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> no displays In the US, no. Backup cameras are required by federal law as of 2018. The intent of the law was to reduce the number of children killed by being
by munificent 8mo ago
> no displays
In the US, no. Backup cameras are required by federal law as of 2018. The intent of the law was to reduce the number of children killed by being backed over because the driver couldn't see them behind the car.
- bobthepanda 8mo agoIt is crazy how many things are downstream of the structural issue where US regulations favor ginormous SUVs and pickups where this is a problem, but if we introduced legislation to fix this we would end up ruining US automakers which have pivoted almost entirely to this segment alone
- next_xibalba 8mo agoIt wouldn’t be HN without a commenter shoehorning the topic of a thread into proof of their pet problem. See also any topic even remotely tangential to city planning.
- fnord77 8mo agodeaths from people backing up over their kids predated "ginormous SUVs".
- kimbernator 8mo agoWhile I agree with you that the issue is far worse with larger vehicles, I do find that backing up in my wife's 2011 camry (without a backup camera) feels significantly less safe than I feel backing up my 2017 accord with a backup camera. I'm all for fixing the structural issue you are referring to, but I think the requirement for those cameras is sane in an age where the added cost to the manufacturer is miniscule.
- alt227 8mo agoIts not just the added cost, its the supply chain. Putting cameras into cars requires processors, ram, all manner of chips and compnents that a car didnt need before. There was the chip shortage during covid which held car production back becasue the auto makers couldnt source their chips fast enough. I am waiting to see if the current supply issue for ram chips modules will produce a similar effect.
- nebezb 8mo agoAll of that is worth the extra safety.
- hedgehog 8mo agoStability control, pre-collision braking, lane departure warnings, the complexity is pretty inevitable as we improve the safety of vehicles.
- AngryData 8mo agoI mean you can buy add-on 3rd party backup cameras for like $20. They don't have any cost excuses for including backup cameras, camera sensors and display screens are literally cheaper than dirt.
- dylan604 8mo agoThat's great for cars built before the regulation were put into place. Without that regulation, you'd then be dependent on the end user purchasing an after market part and installing it. The vast majority of them won't. So if it is so important to have, you make it part of the car. They did not leave seat belts up to the owners to install after market versions.
- AngryData 8mo agoMy point is that if a 3rd party manufacturer can produce and sell a combination screen and camera for $20 for a profit, an automotive manufacturer has no reason to complain about the "expense" of such a setup. It is even cheaper for them than a 3rd party addon supplier since they buy in larger bulk and can integrate mounts for those devices into the car, rather than trying to devise some sort of one-size-fits-all mounting system that the addon manufacturers need. They might as well be complaining about the costs of a rear view mirror, it is nonsense from the start. If a $20 gadget breaks the bank on a $30,000 minimum vehicle, they are a shitty business to start with and we should all be clapping our hands when they go out of business.
- 8mo ago
- Zancarius 8mo agoI have to agree. Backing up my Tundra (8' bed) feels substantially safer since I can see immediately behind the vehicle than any pre-regulation vehicle I've driven. That doesn't even account for the convenience with lining up for towing, hauling, etc. (It's no replacement for GOAL—Get Out And Look—but it definitely helps!)
- harrall 8mo agoI like it because I can see kids, no matter what vehicle I’m in. I have unusually good spatial skills. I have parallel parked and reverse parked perfectly every single time for over 5 years… …but no matter what, I cannot see behind my bumper. No mirror on any car points there.
- jjmarr 8mo agoThe law was passed due to sustained lobbying from a man, Greg Gulbransen, who ran over his child
- nobody_r_knows 8mo agoAs someone who can only afford cars that are 10+ years old, i've never owened a car with a backup camera. And in a way-- good. That part of my brain, let it continue to develop. I am much better at "feeling out" where a car is than my friends who rely on back up cameras.
- skhr0680 8mo agoBeing good at driving doesn’t fix the huge blind spot you have behind your car
- jabroni_salad 8mo agoI used to be ornery about this but having a camera mounted on the back of the trunk that can see all the way down both ways of the aisle is actually a huge boon when backing out of a spot. Especially if I am parked next to something that is taller than my golf, which is most vehicles.
- doubled112 8mo agoThis is what changed my mind too. I was firmly in the “can’t you just learn to drive?” camp before. I can use my eyes and look around but I can’t see through objects. The camera and sensors have an incredibly wide view. I only have to get my rear end out a few inches to be able to see everything I couldn’t before. Pray and pull out isn’t very safe.
- commakozzi 8mo agounless you're Yoda or Luke Skywalker, you're not "feeling" a 4-year old walking behind you in your blind spot.
- allenrb 8mo agoGive me a backup camera without a screen and then we’ll talk. Doubly so because once you’ve got that screen, no automaker will resist making it do other things.
- falcor84 8mo agoYou piqued my interest. What is the alternative output for a camera without a screen?
- JoeBOFH 8mo agoMy old F150 had a screen in the rear view mirror. I miss that.
- glaslong 8mo agoThese days I guess we could do gpt with voice out to recite a poem about the kid you're about to hit?
- harikb 8mo agoHaha... I think gp meant touch-screen, but thanks for the chuckle :)
- tracker1 8mo agoMy SO's Buick Enclave has a screen behind the rearview mirror that can be set to show the backup camera. Works okay, but I prefer the actual mirror and just use the dash display. That said, vision issues, so not driving since around this time last year.
- tempest_ 8mo agoMy 2010 Tacoma has a 2 inch square in the rear view mirror that works wonderfully.
- allenrb 8mo agoI actually like that a lot. Does the job without providing a (practical) target for infotainment. TIL.
- RHSeeger 8mo agoI bought a new car last year (my first actual _new_ car, vs pre-owned) and one of my most important features was a 360 camera. That extra visibility is just amazing for safety. Another was a HUD. Being able to see how fast I'm going, what the speed limit is, and other info; all while keeping my eyes on the road... is safer.
- tracker1 8mo agoI think it was a Dodge Neon from the early 00s that had the worst rear view I'd experienced. My Challenger was close, but the backup camera and blind spot sensors helped a lot. You could hide a bus in the blind spot on a Challenger, not to mention the passenger seat headrest blocks most of the corner/A window.
- badc0ffee 8mo agoIt's not just ginormous SUVs with this problem, though, right? You're not going to see a 18 month old out the back window of your compact hatchback if they're too close to your car. Especially now that windows seem to be tinier than they used to.
- Aurornis 8mo agoNo, it's common to all vehicles. You can't see small children behind a small passenger car, either. Blaming trucks and SUVs for everything is a favorite pasttime of internet comments, but all vehicles benefit from backup cameras and collision detection sensors.
- londons_explore 8mo agoI think the difference is that a 3 year old barely-walking child tends to wander behind moving cars far less often than an 8 year old playing football.
- discreteevent 8mo agoThat could be true but the 8 year old gets out of the way. I can remember two incidents on the news where a toddler was killed in a driveway. Tragic.
- kube-system 8mo ago1-4 year olds are the age group most likely to be injured in this type of incident. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5406a2.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5406a2.htm I suspect older children are more likely to be able to be aware of their surroundings and have better gross motor skills to react.
- nsbk 8mo agoThe US averages 23 pedestrian deaths per million people per year. The EU averages 8. The US fatalities have increased by 50% since 2013, while in the EU have decreased by 25% in the same time frame. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/74/wr/mm7408a2.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/74/wr/mm7408a2.htm
- chrisco255 8mo agoThis has nothing to do with SUVs. A 3 year old is difficult to see behind ANY vehicle.
- rkapsoro 8mo agoWait until you hear what kind of vehicles the CAFE regulatory framework has incentivized US automakers to build.
- bluejekyll 8mo agoThis is ultimately the thing that needs to be fixed. The exemption for small trucks was stupid, and it should have been reserved for literal farm equipment (as that was intended). The fact that SUVs slip by on this now has created such a dumb market.
- derektank 8mo agoThe OBBB Act passed by Congress last year eliminated the financial penalties associated with violations of CAFE standards, so there’s presumably no reason why automakers have to abide by them anymore, except possibly for concerns about future legislation.
- seattle_spring 8mo agoSomeone in another thread unironically called a midsized SUV a "matchbox". The vehicle in question has a size comparable to a Toyota 4Runner. Was a great example of the ridiculous expectations some of us Americans have on ridiculously huge vehicles.
- torginus 8mo agoPersonally I don't own a huge SUV, but I feel backup cameras are a godsend. You're so much better off looking from the point of the actual back of the car to judge the distance to the car parked behind you. The perk of not having to twist your body around while steerins is also pretty nice.
- globular-toast 8mo agoYou can give people more. You cannot give people less. That's it. That's all our problems.
- Aurornis 8mo ago> In the US, no. Backup cameras are required by federal law as of 2018. Backup cameras are required for new vehicles in a lot of markets: EU, Canada, Japan, and more. So it's not just a US requirement.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- Fwirt 8mo agoBackup cameras do contribute significantly to safety, to the point that I installed one in my 2002 vehicle with a cheap aftermarket head unit. The important thing to realize is that all the modern conveniences can be decoupled from the drivetrain. My $50 Android head unit does basically all the things that the OEM head unit on our 2018 vehicle does. It even does many things better. The problem with modern cars is that everything is so heavily integrated and proprietary. If I swapped out the OEM touchscreen, apparently I would also lose the ability to set the clock on my instrument cluster. Now that this has become normalized, automakers have realized they can lock Android Auto/CarPlay behind a paywall and you’ll have no recourse but to buy one of those tablets that you stick on your dashboard and plug into the aux port. If your car still has an aux port. I’m excited for the Slate, but unfortunately I have the feeling that the people who buy new cars aren’t the same people that want the Slate. The rest of us who keep our 20+ year old vehicles reliably plugging along don’t make any money for automakers.
- alt227 8mo ago> buy one of those tablets that you stick on your dashboard and plug into the aux port Every single car I have been in in the last 5 years or so has Bluetooth. No need for aux ports in this day and age, especially when devices dont have headphone jacks anymore. Are you stuck in the 2000's?
- AngryData 8mo agoI still use headphone jacks on my phone, I wouldn't buy one without it. It is just more garbage to manage and more stuff to fix when it doesn't work. It takes half a second to plug in a cable and I don't gotta run around broadcasting a bluetooth signal which drains battery when not in use and takes as long to disable as pulling out a plug. Plus it is often lower quality than the cord. Bluetoothing to your car is to me the same energy as using "wireless" charging stands for your phone. You are just replacing a physical tether with a less efficient digital tether of higher complexity for no actual gains.
- ikr678 8mo ago
- richardlblair 8mo agoYet everyone drives a truck and are incapable of seeing a child infront of their vehicle.
- danudey 8mo agoWhen I'm 5'11" and I often see trucks and SUVs whose hoods come nearly to my shoulder, it just boggles my mind. Of all the regulations around vehicles, I don't understand why "being able to see the road five feet in front of the vehicle" isn't one of them.
- AngryData 8mo agoBecause marketting doesn't really care about vehicle safety, they care about how cool and powerful it looks so they can sell it for a higher price.
- vineyardmike 8mo agoBecause trucks are extremely popular, and frankly there is a cultural identity associated with them. Most people don't haul things with their truck, and if they do, it's very infrequently. BUT in American fashion, the optionality to do this partially drives purchasing decisions.
- wussboy 8mo agoBut that identity was crafted by marketing. It could just as easily craft another identity if required.
- 725686 8mo agoCameras are required, but not displays :~)
- unethical_ban 8mo agoFord has the backup camera integrated with the mirror. So it is possible to have a dumb simple display vs an infotainment system.
- LeifCarrotson 8mo agoThe Slate truck has a small backup camera integrated into the gauge cluster, and many vendors implement it in the rearview mirror itself. It doesn't need to be a giant infotainment display.
- ProAm 8mo ago> The intent of the law was to reduce the number of children killed by being backed over because the driver couldn't see them behind the car. Wish they would do that for all the trucks with 5ft high hoods with no cameras.
- HiPhish 8mo agoBackup cameras are great for people who wear glasses. My visual cone is narrower, so I effectively have to turn my head 180° to see accurately enough, otherwise it's just a blur.
- ludicrousdispla 8mo agoI find audible proximity sensors to be far more useful, as I can freely look around the vehicle while listening for the closest contact point.
- tom_m 8mo agoWoah, really? I didn't know backup cameras were legally required now. Or have been. That's awesome.