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How hard would it be to sell a solution that makes it easy for a consumer to set up on-site recording? Ship a small box loaded with Tailscale and some software

How hard would it be to sell a solution that makes it easy for a consumer to set up on-site recording? Ship a small box loaded with Tailscale and some software that connects to cameras over a LAN, and runs a webserver that allows user logins through a web interface. Nothing needs to go into the cloud. Yes, then you sell it once to a customer and that's it. No subscription or planned obsolescence. Fine, so factor that into the price. Make your money and go on to do other good things.

iamnothere 9mo ago
It’s called an NVR and there’s a whole industry of companies catering to this, though you rarely hear about it in the news. There are plenty of consumer options in the space too.
dylan604 9mo ago
They have been selling NVR based camera systems for decades. It's clunky. It takes a network savvy person to open up their home network to allow remote access. It takes an even savvier person to not do that in a way that guarantees getting their network pwnd. Having a cloud based solution from an ethical company would be the consumer friendly solution people are actually wanting. Lots of people are willing to spend money to make problems go away.
- noduerme 9mo ago
  I know businesses that have these setups and outside tech support to maintain them. I've also seen them have all kinds of issues when routers are replaced or they change ISPs. That's why I was saying a company could sell a box preloaded with Tailscale and a custom installer that walks a non-technical person through it. The default setup for a tailnet is pretty safe. Yeah you could have your own signaling servers or whatever, but TS usually manages to punch right through most NAT issues. They don't need a reverse proxy to login to their private webserver, although I guess you could provide that as an add-on service. They just need TS on their phone. [edit] To my mind, the biggest hurdle wouldn't be networking to allow this box to host its own app that was accessible to the user from elsewhere. The hurdles would be things like lack of "smart" reporting / facial recognition, backup power, backup connectivity, etc..But in theory, a repurposed smartphone as the platform could solve the backup power and connection issues.
- crote 9mo ago
  This isn't an inherently unsolvable problem. Peer-to-peer file sharing and video calls have been able to work around it for ages. The same approach could be used for cameras - see for example Home Assistant's remote access. Sure, you'd still need a cloud-based STUN-like discovery service, but a small one-time fee should easily cover operating it.
  - noduerme 9mo ago
    Right..Or instead of STUN/TURN just use Tailscale for now. I think the reason no one's packaged this into a slick Ring-like plug-and-play probably comes down to corporate greed and how hard it is to raise money if your intention is to start a business that doesn't have ever-expanding verticals. Like, this is a set of solved problems. They just need to be smoothed and packed for the user.
    - dylan604 9mo ago
      You seem pretty sure of yourself. So when will you be releasing this product that you claim is such low hanging fruit? Right, now you know why this product doesn't exist.
      - fc417fc802 9mo ago
        He just explained why. Because packaging, QA, setting up a storefront, customer service, the sum total requires significant up front investment to get off the ground. Good luck raising money when your pitch is "we won't be greedy and do the things that could make even more money". Or was your intent merely to taunt him for failing to be independently wealthy?
        noduerme 9mo ago
        Like, thank you. Obviously. This is why I don't want to start a public facing business and why it's almost impossible for a person with some good ideas and a modest savings account who could build something better to do it without putting themselves in a compromised position by taking investment. If you go it alone, you basically have to put your entire net worth on the line to see whether something works, and then the second it takes off, God help you you are going to be litigated or bullied into the ground. But I still kind of have some of that old 90s / early 2000s faith that I will one day hit upon the Big Idea that I can code and bootstrap myself, and turn a profit from day one when I launch it, and never need investors. I doubt a home camera system is the one. But I have a whole wall in my office with taped-up post-its and index cards and papers, each with hand-written startup ideas. Any of which I could conceivably code and profit from if I wasn't afraid to spend 6-12 months on it and thought it could survive the regulatory environment and everything else that might come with releasing it onto the world. And that's not my job - I just keep those up there and add to them for inspiration. I just want to make shit, not deal with the business of navigating the whole corrupt world of funding and kosherizing it. Anyway, thanks.
- izacus 9mo ago
  I never had to use a "network savvy person" to have people connect to their TP-Link or Reolink cameras at home. The cameras record to SD cards (or NVRs) just fine. Stop spreading lying FUD please.

iamnothere 9mo ago

It’s called an NVR and there’s a whole industry of companies catering to this, though you rarely hear about it in the news. There are plenty of consumer options in the space too.

dylan604 9mo ago

They have been selling NVR based camera systems for decades. It's clunky. It takes a network savvy person to open up their home network to allow remote access. It takes an even savvier person to not do that in a way that guarantees getting their network pwnd. Having a cloud based solution from an ethical company would be the consumer friendly solution people are actually wanting. Lots of people are willing to spend money to make problems go away.

noduerme 9mo ago
I know businesses that have these setups and outside tech support to maintain them. I've also seen them have all kinds of issues when routers are replaced or they change ISPs. That's why I was saying a company could sell a box preloaded with Tailscale and a custom installer that walks a non-technical person through it. The default setup for a tailnet is pretty safe. Yeah you could have your own signaling servers or whatever, but TS usually manages to punch right through most NAT issues. They don't need a reverse proxy to login to their private webserver, although I guess you could provide that as an add-on service. They just need TS on their phone. [edit] To my mind, the biggest hurdle wouldn't be networking to allow this box to host its own app that was accessible to the user from elsewhere. The hurdles would be things like lack of "smart" reporting / facial recognition, backup power, backup connectivity, etc..But in theory, a repurposed smartphone as the platform could solve the backup power and connection issues.
crote 9mo ago
This isn't an inherently unsolvable problem. Peer-to-peer file sharing and video calls have been able to work around it for ages. The same approach could be used for cameras - see for example Home Assistant's remote access. Sure, you'd still need a cloud-based STUN-like discovery service, but a small one-time fee should easily cover operating it.
- noduerme 9mo ago
  Right..Or instead of STUN/TURN just use Tailscale for now. I think the reason no one's packaged this into a slick Ring-like plug-and-play probably comes down to corporate greed and how hard it is to raise money if your intention is to start a business that doesn't have ever-expanding verticals. Like, this is a set of solved problems. They just need to be smoothed and packed for the user.
  - dylan604 9mo ago
    You seem pretty sure of yourself. So when will you be releasing this product that you claim is such low hanging fruit? Right, now you know why this product doesn't exist.
    - fc417fc802 9mo ago
      He just explained why. Because packaging, QA, setting up a storefront, customer service, the sum total requires significant up front investment to get off the ground. Good luck raising money when your pitch is "we won't be greedy and do the things that could make even more money". Or was your intent merely to taunt him for failing to be independently wealthy?
      - noduerme 9mo ago
        Like, thank you. Obviously. This is why I don't want to start a public facing business and why it's almost impossible for a person with some good ideas and a modest savings account who could build something better to do it without putting themselves in a compromised position by taking investment. If you go it alone, you basically have to put your entire net worth on the line to see whether something works, and then the second it takes off, God help you you are going to be litigated or bullied into the ground. But I still kind of have some of that old 90s / early 2000s faith that I will one day hit upon the Big Idea that I can code and bootstrap myself, and turn a profit from day one when I launch it, and never need investors. I doubt a home camera system is the one. But I have a whole wall in my office with taped-up post-its and index cards and papers, each with hand-written startup ideas. Any of which I could conceivably code and profit from if I wasn't afraid to spend 6-12 months on it and thought it could survive the regulatory environment and everything else that might come with releasing it onto the world. And that's not my job - I just keep those up there and add to them for inspiration. I just want to make shit, not deal with the business of navigating the whole corrupt world of funding and kosherizing it. Anyway, thanks.
izacus 9mo ago
I never had to use a "network savvy person" to have people connect to their TP-Link or Reolink cameras at home. The cameras record to SD cards (or NVRs) just fine. Stop spreading lying FUD please.