's very puzzling that European countries buy services from them.
- Krasnol 8mo ago
  It is a selective description. FDE is not the only thing they sell. Software Licenses for their products (Gotham/Foundry/AIP) is why countries (and businesses) deal with them.
rorylawless 8mo ago
So, they’re basically a traditional consultancy firm focused on data analytics, particularly record linkage?
- CuriouslyC 8mo ago
  And methodically operationalizing client work into products.
  - rorylawless 8mo ago
    So, they create powerpoints?
    - CuriouslyC 8mo ago
      No, the model is closer to AWS sending engineers into orgs to build bespoke solutions, with the platform team providing flexible building blocks rather than each solution being ground up.
themafia 8mo ago
They dump all your stuff into a schemaless database and then attach widgets to it. That's literally it. It's not even particularly good technology.
- XorNot 8mo ago
  It's literally just "better then what people had" + they're willing to work through government and military contracting processes so it can actually be deployed in those environments. They have a lot of "forward deployed engineer" roles which basically means staff with security clearances who get locked in SCIFs and provide on-site technical support. Which is really why they keep getting hired: when you write into your contract "it stays on premises and technical support can't take logs off site" they agree to it (at a hefty mark up because all of that sucks to do).
  - dkrich 8mo ago
    There are many, many, many companies much older than Palantir operating in the beltway that do this. Having TS/SCI cleared resources who can work in SCIFs isn’t in itself a differentiator. Besides, that type of security level would make it very difficult to make use of their products in the first place.
    - XorNot 8mo ago
      You're missing "better then what they had". It was as I understand it, a big innovation to just bring some post-2010s webdev to the UI experience. A relevant comparison would be that SpaceX didn't build fancy rockets and their was a lot of similarly old players in the space. They still took it over pretty thoroughly.
- caminante 8mo ago
  Went to a luncheon and sat with some IT Directors at a Fortune 20. I asked what they were seeing and excited about. They kept explaining that Foundry (Palantir's SaaS BI platform) is better than EVERY other alternative (and mind you, they've used every other major vendor as an F20). I kept asking what was special about it (Did it re-invent data models? Is it faster/cheaper than MSFT, GOOG, AWS, SNOW?) I kept getting circular answers (advantages without addressing design consequences) until I realized (to myself) that what they were describing as "great" had nothing to do with the Palantir tech. It was great because Palantir's sales people had taken a top down approach (getting CEO's blessing) and had the "green light" to greenfield data solutions and cut through internal bureaucracy/silos about connecting datasources to find revenues or savings. This is CEO (since fired) kept bragging to shareholders about rubbing elbows with Palantir's Alex Karp and gleaming with joy about the potential of their AI collaboration. That's the impression I get about PLTR. They're like if McKinsey was re-loaded with software, and sales engineers and they hunt C-Suite and government clients to "speak AI." I haven't looked recently, but one bearish sentiment was that they need growth to sustain their high P/E, and there are only so many more governments/CEOs in their addressable market to add.

renewiltord 8mo ago

What’s there to trust? You use a tool, it finds things you did that you didn’t bill for, you get paid. Where in this is trust required? The guy you’re billing will complain if the bills are inaccurate.

infinitewars 8mo ago

The government IS Palantir at this point, at least J.D. Vance was hand-picked by Thiel. Musk+Thiel is also in the mix with Golden Dome, the space weapons program that was always Musk's mission. The inside "joke" is that Mars = Wars.

mullingitover 8mo ago
And Golden Dome is just the reheated leftovers of the 80s Star Wars space-based scheme literally dreamed up by Dr Strangelove himself, Edward Teller, and promoted by the Heritage Society as a way to get past MAD and allow the US to start and win WWIII. These clowns will absolutely kill millions if they’re not put in check. Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
- themafia 8mo ago
  > These clowns will absolutely kill millions if they’re not put in check. They already are.. but.. have you seen the DOW?

estetlinus 8mo ago

Michael Burry is extremely bearish on their business model and has written excellent pieces on why he is shorting Palantir.

asdff 8mo ago
Burry is probably right, but he forgets that Thiel is friends with Trump, so the merits of business don't matter for Palantir to secure lucrative government contracts.
- impossiblefork 8mo ago
  But is Trump really going to give Palantir a contract allowing Palantir to make 10-15 billion per annum and hand that out to shareholders? That's what's required to get the P/E ratio to 15.
  - asdff 8mo ago
    Having things make sense with PE ratios is no longer a requirement. What is Tesla's again?
    - impossiblefork 8mo ago
      That's true for a while, but never for ever. But the market is unlikely to be irrational forever.
impossiblefork 8mo ago
The valuation is obviously insane. You can't have that kind of P/E ratios. Same thing with Tesla.
- caminante 8mo ago
  I don't get it either man. Still have >$300 billion market cap on <$5 billion annual revenues. This is AFTER falling 30% since December.

deleted 8mo ago

[deleted]

crimsoneer 8mo ago

You can just go sign up...? https://www.palantir.com/developers/ https://www.palantir.com/developers/

deleted 8mo ago

[deleted]

SilverElfin 8mo ago

No one can explain what it is. They have some bullshit “ontology” thing they talk up on every investor call and bots spam about it on twitter and reddit. I think they are basically a software consultancy firm that the government can outsource all evil deeds to. Like warrantless surveillance

fatherwavelet 8mo ago
Their "ontology" is not bullshit but they speak about it in a bullshit way. I think they refer to it like a product or something they invented as a form of marketing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontology_(information_science) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontology_(information_science) If you just google ontology you probably end up reading some Heidegger and conclude how deep these guys must be. Whenever I hear Karp say it I always think of it like he is saying "Database" or "The Database". "What makes Palantir different is Database". I think so much of Palantir is performative and for sales performances.
- caminante 8mo ago
  Here's my lived experience upthread. [0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47029837 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47029837
  - deaux 8mo ago
    You didn't talk about having used it? Talking to my mom about her knitting club and then presenting myself as having a "lived experience" in knitting would be pretty funny.
    - caminante 8mo ago
      > in knitting. Notice how you got vague here? Is it "lived experience" performing knitting, talking to your mom about knitting, asking how your mom's knitting is different than other knitting and she...struggles? If you don't see the issue, then you weren't following the thread.

nimrody 8mo ago

They have an entire youtube channel. For example, see this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF-GSj-Exms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF-GSj-Exms Some of their stuff for handling data and versioned pipelines seem very well done.

deaux 8mo ago

There are a ton of demos. There's nothing special about it. They're bad guys for sure, but in a similar vein to AWS and Microsoft. Those hospitals using AWS would be just as concerning but gather 1% of the comments on HN.