4 ms·

Rare, dangerous side effects of some Covid-19 vaccines explained

34 points by epistasis 9mo ago

mhitza 9mo ago
> vaccine-induced immune thrombocytopenia and thrombosis (VITT) > According to the European Medicines Agency, about 900 VITT cases have been reported after immunization with the AstraZeneca or J&J vaccines in Europe, including 200 deaths. Few data are available about the rest of the world, even though more than 3 billion doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine were administered globally. > It’s not clear whether the syndrome was rarer outside Europe or whether cases were missed. In most parts of the world, between 40% and 60% of the population has the genetic background that makes people more prone to VITT, but in East Asia the prevalence is only 20%. Other factors, too, might contribute to the rare cases when they happen. This is such a crazy fact. I didn't know the AstraZeneca was administered at that scale. I remember the quick switch to the Pfizer–BioNTech vaccine previsely as precautionary because of the AstraZeneca shot. Our (Romanian) army personal was mostly the one subjected to this vaccine.
- wtewoman 9mo ago
  [flagged]
- drq 9mo ago
  Yes, I received two doses of AZ. My wife, who has thrombophilia, received both doses of Pfizer, as her case was deemed too risky for AZ. I had a fever in both cases for almost a day after the shot, my wife had no side effects. None.
Aeglaecia 9mo ago
[flagged]
- epistasis 9mo ago
  You face resistance for an inflammatory and incorrect framing, not for talking about vaccine safety. Everybody was talking about the safety of vaccines, which is why many governments moved away from this vaccine in favor of others. To complain about downvotes you should realize that people are reading your entire comment, not just the bland non-controversial parts. Playing a fake victim might be good for your feelings but it's bad for examining the truth.
  - wtewoman 9mo ago
    [flagged]
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
  - normalaccess 9mo ago
    "Everybody was talking about the safety of vaccines" Every platform on earth Shadow Banned and blocked people if you said anything other than "Safe and Effective"... Real conversation was shut down on a nation state level. Not exactly a scientific or logical way to discuss experimental injectable therapeutics.
    - epistasis 9mo ago
      > Every platform on earth Shadow Banned and blocked people if you said anything other than "Safe and Effective"... Absolutely false. Safety of this vaccine was talked about all over. I did it, and I was never shadow banned. Somehow there was enough discussion of this specific vaccine to enable a recall, even! Search the news and it was all over at the time, found a ton of articles just now with a web search. There's so much documentary evidence to directly contradict your very weird claims. If you were shadowbanned, it was either a very rare occurrence, or perhaps you were talking about something else?
      - razingeden 9mo ago
        Well good for you. I’m still permanently banned from Xitter just for explaining what GoF even is. Im sure it has nothing to do with Allison Fauci being a Twitter systems engineer at the time. Selective enforcement doesn’t mean it didn’t happen just because you’re still online.
        epistasis 9mo ago
        Look, I know we're supposed to "believe women" and all, but in my personal experience every time I have followed up on the "They're censoring me for my views" thread it has not resulted in a conservative person being censored for tax policy and advocating for limited government, but instead, "you know the views" that amount to harassment. I admit I could be wrong, but my Bayesian prior from past data is pretty strong. So I'm hesitant to believe without evidence. I understand if others have a very different prior, but I can't deny my past experience. In the past I've hesitated to even get involved with these discussions because they all seemed far too low signal to noise, and in fact lead to huge amounts of dangerous toxicity, but in these dangerous times I think it's important to interact more even if it's very unpleasant. I already got my first-ever "kill yourself" response to what was an extremely restrained comment response. We all see what goes on these discussions, we all see the common mischaracterizations, so if you want to overturn what people have seen in the past it's going to take documented evidence, I think.
- curtisf 9mo ago
  Conscription is horribly inapt metaphor for mandatory inoculation. Banning the playing of third-party Russian roulette, where you hold a mostly unloaded gun to the head of your neighbors, coworkers, and service staff, actually more accurately represents the risks involved to both yourself and the public, and importantly to the personal tax and effort required.
  - Aeglaecia 9mo ago
    what about when a veteran returns from war with ptsd that can be triggered at any point and potentially result in violence to those around them ? thats about the same net effect as walking around with a loaded gun to everyones head , the only difference is the comparability in numbers. as well the covid death rates for young people are a fraction of the death rates of the elderly, who do deserve to be taken care of but ultimately are a net drain to society. so your comment is better stated as holding a gun to the head of the elderly ... which is horrible but not quite the same argument.
  - hikkerl 9mo ago
    [flagged]
salodeus 9mo ago
It seems that AstraZenaca has become a scapegoat for Pharmaceutical companies, so people can say "oh it was just that one bad vaccine with one rare side effect."
- epistasis 9mo ago
  Could you expand on this a bit? I don't think that AstraZeneca has suffered any reputational damage from this, it's an extremely rare event that took broad monitoring to even discover. 200 documented deaths in what are likely hundreds of millions of doses is the type of thing that speaks to a very robust medical monitoring system. > "oh it was just that one bad vaccine with one rare side effect." What do reference by the "it" here? There were 1.2 million COVID deaths in the US alone which seems like the most notable "it" to reference but it doesn't really fit with the rest of the sentence.
- bulbar 9mo ago
  Most likely a lot of medication you have taken in your live have a low probability to kill you. It's just virtually no other class of medication/vaccine has the same degree of monitoring in place so we can't even measure such rare events. In comparison, back then I looked up the typical all cause death probability within a year for the age group 20-40 (in Germany) and it turns out, getting covid19 without vaccine increases that by 700%. A relative increase of a very small number is still very small number. However, worse then astrazenaca and the 700% that's only death, there's a lot that is not deadly but still very bad. The involved risks with astrazenaca makes taking it - compared to no vaccine at all - a no brainer in comparison.
6510 9mo ago
[flagged]
- RupertSalt 9mo ago
  This is a salient point: the mRNA method of inoculation is radically different from conventional "vaccines" as invented by Sabin and Salk (peace be upon them). The traditional vaccines rely on a large industrial supply of chicken eggs or other precursors, even human stem cells. The manufacturers of traditional vaccines need to culture trillions of colonies of virulent strains, and store those viruses colonies long enough to weaken/kill them and then assemble a vaccine with the remnants. Sorry, I meant "contain them with biohazard safety facilities and protocols" which are euphemistically known as "labs". I found essentially no moral objection to mRNA inoculations, unless you consider that the fungible funds we pay are going to the same pharmaceutical virus factories that manufacture and store influenza, polio, pertussis, tetanus, and other dangerous organisms. It would be really cool if we, as a civilization, could move past that stage, or at least enact treaties and disarmament protocols for the nations which are stockpiling them. But somehow, the general public doesn't see it that way.
KevinMS 9mo ago
This is getting flagged?
- drukenemo 9mo ago
  Of course, because this is a democratic place for open discussion (irony)

34 points by epistasis 9mo ago

> vaccine-induced immune thrombocytopenia and thrombosis (VITT) > According to the European Medicines Agency, about 900 VITT cases have been reported after immunization with the AstraZeneca or J&J vaccines in Europe, including 200 deaths. Few data are available about the rest of the world, even though more than 3 billion doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine were administered globally. > It’s not clear whether the syndrome was rarer outside Europe or whether cases were missed. In most parts of the world, between 40% and 60% of the population has the genetic background that makes people more prone to VITT, but in East Asia the prevalence is only 20%. Other factors, too, might contribute to the rare cases when they happen. This is such a crazy fact. I didn't know the AstraZeneca was administered at that scale. I remember the quick switch to the Pfizer–BioNTech vaccine previsely as precautionary because of the AstraZeneca shot. Our (Romanian) army personal was mostly the one subjected to this vaccine.

wtewoman 9mo ago
[flagged]
drq 9mo ago
Yes, I received two doses of AZ. My wife, who has thrombophilia, received both doses of Pfizer, as her case was deemed too risky for AZ. I had a fever in both cases for almost a day after the shot, my wife had no side effects. None.

Aeglaecia 9mo ago

[flagged]

epistasis 9mo ago
You face resistance for an inflammatory and incorrect framing, not for talking about vaccine safety. Everybody was talking about the safety of vaccines, which is why many governments moved away from this vaccine in favor of others. To complain about downvotes you should realize that people are reading your entire comment, not just the bland non-controversial parts. Playing a fake victim might be good for your feelings but it's bad for examining the truth.
- wtewoman 9mo ago
  [flagged]
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
- normalaccess 9mo ago
  "Everybody was talking about the safety of vaccines" Every platform on earth Shadow Banned and blocked people if you said anything other than "Safe and Effective"... Real conversation was shut down on a nation state level. Not exactly a scientific or logical way to discuss experimental injectable therapeutics.
  - epistasis 9mo ago
    > Every platform on earth Shadow Banned and blocked people if you said anything other than "Safe and Effective"... Absolutely false. Safety of this vaccine was talked about all over. I did it, and I was never shadow banned. Somehow there was enough discussion of this specific vaccine to enable a recall, even! Search the news and it was all over at the time, found a ton of articles just now with a web search. There's so much documentary evidence to directly contradict your very weird claims. If you were shadowbanned, it was either a very rare occurrence, or perhaps you were talking about something else?
    - razingeden 9mo ago
      Well good for you. I’m still permanently banned from Xitter just for explaining what GoF even is. Im sure it has nothing to do with Allison Fauci being a Twitter systems engineer at the time. Selective enforcement doesn’t mean it didn’t happen just because you’re still online.
      - epistasis 9mo ago
        Look, I know we're supposed to "believe women" and all, but in my personal experience every time I have followed up on the "They're censoring me for my views" thread it has not resulted in a conservative person being censored for tax policy and advocating for limited government, but instead, "you know the views" that amount to harassment. I admit I could be wrong, but my Bayesian prior from past data is pretty strong. So I'm hesitant to believe without evidence. I understand if others have a very different prior, but I can't deny my past experience. In the past I've hesitated to even get involved with these discussions because they all seemed far too low signal to noise, and in fact lead to huge amounts of dangerous toxicity, but in these dangerous times I think it's important to interact more even if it's very unpleasant. I already got my first-ever "kill yourself" response to what was an extremely restrained comment response. We all see what goes on these discussions, we all see the common mischaracterizations, so if you want to overturn what people have seen in the past it's going to take documented evidence, I think.
curtisf 9mo ago
Conscription is horribly inapt metaphor for mandatory inoculation. Banning the playing of third-party Russian roulette, where you hold a mostly unloaded gun to the head of your neighbors, coworkers, and service staff, actually more accurately represents the risks involved to both yourself and the public, and importantly to the personal tax and effort required.
- Aeglaecia 9mo ago
  what about when a veteran returns from war with ptsd that can be triggered at any point and potentially result in violence to those around them ? thats about the same net effect as walking around with a loaded gun to everyones head , the only difference is the comparability in numbers. as well the covid death rates for young people are a fraction of the death rates of the elderly, who do deserve to be taken care of but ultimately are a net drain to society. so your comment is better stated as holding a gun to the head of the elderly ... which is horrible but not quite the same argument.
- hikkerl 9mo ago
  [flagged]

salodeus 9mo ago

It seems that AstraZenaca has become a scapegoat for Pharmaceutical companies, so people can say "oh it was just that one bad vaccine with one rare side effect."

epistasis 9mo ago
Could you expand on this a bit? I don't think that AstraZeneca has suffered any reputational damage from this, it's an extremely rare event that took broad monitoring to even discover. 200 documented deaths in what are likely hundreds of millions of doses is the type of thing that speaks to a very robust medical monitoring system. > "oh it was just that one bad vaccine with one rare side effect." What do reference by the "it" here? There were 1.2 million COVID deaths in the US alone which seems like the most notable "it" to reference but it doesn't really fit with the rest of the sentence.
bulbar 9mo ago
Most likely a lot of medication you have taken in your live have a low probability to kill you. It's just virtually no other class of medication/vaccine has the same degree of monitoring in place so we can't even measure such rare events. In comparison, back then I looked up the typical all cause death probability within a year for the age group 20-40 (in Germany) and it turns out, getting covid19 without vaccine increases that by 700%. A relative increase of a very small number is still very small number. However, worse then astrazenaca and the 700% that's only death, there's a lot that is not deadly but still very bad. The involved risks with astrazenaca makes taking it - compared to no vaccine at all - a no brainer in comparison.

6510 9mo ago

[flagged]

RupertSalt 9mo ago
This is a salient point: the mRNA method of inoculation is radically different from conventional "vaccines" as invented by Sabin and Salk (peace be upon them). The traditional vaccines rely on a large industrial supply of chicken eggs or other precursors, even human stem cells. The manufacturers of traditional vaccines need to culture trillions of colonies of virulent strains, and store those viruses colonies long enough to weaken/kill them and then assemble a vaccine with the remnants. Sorry, I meant "contain them with biohazard safety facilities and protocols" which are euphemistically known as "labs". I found essentially no moral objection to mRNA inoculations, unless you consider that the fungible funds we pay are going to the same pharmaceutical virus factories that manufacture and store influenza, polio, pertussis, tetanus, and other dangerous organisms. It would be really cool if we, as a civilization, could move past that stage, or at least enact treaties and disarmament protocols for the nations which are stockpiling them. But somehow, the general public doesn't see it that way.

KevinMS 9mo ago

This is getting flagged?

drukenemo 9mo ago
Of course, because this is a democratic place for open discussion (irony)