3 ms·

No one thinks their breadboard wont catch on fire because an AI agent told them it wouldn’t. Its never been easier to learn because of these agents.

godelski 8mo ago
That's a very strong claim. I don't think people expect their circuits to ignite, LLM instruction or not. But I'd expect learning from a book or dedicated website would be less likely for that to occur. (Even accounting for bad manufacturing) You're biased because you're not considering that by definition the student is inexperienced. Unknown unknowns. Tons of people don't know very basic things (why would they?) like circuits with capacitors bring dangerous when the power is off. Why are you defending there LLM? Would you be as nice to a person? I'd expect not because these threads tend to point out a person's idiocy. I'm not sure why we give greater leeway to the machine. I'm not sure why we forgive them as if they are a student learning but someone posting similar instructions on a blog gets (rightfully) thrashed. That blog writer is almost never claiming PhD expertise I agree that LLMs can greatly aid in learning. But I also think they can greatly hinder learning. I'm not sure why anyone thinks it's any different than when people got access to the internet. We gave people access to all the information in the world and people "do their own research" and end up making egregious errors because they don't know how to research (naively think it's "searching for information"), what questions to ask, or how to interrogate data (and much more). Instead we've ended up with lots of conspiratorial thinking. Now a sycophantic search engine is going to fix that? I'm unconvinced. Mostly because we can observe the result.
- bethekidyouwant 8mo ago
  The result of more people getting into electronics because it’s easier now?
  - godelski 8mo ago
    When reading I suggest trying to interpret what the person wrote rather than just ignore it. I'd probably start by taking the advice of your username
- xvilka 8mo ago
  > We gave people access to all the information in the world and people "do their own research" and end up making egregious errors because they don't know how to research (naively think it's "searching for information"), what questions to ask, or how to interrogate data (and much more). You pin pointed a major problem with education, indeed. Personally, I think 3 crucial courses should be taught in school to mitigate that: 1) rational thinking 2) learning how to learn 3) learning how to do a research.
  - godelski 8mo ago
    I think so too, but I also think this is part of the failure of math and science education. That is exactly what those topics are. But many courses will focus on the facts and not the substance. Instead of linking Feynman's Cargo Cult Science, which also broaches this I'll link this one instead[0] as I think it better illustrates what I'm saying. [0] https://enlightenedidiot.net/random/feynman-on-brazilian-education-system/ https://enlightenedidiot.net/random/feynman-on-brazilian-edu...
zdragnar 8mo ago
Lawyers are getting in trouble because they use AI and submit fabricated citations about fabricated cases as precedent. A bunch of charges were recently thrown out in Wisconsin because of this, and it's not the first time such behavior has made the news. https://www.wpr.org/news/judge-sanctions-kenosha-county-da-ai-use-court https://www.wpr.org/news/judge-sanctions-kenosha-county-da-a... AI is indeed being understood to be an expert that replaces human judgement, and people are being hurt because of it.
- DrewADesign 8mo ago
  The real analog here would be an electronics teacher leading his students to create a circuit that caught fire. If you’re confidently giving faulty information to people that don’t know any better, you’re not teaching them.
techpression 8mo ago
In my experience people don’t use LLMs to learn but to circumvent learning.
- cwillu 8mo ago
  Exactly. I like to say that learning feels like frustration. If I'm right, then LLM's eliminate precisely the thing that is learning.
- aix1 8mo ago
  I am sure this is true. On the flip side, as someone who is addicted to learning, I've been finding LLMs to be amazing at feeding my addiction. :) Some recent examples: * foreign languages ("explain the difference between these two words that have the same English translation", "here's a photo of a mock German exam paper and here is my written answer - mark it & show how I could have done better") * domains that I'm familiar with but might not know the exact commands off the top of my head (troubleshooting some ARP weirdness across a bunch of OSX/Linux/Windows boxes on an Omada network) * learning basic skills in a new domain ("I'm building this thing out of 4mm mild steel - how do I go about choosing the right type of threading tap?", "what's the difference between Type B and Type F RCCB?") Many of these can be easily answered with a web search, but the ability to ask follow-up questions has been a game changer. I'd love to hear from other addicts - are there areas where LLMs have really accelerated your learning?
  - techpression 8mo ago
    I agree, I always ask to know more if I don’t get it or it’s a new subject. But I think we’re in the minority, it’s easier to just accept the answer and move on, it requires very little effort compared to trying to understand and retain.
  - rescbr 8mo ago
    Hah, yesterday I was discussing solar panels and moving shadows. I would have wasted money buying a commercial solar panel if I didn’t have this chat. Learned a lot on how it works, to the point I’m confident that I can go the DIY route and spend my money in AliExpress buying components instead. Why not ask a pro solar panel installer instead? I live in an apartment, of course they would say it’s not possible to place a solar panel on my terrace. I don’t believe in things not being possible. But I had two semesters of electronics/robotics in my CS undergrad and I know to not to trust the LLM blindly and verify.

godelski 8mo ago

That's a very strong claim. I don't think people expect their circuits to ignite, LLM instruction or not. But I'd expect learning from a book or dedicated website would be less likely for that to occur. (Even accounting for bad manufacturing) You're biased because you're not considering that by definition the student is inexperienced. Unknown unknowns. Tons of people don't know very basic things (why would they?) like circuits with capacitors bring dangerous when the power is off. Why are you defending there LLM? Would you be as nice to a person? I'd expect not because these threads tend to point out a person's idiocy. I'm not sure why we give greater leeway to the machine. I'm not sure why we forgive them as if they are a student learning but someone posting similar instructions on a blog gets (rightfully) thrashed. That blog writer is almost never claiming PhD expertise I agree that LLMs can greatly aid in learning. But I also think they can greatly hinder learning. I'm not sure why anyone thinks it's any different than when people got access to the internet. We gave people access to all the information in the world and people "do their own research" and end up making egregious errors because they don't know how to research (naively think it's "searching for information"), what questions to ask, or how to interrogate data (and much more). Instead we've ended up with lots of conspiratorial thinking. Now a sycophantic search engine is going to fix that? I'm unconvinced. Mostly because we can observe the result.

bethekidyouwant 8mo ago
The result of more people getting into electronics because it’s easier now?
- godelski 8mo ago
  When reading I suggest trying to interpret what the person wrote rather than just ignore it. I'd probably start by taking the advice of your username
xvilka 8mo ago
> We gave people access to all the information in the world and people "do their own research" and end up making egregious errors because they don't know how to research (naively think it's "searching for information"), what questions to ask, or how to interrogate data (and much more). You pin pointed a major problem with education, indeed. Personally, I think 3 crucial courses should be taught in school to mitigate that: 1) rational thinking 2) learning how to learn 3) learning how to do a research.
- godelski 8mo ago
  I think so too, but I also think this is part of the failure of math and science education. That is exactly what those topics are. But many courses will focus on the facts and not the substance. Instead of linking Feynman's Cargo Cult Science, which also broaches this I'll link this one instead[0] as I think it better illustrates what I'm saying. [0] https://enlightenedidiot.net/random/feynman-on-brazilian-education-system/ https://enlightenedidiot.net/random/feynman-on-brazilian-edu...

zdragnar 8mo ago

Lawyers are getting in trouble because they use AI and submit fabricated citations about fabricated cases as precedent. A bunch of charges were recently thrown out in Wisconsin because of this, and it's not the first time such behavior has made the news. https://www.wpr.org/news/judge-sanctions-kenosha-county-da-ai-use-court https://www.wpr.org/news/judge-sanctions-kenosha-county-da-a... AI is indeed being understood to be an expert that replaces human judgement, and people are being hurt because of it.

DrewADesign 8mo ago
The real analog here would be an electronics teacher leading his students to create a circuit that caught fire. If you’re confidently giving faulty information to people that don’t know any better, you’re not teaching them.

techpression 8mo ago

In my experience people don’t use LLMs to learn but to circumvent learning.

cwillu 8mo ago
Exactly. I like to say that learning feels like frustration. If I'm right, then LLM's eliminate precisely the thing that is learning.
aix1 8mo ago
I am sure this is true. On the flip side, as someone who is addicted to learning, I've been finding LLMs to be amazing at feeding my addiction. :) Some recent examples: * foreign languages ("explain the difference between these two words that have the same English translation", "here's a photo of a mock German exam paper and here is my written answer - mark it & show how I could have done better") * domains that I'm familiar with but might not know the exact commands off the top of my head (troubleshooting some ARP weirdness across a bunch of OSX/Linux/Windows boxes on an Omada network) * learning basic skills in a new domain ("I'm building this thing out of 4mm mild steel - how do I go about choosing the right type of threading tap?", "what's the difference between Type B and Type F RCCB?") Many of these can be easily answered with a web search, but the ability to ask follow-up questions has been a game changer. I'd love to hear from other addicts - are there areas where LLMs have really accelerated your learning?
- techpression 8mo ago
  I agree, I always ask to know more if I don’t get it or it’s a new subject. But I think we’re in the minority, it’s easier to just accept the answer and move on, it requires very little effort compared to trying to understand and retain.
- rescbr 8mo ago
  Hah, yesterday I was discussing solar panels and moving shadows. I would have wasted money buying a commercial solar panel if I didn’t have this chat. Learned a lot on how it works, to the point I’m confident that I can go the DIY route and spend my money in AliExpress buying components instead. Why not ask a pro solar panel installer instead? I live in an apartment, of course they would say it’s not possible to place a solar panel on my terrace. I don’t believe in things not being possible. But I had two semesters of electronics/robotics in my CS undergrad and I know to not to trust the LLM blindly and verify.