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So what you are saying is that these places have not built enough housing. That sounds like the actual problem, not the population size.
by outside1234 8mo ago
So what you are saying is that these places have not built enough housing. That sounds like the actual problem, not the population size.
- api 8mo ago“We will do literally anything to make housing more affordable except build more of it.” Forget where I first saw that but it’s absolutely true. The left will try rent control, subsidies, taxes and prohibitions against speculation, banning AirBnB, etc. The right will try mass deportations and population caps. Nobody will build more housing because that would work, and home owners are incentivized not to do anything that would work, and homeowners vote in much larger numbers. The problem won’t be solved until renters out vote homeowners and until everyone who wants more affordable housing stops advocating the solutions that will not work.
- kelseyfrog 8mo agoHow? I can't seem to affect any control the factors that constraint housing. I want to build more, but short of becoming a developer myself, I'm powerless. Even if I were a developer, I'd likely be subject to the same structural forces.
- api 8mo agoThe main impediments are density limits, zoning, onerous permitting requirements, lawsuits from NIMBY groups to block everything, and so on. The entire developed world is basically a big housing cartel where existing home owners work to limit supply to keep the price high.
- kelseyfrog 8mo agoIt feels like the most effective strategy is to Simple Sabotage[1] Field Manual the NIMBY groups. Am I picking up what you're putting down? 1. https://www.cia.gov/static/5c875f3ec660e092cf893f60b4a288df/SimpleSabotage.pdf https://www.cia.gov/static/5c875f3ec660e092cf893f60b4a288df/...
- gizmondo 8mo agoIn Switzerland most people rent, in Zurich/Geneva it's more than 80% of inhabitants, doesn't help one bit. I kid you not, we have the renter association that is working tirelessly to prevent new construction.
- api 8mo agoI guess the motives are not just financial. They’re also just general opposition to change. There was this weird period after WWII where we built tons of housing. It was a major factor in building the largest middle class in human history. Then we stopped.
- rendang 8mo agoI support YIMBYism for ones own countrymen but I don't see the need to fit as many people as possible in your country. A Switzerland with 25 million people will be a worse place to live regardless of whether the housing supply keeps up
- kelseyfrog 8mo agoOnly the market can decide what's better or worse. Revealed preference is truer than words.
- ndriscoll 8mo agoWouldn't a referendum to limit immigration be the way to reveal their preference? Obviously immigrants would tautologically prefer to move there. How is a citizen to "vote" against that via the market? Discriminate and refuse to rent/sell to any immigrants? Charge them more to try to offset their perceived loss of utility? What portion of the country is even in a position to be asked the question via the market?
- kelseyfrog 8mo agoNo, because money is the only thing that measures value. People vote against their interests all the time.
- ndriscoll 8mo agoAgain, how is money supposed to measure value here? Are people supposed to look into whether every company interacts with immigrants in any way and then boycott them if they do? The only avenue I see is for people to look at the aggregate economic benefits of immigration and then decide to limit it anyway, effectively treating the opportunity cost as the price they're willing to pay.
- kelseyfrog 8mo agoMoney measures value numerically. Yes.