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Toyotas and Terrorists: "Why are ISIS's trucks better than ours?" (2023)
- tantalor 9mo agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_War
- taniks1618 9mo agoI wish it was easy and simple to buy the Hilux in America. Many amazing foreign vehicles have been banned or heavily taxed by the Federal Government to prevent competition.
- hnav 9mo agoEven vehicles that are largely the same as those we get here are banned from being brought in. All because Mercedes didn't like being undercut by gray market imports and lobbied the government.
- Tade0 9mo agoThere's a similar thing currently going on in some parts of Europe, but the imported cars are for the Chinese market. In one high-profile case a Berlin-based VW dealership was importing the VW ID.6, which is a model exclusive to China: https://www.shop4ev.com/en/blogs/news/verkaufsverbot-id-6-bleibt-bestehen https://www.shop4ev.com/en/blogs/news/verkaufsverbot-id-6-bl...
- cosmic_cheese 9mo agoImagine how much nicer driving around in the suburbs would be if the majority of vehicles were town cars like Honda Fits, mini-mini-vans like Honda Freed, pre-2003 Tacomas, and kei trucks/vans instead of the usual mix of unreasonably tall and boxy crossovers/SUVs and brodozer trucks.
- ericmay 9mo agoWell I don't think it would be that much different, truthfully. The problem of the suburbs is a matter of layout and zoning, not so much the vehicles used. If you fix the layout and zoning it'll naturally reduce vehicle size.
- jaredklewis 9mo agoWould better zoning have a bigger impact? Of course. But it would definitely make an impact. If you are driving a Honda fit, there is no distance at which you can’t see my kids. In a ford f-150, the driver probably needs to be at least a dozen feet away to see my kids
- ericmay 8mo agoYea you're right about that. I didn't mean to imply otherwise though it seems I did. I guess what I meant to say was, to actually solve this problem we also need structural changes so that even driving one of these vehicles in our cities is a bit uncomfortable and so that it's less common precisely because of the reason you specified and many more. As we build and design better cities, people will naturally not want to buy such vehicles except if they have actual needs for them. I mean, you should be able to buy whatever you want. If you want a giant truck by all means go for it, but society shouldn't cater to edge cases, especially when they cause hazards like the one you described.
- Amezarak 9mo agoI think you probably know this because you used the US name for the car (internationally known as the Jazz), but for those who don’t, Honda discontinued the Fit in the US market due to poor sales. For every internet comment bemoaning the lack of these vehicles there’s the actual fact of revealed consumer preference in the US market.
- cosmic_cheese 9mo agoMuch of consumer preference doesn't originate from the consumers' own minds, though. It's shaped largely by marketing, and in the US car companies have been pushing bigger, boxier, more plush, and more expensive with its ad spend and incentives for decades now. It's way easier to find a dealership offering 0%-2% financing on some aircraft carrier of a vehicle than it is on a small car.
- TitaRusell 9mo agoAmerica will become like East Germany and the Trabant. And thanks to Trump's antics Detroit is losing the Mexican and Canadian markets...
- herbst 8mo agoHave you been to eastern Europe lately? That's an insult for them
- rootusrootus 9mo agoToyota must not think it is that amazing, else they would use their pickup factory in Texas to make Hilux's to sell here.
- mywittyname 9mo agoThe Hilux isn't "banned" from the USA. Toyota can federalize it and sell it here at any time. Toyota doesn't bring it here because we have the Tacoma - a truck designed to be more inline with American consumer tastes. If Toyota wanted to, they could readily start manufacturing Hiluxes in Mexico and importing them into the USA. Presumably, the reason they don't do this is because Americans hate small pickup trucks. Every single truck on sale in the USDM sells better in larger footprint spec. There's maybe 20k American who are willing to buy a new truck with the wheelbase the size of a Mustang (smallest Hilux). Even small BoF SUVs have the same problem. Take the FJ Cruiser, despite being a cult classic, it sold terribly in the USA, likely due to being too small. Plus, they are expensive. In Australia, the cheapest non-work-spec Hilux trim is ~$55k - which is like $38kUSD. A Tacoma starts cheaper than that and is much larger.
- HNisCIS 9mo agoThey can't produce them here because of CAFE.
- kube-system 9mo agoCAFE doesn't prevent them from producing or selling it here, plenty of automakers just pay CAFE fines. The Tacoma and Hilux are very similar in overall size, but the Tacoma does have the wheels pushed slightly closer to the corners, likely for this reason. However, current CAFE fines are capped to a whopping $0.00 The Hilux is also pretty tall and narrow, which I am guessing is very advantageous in markets where most buyers drive them on unpaved roads, and not very advantageous in countries where highway rollover tests are performed and they are primarily operated on highways with 12' wide lanes.
- kube-system 9mo agoThe current Hilux really isn't much different than a Tacoma to call it "amazing" https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/Upacara_Gelar_Pasukan_Operasional_dan_Kehormatan_Militer_2025_-_Yontaifib_1_Marinir_-_New_Hilux_D_Cab.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/Upacara_... The old Hilux that was on Top Gear hasn't been made for a quarter century.
- testing22321 9mo agoIt is vastly different. Different engine, gearbox, axles, brakes. They share no parts. Its payload is double, its fuel economy is way better. It’s way, way tougher. I’m an Aussie living in Canada, I’ve driven many models of both extensively, family have them all.
- kube-system 9mo agoThey are both offered in a variety of configurations, and some parts are sometimes shared between the two. e.g. the 2TR-FE engine and AC60 transmission. Parts sharing is routine in the industry. The vast majority of parts on most vehicles are shared with other vehicles. But yes, the Hilux is built to be a work truck, the Tacoma is built as a passenger vehicle that can do truck things.
- testing22321 9mo agoNobody in the history of ever bought a Hilux with a gas engine. I’ve driven through 70 countries on five continents, I’ve never seen a non-diesel Hilux.
- pavel_lishin 9mo ago> It is also a very robust vehicle capable of withstanding elemental and physical extremities, as shown on the British TV show “Top Gear.”[6] If you haven't ever watched Top Gear, this is definitely one of the standout bits they did - putting that truck through absolute hell, and watching it continue to start up. I highly recommend it, even if you don't think of yourself as a Car Guy. It's basically a comedy show that just happens to use cars.
- wfleming 9mo agoFor folks who have never seen it, these are the referenced Top Gear segments: - part 1: https://youtu.be/xnWKz7Cthkk https://youtu.be/xnWKz7Cthkk - part 2: https://youtu.be/xnWKz7Cthkk https://youtu.be/xnWKz7Cthkk - part 3: https://youtu.be/kFnVZXQD5_k https://youtu.be/kFnVZXQD5_k
- latexr 9mo agoSecond link is wrong (links to part 1 again). Corrected: https://youtu.be/xTPnIpjodA8 https://youtu.be/xTPnIpjodA8
- RockstarSprain 8mo agoRemarkable how by the end of the third video it really starts to resemble the Cybertruck.
- bwv848 8mo agoYou should watch the Hammerhead Eagle i-Thrust episode.
- hinkley 9mo agohttps://wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear%3A_Polar_Special https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear%3A_Polar_Special Top Gear drives a heavily modified Toyota Hilux to the North Pole.
- bwv848 9mo ago
- treesknees 9mo agoWhy do websites constantly insist on having small gray on white background text, stretching 160+ characters per line? Practically impossible to read on desktop. I wish people would think about default readability. Even Microsoft Edge’s reading mode barely made a difference.
- tomlockwood 9mo agoOne of the books that influenced my thinking the most was The Accidental Guerilla by David Kilcullen where he posits that economic disadvantage drove a lot of people to insurgency. This article supports that. Worth a read!
- gowld 9mo agoYes, humans do compete for resources.
- pocksuppet 9mo agoNot the same thing.
- tomlockwood 9mo agoGo on?
- testing22321 9mo agoBecause the chicken tax keeps out great vehicles so the US automakers don’t have to compete. The hilux and 79 landcruiser are run of the mill workhorses in virtually every country in the world except the US and Canada. They run rings around the Tacoma and tundra. Tariffs and old world protectionism like the chicken tax are keeping the US automakers on life support, but they’re all doomed - they’re not even trying to compete.
- nextos 9mo agoAFAIK, the classic Toyota Land Cruiser (J70) has not been sold in EU for more than a decade since it doesn't comply with emission regulations. Interestingly, some are assembled in Portugal for North African and Middle East markets.
- fakedang 9mo agoLand cruisers are almost collectors items now in the Middle East. Transcends across wealth and status. Doesn't matter if it's a middle class office worker with a large family, a soccer mom living in the Palm or a filthy rich oil sheikh with an arsenal of sports cars stored away in his garage - they all have Land Cruisers (or the Prado). I might actually just get into the hobby of collecting Land Cruiser models, and maybe a few Japan-exclusive Toyota models.
- testing22321 9mo agoThe 70 series is still very easy to buy and register in many EU countries. The new 2.8 diesel is euro 6 We types who drive around the world do it often.
- seemaze 9mo agoBeen lusting after a 76 cruiser since I got my license. Settled for a first gen taco in the early aughts. It's been from Cabo to Dawson and back again twice and is still only half way through it's useful life..
- Der_Einzige 9mo agoThe C8 corvette is car of the year for like 5+ years running by every major automotive publication. When GM/Chevy tries, they beat everyone else. Too bad bean counters ruin everything except their halo cars.
- themafia 9mo agoWhy not deal with the cause of the terrorism? Are we really worried what vendor they get their trucks from?
- pavel_lishin 9mo ago> Why not deal with the cause of the terrorism? slaps forehead Why didn't I think of that!
- themafia 9mo agoWhat's the alternative. In a terrorist camp somewhere: "Guys! We can't Toyota's anymore. I guess terrorism is over! Pack it up and go home!" Sheesh.
- CoastalCoder 9mo ago> Why not deal with the cause of the terrorism? I don't think that's a simple proposition.
- direwolf20 9mo agoSome terrorism is because we murdered the terrorist's family, and we could just stop murdering families. I don't think this one is, though.
- hnav 9mo agoNo, these guys we seem to have funded and supported. We even helped a former AQ leader become the president of Syria.
- hsbauauvhabzb 9mo ago> Are we really worried what vendor they get their trucks from? There are for sure gun manufacturers that would love to sell terrorists guns, can car manufacturers that would sell terrorists cars. The harder they are to obtain, the less success the terrorists will have in their objectives. Do you really think we shouldn’t care, understand or look to shut down supply chains?
- avidiax 9mo agoWhile I don't think it would prevent our troops from having foreign-produced trucks in theater, we can't affordably procure such trucks thanks to the Chicken Tax. I would also guess that giving a DoD contract to Toyota for a truck that may not be registrable in the US would also face institutional resistance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax
- gowld 9mo ago25% tariff isn't a roadblock for military spending.
- mjhay 9mo agoRegarding Western military procurement, “We have such sights to show you!”
- bluGill 9mo agoThe military has an incentive to ensure there are plenty of Americans who know how to design and manufacture things. A truck and a tank have a lot in common - if war breaks out we want the ability to take people of of trucks and get them making things the military needs. This is the same reason the Navy has for building ships in the US even though they can be done other places cheaper.
- theluketaylor 9mo ago> A truck and a tank have a lot in common Maybe in 1942. Modern tanks cannot be built on highly specialized production lines that build road vehicles without years-long re-tooling. M1 Abrams tanks don't even use piston engines, they have turbines. A older, but well documented example how specialized modern automotive production has become is the Mercedes Benz 500e. In the 90s Mercedes wanted to build a more powerful, wider version of the E class. They added 56 mm to the front fenders and discovered it wouldn't fit through the production line properly. MB contracted for Porsche to handle the low-volume 500e on a different production line.
- benbojangles 9mo agoBig reveal: they're not but bringing out a feeling of superiority in your enemy inside a warzone makes them easier targets
- AndrewKemendo 9mo agoGlad to see my alma mater represented here doing good research. I served in Iraq as an AF commander. My 2001 Tundra is still going strong ;)
- downut 9mo agoSo is mine (2001TRD bought new). Searched all over AZ looking for manual everything and I got it, except for the trans. It replaced an fj60 Landcruiser. Beautiful machine I worked on a lot (5spd trans, lift, exhaust, gas tank) but it needed more power. The FJ-60 replaced an absolutely bottom basic 4cyl 4wd 5spd manual Toy "Pickup", better than a jeep 'cause you could carry shit off road, that the child outgrew sitting in the middle behind the stick. The only thing I dislike about the Tundra is the gas mileage. I thought I would hate the auto trans but then I did some largish sandy-ish steps uphill and fuck me that was easy. Ah, there is another annoying thing: anti-lock brakes make sandy steep downhills with exposure much more interesting than they should be. When I die I want to be buried in it. God the new gigantic Tundras look awful. I think I'm seeing a lot more newish Tacomas these days, and they still look decent. They definitely look easier to park.
- AndrewKemendo 9mo agoHell Yeah V8 TRD rep I am thinking of upgrading to a Toyota Land Cruiser 200 but the full cab Hilux just can’t be beat
- downut 9mo agoLC 200: 381HP V8 lol! Holy shit they are expensive used. It kinda looks like the updated version of the FJ-80 public "Mall Cruiser" actual knower "Land Crusher" concept, where the thing that looks like yer regular suburban kid hauler has got some serious off road chops. Used "Mall Cruiser" FJ-80s were considered a steal for many years.
- AndrewKemendo 8mo agoYeah $100k for 100k miles is crazy work, but those things will do 1Mm miles in harsh terrain
- HeyLaughingBoy 9mo agoI loved my 1987 Toyota 4x4 pickup with all its mods. My wife used to say that I'd get rid of her before I got rid of it (wife's still here; I sold the truck long ago). But no way in hell would I want to be a real accident in one. That's why they're no longer sold in the US. Amazing off-roader, cheap and extremely reliable. But they're stuck in 1980's crash survivability while the rest of the world moved on.
- thatcat 9mo agoThey're selling side by sides today in the <3500 dry wt. category which can be road registered. If used primarily for agriculture, they're even tax exempt from registration in some states. The 80's toyota pickup is better than a side by side and weighs less than 3500, arguably safer, and offers better utility for agriculture. There are plenty of Toyota manufacturing facilities in the US, which would avoid the chicken tax on import. It's not impossible or unreasonable for light weight toyota turbo diesels with hydraulic systems, an aluminum frame, and manual locking hubs to materialize.
- rpcope1 9mo agoThat's the dirty secret, is that a lot of the side-by-sides kind of suck in relation to an old Tacoma, S10, Mahindra Roxor or a Kei truck, and cost an arm and a leg. It's amazing to me that Polaris sells as many as they do, given what they cost and their capabilities.
- kube-system 9mo agoJust looked up their figures -- I would have never guessed they sell 600k+ units/yr of side-by-sides given what they charge for them
- Gualdrapo 9mo agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_War
- netsharc 9mo agoSeems like the question is never answered. There's a lot of how the trucks get there, but not why they're better. (I skimmed it, the writing has too much emotional bait of "Look how evil they are! Don't forget, we're the good guys!"). Maybe it's survivor bias, the ones that are crap have been blown up by a Hellfire shot by a drone..
- chongli 9mo agoIt’s the same story as the Casio F-91W as well as the AK-47. Terrorists (or just any armed paramilitary group) who live in the back country far from common supply lines have a great need for standardized, rugged, reliable, and repairable technology. By living that life, they’re basically forced to think about these issues as a matter of survival.
- duxup 9mo agoWell I think the F-91 is durable, it’s probably not repaired as much as discarded as it is cheap. Disposable is likely the advantage there.
- chongli 9mo agoI've read that it's quite usable as a spare part itself, in order to make a cheap and reliable time-bomb IED. It has a built-in alarm and it's apparently not too difficult to use the alarm's beeper signal to set off the bomb at an exact time of day. This would otherwise be quite difficult and time-consuming to build out of a box of off-the-shelf electronic components (not to mention a UI for setting the alarm). The fact that the watch is so ubiquitous means the paramilitaries can write and distribute a standard field manual explaining how to do this, knowing that anyone wanting to build an IED ought to be able to acquire some of the watches on their own.
- the__alchemist 9mo ago- Cheap + reliable - Parts for maintenance easy to come by - Strong enough to mount an 50 cal in the back You might have a mix of government owned vehicles, and ones rented from the local economy. You might be driving Hiluxes to work, and observing ISIS or partner forces using the same model as fighting vehicles.
- PieTime 9mo agoMaybe stop US should stop funding ISIS, Al Queda in Syria, mujahideen in Afghanistan…
- CrzyLngPwd 9mo agoDon't be silly. Can't have stability in Israel's adversaries
- stackedinserter 8mo agoName active Israel's adversaries that are not US adversaries. All those who chant "death to Israel" happily attach "death to America" to it.
- CrzyLngPwd 8mo agoWhy do you think that is?
- londons_explore 9mo agoStories like this always seem one-sided. Can't a journalist or researcher find at least one person on the other side from back when this was done in ~2012 and interview them? Sure, many will be reluctant to talk, and Afghanistan isn't exactly a stable place right now, but all it would take is a phone call to the right people...
- cucumber3732842 9mo ago>Stories like this always seem one-sided. Nuanced "it's complicated" takes don't gain traction. Confirm the audience's biases and it's straight to the top.
- jabroni_salad 9mo agoThey sometimes get American trucks, too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Mark-1_Plumbing_truck_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Mark-1_Plumbing_truck_inc...
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- tamimio 9mo agoWhat’s better than Hilux is the Land Cruiser 70 or 75 series, more reliable and bigger payload. That being said, you can never go wrong with Toyota, reliable yet simple, if you open the Hilux engine hood you can literally see your feet through the engine area because only few components are in there, compare this to say a german car, and you need a manual on just where to find the engine oil stick.
- einpoklum 9mo ago> ISIS may have acquired Toyota Hilux vehicles thanks to the perpetual cycle of U.S. involvement in Foreign Military Sales with the Middle East No surprises there. A lot of ISIS' actual weaponry was stuff the US had equipped the crony Iraqi military with, and was just picked up by ISIS when the Iraqi soldiers retreated - like a weapons cache in a computer game: Move over the building and your ammo slider goes up magically.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- tinfoilhatter 9mo agoBecause ISIS was a rebranded Al Quaeda which emerged from the Mujahideen terrorist group which was funded by the US through Operation Cyclone headed by the Polish Jesuit Zbigniew Brzezinski. They've always had funding from the Jesuits / US war industry. It's no surprise they have access to these vehicles if one understands that all modern wars are orchestrated.
- TitaRusell 8mo agoNot just modern wars. Hell the American Revolution was funded and supplied by France and the Netherlands- the colonies at that time did not have the industrial capability to outfit an army. Every conflict in the history of man has people operating in the shadows.
- tinfoilhatter 8mo agoYeah war is and has for most of history been a racket.
- nickdothutton 9mo agoReminds me of a back burner project I have. "The Technical In War".
- wiredpancake 8mo ago[dead]
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- fmlpp 8mo agoMuch preferable to call them insurgents. Your perspective is USA centric and derogatory.