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Basically every civilization was built upon some form of slavery, and unfortunately slavery still takes place in many parts of the world. This was (and is) evil
by iamnothere 9mo ago
Basically every civilization was built upon some form of slavery, and unfortunately slavery still takes place in many parts of the world. This was (and is) evil, yet we can’t seem to eliminate it, only push it under the rug. Often we encourage near-slavery conditions in other countries, but technically the work is “voluntary” so we don’t call it slavery. Do brutal work in the tin mines or you won’t have food for your family, and your only other choice is to join an armed militia/gang. That sort of thing.
Of course in the US we still have prison labor, thanks to the 13th amendment loophole, and under-the-table labor by immigrants, who can accept low pay and terrible conditions or get deported. Louisiana’s Angola prison is literally a former plantation and still basically operates as one.
The great hope of modernity, for those who believe in it, is that machines may finally replace slaves. (China’s “dark factories” are an example of how this could work.) Sadly we may hit planetary limits before we manage to automate the worst work, and in catabolic collapse we will almost certainly return to open slavery.
(To be clear, in no way is this a justification of slavery. It’s an indictment of the human race.)
- boxed 9mo ago> Basically every civilization was built upon some form of slavery Do you count Sweden here? Denmark? Norway? Are we not civilized or do you claim we had significant slavery in post-viking times?
- iamnothere 9mo agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_slave_trade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_slave_trade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_slave_trade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_slave_trade https://www.newsinenglish.no/2014/09/28/slave-trading-past-still-haunts-norway/ https://www.newsinenglish.no/2014/09/28/slave-trading-past-s... https://cphpost.dk/2016-09-28/business-education/denmarks-own-heart-of-darkness/ https://cphpost.dk/2016-09-28/business-education/denmarks-ow... https://fondaskreyol.org/article/how-the-danish-sold-tamils-into-slavery-in-scandinavia-and-the-story-of-one-mans-escape-to https://fondaskreyol.org/article/how-the-danish-sold-tamils-... https://aaregistry.org/story/the-swedish-african-slave-trade-a-story/ https://aaregistry.org/story/the-swedish-african-slave-trade... Some of these are after Viking times. And even so, why should it only count if it’s after Viking times? You get a pass just because? Besides, you almost certainly use products that use minerals produced under conditions similar to slavery. It is not possible to escape some link to this in the modern globalized world.
- slibhb 9mo agoThe ubiquity of slavery doesn't imply that slavery was necessary for the development of modern countries/economies. It just implies that, through much of history, people didn't see anything wrong with slavery.
- iamnothere 9mo agoI never said it was necessary, only that it was universal. I suspect that the recent aversion to slavery is more of a function of our relative level of development (and the education that comes with it) than anything else. Morality can only thrive when there is a reasonable standard of living, otherwise people will find ways to justify evil. Today it seems that we are at a level of development where we can only justify slavery if it is out of sight. I hope we can advance further, but we may be at our limit, as other moral taboos are already breaking down.
- slibhb 9mo ago> I never said it was necessary, only that it was universal. Fair enough! I'm much more optimistic than you. I think we'll keep muddling along, slowly improving morally for the forseable future.
- iamnothere 9mo agoI hope you are right.
- boxed 9mo agoSweden in the 1700s was extremely poor so obviously we started from scratch anyway.
- orwin 9mo agoThe issue I have with that is that we conflate cheptel slavery and older forms of slavery. We changed the nature of slavery in the 17th century, but kept the same words to describe it.