6 ms·

I don't want to be rude but like, maybe you should pre-register some statement like "LLMs will not be able to do X" in some concrete domain, because I suspect y

I don't want to be rude but like, maybe you should pre-register some statement like "LLMs will not be able to do X" in some concrete domain, because I suspect your goalposts are shifting without you noticing. We're talking about significant contributions to theoretical physics. You can nitpick but honestly go back to your expectations 4 years ago and think — would I be pretty surprised and impressed if an AI could do this? The answer is obviously yes, I don't really care whether you have a selective memory of that time.

deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
nozzlegear 9mo ago
> We're talking about significant contributions to theoretical physics. Whoever wrote the prompts and guided ChatGPT made significant contributions to theoretical physics. ChatGPT is just a tool they used to get there. I'm sure AI-bloviators and pelican bike-enjoyers are all quite impressed, but the humans should be getting the research credit for using their tools correctly. Let's not pretend the calculator doing its job as a calculator at the behest of the researcher is actually a researcher as well.
- famouswaffles 9mo ago
  If this worked for 12 hours to derive the simplified formula along with its proof then it guided itself and made significant contributions by any useful definition of the word, hence Open AI having an author credit.
  - nozzlegear 9mo ago
    > hence Open AI having an author credit. How much precedence is there for machines or tools getting an author credit in research? Genuine question, I don't actually know. Would we give an author credit to e.g. a chimpanzee if it happened to circle the right page of a text book while working with researchers, leading them to a eureka moment?
    - kuboble 9mo ago
      I have seem stuff like "you can use my program if you will make me a co-author". That usually comes up with some support usually.
    - famouswaffles 9mo ago
      >How much precedence is there for machines or tools getting an author credit in research? Well what do you think ? Do the authors (or a single symbolic one) of pytorch or numpy or insert <very useful software> typically get credits on papers that utilize them heavily? Well Clearly these prominent institutions thought GPT's contribution significant enough to warrant an Open AI credit. >Would we give an author credit to e.g. a chimpanzee if it happened to circle the right page of a text book while working with researchers, leading them to a eureka moment? Cool Story. Good thing that's not what happened so maybe we can do away with all these pointless non sequiturs yeah ? If you want to have a good faith argument, you're welcome to it, but if you're going to go on these nonsensical tangents, it's best we end this here.
      - nozzlegear 9mo ago
        > Well what do you think ? Do the authors (or a single symbolic one) of pytorch or numpy or insert <very useful software> typically get credits on papers that utilize them heavily ? I don't know! That's why I asked. > Well Clearly these prominent institutions thought GPT's contribution significant enough to warrant an Open AI credit. Contribution is a fitting word, I think, and well chosen. I'm sure OpenAI's contribution was quite large, quite green and quite full of Benjamins. > Cool Story. Good thing that's not what happened so maybe we can do away with all these pointless non sequiturs yeah ? If you want to have a good faith argument, you're welcome to it, but if you're going to go on these nonsensical tangents, it's best we end this here. It was a genuine question. What's the difference between a chimpanzee and a computer? Neither are humans and neither should be credited as authors on a research paper, unless the institution receives a fat stack of cash I guess. But alas Jane Goodall wasn't exactly flush with money and sycophants in the way OpenAI currently is.
        9mo ago
- bpodgursky 9mo ago
  If a helicopter drops someone off on the top of Mount Everest, it's reasonable to say that the helicopter did the work and is not just a tool they used to hike up the mountain.
  - nozzlegear 9mo ago
    Who piloted the helicopter in this scenario, a human or chatgpt? You'd say the pilot dropped them off in a helicopter. The helicopter didn't fly itself there.
    - bpodgursky 9mo ago
      “They have chosen cunning instead of belief. Their prison is only in their minds, yet they are in that prison; and so afraid of being taken in that they cannot be taken out.” ― C.S. Lewis, The Last Battle
      - nozzlegear 9mo ago
        "For me, it is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." — Carl Sagan
        bpodgursky 9mo ago
        I read the narnia series many times as a kid and this one stuck with me, I didn't prompt for it. I have no real way to demonstrate that I'm telling the truth, but I am ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
        nozzlegear 9mo ago
        Sorry for the assumption. For what it's worth, I read one of Sagan's books last year, but pulled the quote from Goodreads :P
RandomLensman 9mo ago
I don't know enought about theoretical physics: what makes it a significant contribution there?
- epolanski 9mo ago
  Not every contribution has immediate impact.
  - terminalbraid 9mo ago
    That doesn't answer the question. That statement just admits "maybe" which isn't helpful or insightful to answering it.
- terminalbraid 9mo ago
  It's a nontrivial calculation valid for a class of forces (e.g. QCD) and apparently a serious simplification to a specific calculation that hadn't been completed before. But for what it's worth, I spent a good part of my physics career working in nucleon structure and have not run across the term "single minus amplitudes" in my memory. That doesn't necessarily mean much as there's a very broad space work like this takes place in and some of it gets extremely arcane and technical. One way I gauge the significance of a theory paper are the measured quantities and physical processes it would contribute to. I see none discussed here which should tell you how deep into math it is. I personally would not have stopped to read it on my arxiv catch-up https://arxiv.org/list/hep-th/new https://arxiv.org/list/hep-th/new Maybe to characterize it better, physicists were not holding their breath waiting for this to get done.
  - RandomLensman 9mo ago
    Thank you!
outlace 9mo ago
I never said LLMs will not be able to do X. I gave my summary of the article and my anecdotal experiences with LLMs. I have no LLM ideology. We will see what tomorrow brings.

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]

nozzlegear 9mo ago

> We're talking about significant contributions to theoretical physics. Whoever wrote the prompts and guided ChatGPT made significant contributions to theoretical physics. ChatGPT is just a tool they used to get there. I'm sure AI-bloviators and pelican bike-enjoyers are all quite impressed, but the humans should be getting the research credit for using their tools correctly. Let's not pretend the calculator doing its job as a calculator at the behest of the researcher is actually a researcher as well.

famouswaffles 9mo ago
If this worked for 12 hours to derive the simplified formula along with its proof then it guided itself and made significant contributions by any useful definition of the word, hence Open AI having an author credit.
- nozzlegear 9mo ago
  > hence Open AI having an author credit. How much precedence is there for machines or tools getting an author credit in research? Genuine question, I don't actually know. Would we give an author credit to e.g. a chimpanzee if it happened to circle the right page of a text book while working with researchers, leading them to a eureka moment?
  - kuboble 9mo ago
    I have seem stuff like "you can use my program if you will make me a co-author". That usually comes up with some support usually.
  - famouswaffles 9mo ago
    >How much precedence is there for machines or tools getting an author credit in research? Well what do you think ? Do the authors (or a single symbolic one) of pytorch or numpy or insert <very useful software> typically get credits on papers that utilize them heavily? Well Clearly these prominent institutions thought GPT's contribution significant enough to warrant an Open AI credit. >Would we give an author credit to e.g. a chimpanzee if it happened to circle the right page of a text book while working with researchers, leading them to a eureka moment? Cool Story. Good thing that's not what happened so maybe we can do away with all these pointless non sequiturs yeah ? If you want to have a good faith argument, you're welcome to it, but if you're going to go on these nonsensical tangents, it's best we end this here.
    - nozzlegear 9mo ago
      > Well what do you think ? Do the authors (or a single symbolic one) of pytorch or numpy or insert <very useful software> typically get credits on papers that utilize them heavily ? I don't know! That's why I asked. > Well Clearly these prominent institutions thought GPT's contribution significant enough to warrant an Open AI credit. Contribution is a fitting word, I think, and well chosen. I'm sure OpenAI's contribution was quite large, quite green and quite full of Benjamins. > Cool Story. Good thing that's not what happened so maybe we can do away with all these pointless non sequiturs yeah ? If you want to have a good faith argument, you're welcome to it, but if you're going to go on these nonsensical tangents, it's best we end this here. It was a genuine question. What's the difference between a chimpanzee and a computer? Neither are humans and neither should be credited as authors on a research paper, unless the institution receives a fat stack of cash I guess. But alas Jane Goodall wasn't exactly flush with money and sycophants in the way OpenAI currently is.
      - 9mo ago
bpodgursky 9mo ago
If a helicopter drops someone off on the top of Mount Everest, it's reasonable to say that the helicopter did the work and is not just a tool they used to hike up the mountain.
- nozzlegear 9mo ago
  Who piloted the helicopter in this scenario, a human or chatgpt? You'd say the pilot dropped them off in a helicopter. The helicopter didn't fly itself there.
  - bpodgursky 9mo ago
    “They have chosen cunning instead of belief. Their prison is only in their minds, yet they are in that prison; and so afraid of being taken in that they cannot be taken out.” ― C.S. Lewis, The Last Battle
    - nozzlegear 9mo ago
      "For me, it is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." — Carl Sagan
      - bpodgursky 9mo ago
        I read the narnia series many times as a kid and this one stuck with me, I didn't prompt for it. I have no real way to demonstrate that I'm telling the truth, but I am ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
        nozzlegear 9mo ago
        Sorry for the assumption. For what it's worth, I read one of Sagan's books last year, but pulled the quote from Goodreads :P

RandomLensman 9mo ago

I don't know enought about theoretical physics: what makes it a significant contribution there?

epolanski 9mo ago
Not every contribution has immediate impact.
- terminalbraid 9mo ago
  That doesn't answer the question. That statement just admits "maybe" which isn't helpful or insightful to answering it.
terminalbraid 9mo ago
It's a nontrivial calculation valid for a class of forces (e.g. QCD) and apparently a serious simplification to a specific calculation that hadn't been completed before. But for what it's worth, I spent a good part of my physics career working in nucleon structure and have not run across the term "single minus amplitudes" in my memory. That doesn't necessarily mean much as there's a very broad space work like this takes place in and some of it gets extremely arcane and technical. One way I gauge the significance of a theory paper are the measured quantities and physical processes it would contribute to. I see none discussed here which should tell you how deep into math it is. I personally would not have stopped to read it on my arxiv catch-up https://arxiv.org/list/hep-th/new https://arxiv.org/list/hep-th/new Maybe to characterize it better, physicists were not holding their breath waiting for this to get done.
- RandomLensman 9mo ago
  Thank you!

outlace 9mo ago

I never said LLMs will not be able to do X. I gave my summary of the article and my anecdotal experiences with LLMs. I have no LLM ideology. We will see what tomorrow brings.