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Do people bash pandas? If so, it reminds me of Bjarne's quip that the two types of programming languages are the ones people complain about and the ones nobody

Do people bash pandas? If so, it reminds me of Bjarne's quip that the two types of programming languages are the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses.

postexitus 8mo ago
polars people do - although I wouldn't call polars something that nobody uses.
- ayhanfuat 8mo ago
  I also use polars in new projects. I think Wes McKinney also uses it. If I remember correctly I saw him commenting on some polars memory related issues on GitHub. But a good chunk of polars' success can be attributed to Arrow which McKinney co-created. All the gripes people have with pandas, he had them too and built something powerful to overcome those.
  - mistrial9 8mo ago
    I saw Wes speak in the early days of Pandas, in Berkeley. He solved problems that others just worked around for decades. His solutions are quirky but the work was very solid. His career advanced a lot IMHO for substantial reasons.. Wes personally marched through swamps and reached the other side.. others complain and do what they always have done.. I personally agree with the criticisms of the syntax, but Pandas is real and it was not easy to build it.
hodapp 8mo ago
The creator of Pandas even bashes it: https://wesmckinney.com/blog/apache-arrow-pandas-internals/ https://wesmckinney.com/blog/apache-arrow-pandas-internals/
- fud101 8mo ago
  have these 'improvements' been backported to pandas now? i would expect it to close the gap over time.
  - benrutter 8mo ago
    Yes (mostly) is the answer. You can use arrow as a backend, and I think with v3 (recently released) it's the default. The harder thing to overcome is that pandas has historically had a pretty "say yes to things" culture. That's probably a huge part of its success, but it means there are now about 5 ways to add a column to a dataframe. Adding support for arrow is a really big achievement, but shrinking an oversized api is even more ambitious.
- imtringued 8mo ago
  He missed talking about the poor extensibility of pandas. It's missing some pretty obvious primitives to implement your own operators without whipping out slow for loops and appending to lists manually.
rlh2 8mo ago
People also love to hate R but data.table is light years better than pandas in my view

Do people bash pandas? If so, it reminds me of Bjarne's quip that the two types of programming languages are the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses.

postexitus 8mo ago

polars people do - although I wouldn't call polars something that nobody uses.

ayhanfuat 8mo ago
I also use polars in new projects. I think Wes McKinney also uses it. If I remember correctly I saw him commenting on some polars memory related issues on GitHub. But a good chunk of polars' success can be attributed to Arrow which McKinney co-created. All the gripes people have with pandas, he had them too and built something powerful to overcome those.
- mistrial9 8mo ago
  I saw Wes speak in the early days of Pandas, in Berkeley. He solved problems that others just worked around for decades. His solutions are quirky but the work was very solid. His career advanced a lot IMHO for substantial reasons.. Wes personally marched through swamps and reached the other side.. others complain and do what they always have done.. I personally agree with the criticisms of the syntax, but Pandas is real and it was not easy to build it.

hodapp 8mo ago

The creator of Pandas even bashes it: https://wesmckinney.com/blog/apache-arrow-pandas-internals/ https://wesmckinney.com/blog/apache-arrow-pandas-internals/

fud101 8mo ago
have these 'improvements' been backported to pandas now? i would expect it to close the gap over time.
- benrutter 8mo ago
  Yes (mostly) is the answer. You can use arrow as a backend, and I think with v3 (recently released) it's the default. The harder thing to overcome is that pandas has historically had a pretty "say yes to things" culture. That's probably a huge part of its success, but it means there are now about 5 ways to add a column to a dataframe. Adding support for arrow is a really big achievement, but shrinking an oversized api is even more ambitious.
imtringued 8mo ago
He missed talking about the poor extensibility of pandas. It's missing some pretty obvious primitives to implement your own operators without whipping out slow for loops and appending to lists manually.

rlh2 8mo ago

People also love to hate R but data.table is light years better than pandas in my view