4 ms·

Thousands of people have put their pants on, had breakfast, gone to work, and then been intercepted by militarized federal agents, thrown to the ground, locked

Thousands of people have put their pants on, had breakfast, gone to work, and then been intercepted by militarized federal agents, thrown to the ground, locked up in prison camps, then deported overseas. Glad things are comfy for you though.

estearum 8mo ago
Or just beaten, locked up, abused, then released, because after all they had never done anything wrong to begin with!
- wyclif 8mo ago
  never done anything wrong to begin with Except illegally migrate to the US without applying or engaging in human traffic and smuggling. You may not like it, but the USA is still a nation of laws. It's also a modern nation. Third world shitholes have lots of problems caused by illegal immigration because they don't do enough to enforce the law and restore order for their citizens. I'm rather glad that US culture hasn't yet turned into another Afghanistan or Pakistan.
  - malnourish 8mo ago
    It's not a crime to be an unauthorized resident of the United States; it's a civil offense. Knowingly hiring an ineligible worker is a crime, however. I'm curious why we aren't going after the employers attracting and hiring undocumented residents. Besides, people were being deported in significant numbers across multiple presidents in both parties without resorting to the strategy and tactics of the current administration.
    - wyclif 8mo ago
      I know they were. But when Obama and Clinton were doing it, one of the big differences was that there were not all these Karens blowing whistles and interfering with those operations. The difference is that now there are far more deranged people who want to take the law into their own hands, and often these people are violently attacking law enforcement. I don't like having these conversations, and I don't consider myself a defender of the current ICE. It's far from a perfect organisation and it has a lot of problems. But it seems clear to me that the concept of law and an ordered society has taken a big hit. Trump Derangement Syndrome is not an excuse to allow that to evaporate in Minneapolis and all the other cities with extremely violent protests and attacks on law enforcement.
      - estearum 8mo ago
        It seems you're under the belief that the Karens blowing whistles is creating the different enforcement mechanism. Can you explain how this is not disproven by: 1) POTUS's own statements for years prior to taking power that he would enact a totally different kind of immigration enforcement regime 2) The massive budget increase and personnel surge for ICE, planned at least several months before Trump even took power 3) DHS policy memos shared days after Trump taking power that claimed nationwide expansion of expedited removal powers 4) Declaration of expansive state powers under AEA, also planned months before taking power and therefore months before any public resistance to immigration enforcement These are all extremely, extremely aberrational actions and policy decisions, all of which contribute to the current facts on the ground in Minneapolis and elsewhere, and none of which were in response to Karens blowing whistles. What evidence do you have that Karens are causing the enforcement shift, versus the enforcement shift causing the Karens, given that the enforcement shifts were planned for months before the Karens even had any whistles to blow?
  - wat10000 8mo ago
    Do you actually believe every person getting abused is an illegal immigrant, or are you just pretending because it's the only way to make your point?
  - estearum 8mo ago
    No, including illegal immigration. There are people who have immigrated fully legally within the boundaries of the laws of our nation and still gotten targeted, detained, arrested, and even deported. There are American citizens getting stopped and harassed for their papers. It's always hilarious hearing the "America can't become one of those shithole countries!" while advocating for policies and attitudes that are pervasive in said shithole countries. Here are a few examples of said violations by our government: https://www.congress.gov/119/meeting/house/118180/documents/HMKP-119-JU00-20250430-SD003.pdf https://www.congress.gov/119/meeting/house/118180/documents/...
    - account42 8mo ago
      Now show me the country where law enforcement does not occasionally happen to inconvenience people who in the end turn out to be innocent. Are you also going to call for ban of all vaccines because they or the methods in which they are administered can in rare cases be fatal?
      - estearum 8mo ago
        Where did I call for a ban on anything? I'm simply calling for my government to obey the Constitution. If they can't execute these operations without violating people's rights, then uhh... they can't execute these operations. That's not me "banning" anything, that's just called "following the law." Violating people's Constitutional rights (even immigrants', even illegal immigrants'!) is already banned.
      - estearum 8mo ago
        Can't edit my prior comment, but anyway here are some thoughts from a Founding Father, 2nd President of the United States, and leader of the American Revolution, John Adams: > We are to look upon it as more beneficial, that many guilty persons should escape unpunished, than one innocent person should suffer. The reason is, because it’s of more importance to community, that innocence should be protected, than it is, that guilt should be punished; for guilt and crimes are so frequent in the world, that all of them cannot be punished; and many times they happen in such a manner, that it is not of much consequence to the public, whether they are punished or not. But when innocence itself, is brought to the bar and condemned, especially to die, the subject will exclaim, it is immaterial to me, whether I behave well or ill; for virtue itself, is no security. And if such a sentiment as this, should take place in the mind of the subject, there would be an end to all security what so ever Lots of wisdom in this
  - mcv 8mo ago
    > You may not like it, but the USA is still a nation of laws. I would love it if the US was a country of laws, but the rule of law has been quite thoroughly killed by the Trump administration. It wasn't very effective even before Trump, as you can see by how the prosecution of Trump's crimes got blocked or derailed every step of the way, but after his election, the Constitution has gone completely out of the window. > Third world shitholes have lots of problems caused by illegal immigration because they don't do enough to enforce the law and restore order for their citizens. Their problems don't come from illegal immigration. Not even a bit. Unless you use it as a euphemism for colonialism. The real problem there is corruption and a lack of rule of law. And the US is heading in that same direction fast. > I'm rather glad that US culture hasn't yet turned into another Afghanistan or Pakistan. Republicans are working on that.
  - computerthings 8mo ago
    [dead]
assimpleaspossi 8mo ago
Were these thousands of people all legal US citizens? >Glad things are comfy for you though. Things for my family, my relatives and me are great! When I was in my early 20s I often went hungry. Now I'm worth a lot of money. Couldn't be happier as a normal, decent, everyday US citizen.
- ciwolsey 8mo ago
  [flagged]
- Melonai 8mo ago
  As someone completely unaffected by both the protests and deportations, I still feel quite sad about the current situation. I feel like we should still have empathy, not only for the people who are completely clean legally, but also for the illegal immigrants. Sure, they made a choice which put them at odds with the legal system, and yet I still don't want them beaten up, stripped of any of their rights (as non-citizens), with their families destroyed. I keep thinking, if I was in their situation, I could've made that same choice, it's certainly possible, if I was just born somewhere else. Now I don't think illegal immigrants are guilt-free I suppose, some of them are horrible people I'm sure, and they still deserve humane treatment, I have a lot of faith that that's still one of the most important pillars of a good society. Obviously we can argue about numbers, maybe abuse doesn't even happen often at all, maybe every single person abused has committed a crime. It could be, and even then we should try to be humane, if we can... I am always happy to hear when people are doing well though! Most of us won't be directly affected, luckily, and I really hope it will stay that way as well. The less people in duress, the better.
  - userbinator 8mo ago
    Continually pandering to "humane" bullshit is why the country has become the way it is.
    - wredcoll 8mo ago
      And what exactly is that way? Semi-official paramilitary groups harassing americans? Desperate attempts to demonize minorities? Threats to prevent future elections? Trade wars that fuck over the american economy and moronic foreign policy that pisses away decades of power accumulation? That's all the fault of asking people to be humane?
JuniperMesos 8mo ago
Those people were people who previously made the decision to illegally immigrate to the US. Lots of people start their day normally and then get arrested by militarized cops because they are wanted for murder or assault or burglary or cryptocurrency fraud. The fact that the US has a criminal justice system including police that arrest people suspected of crimes, isn't new, isn't obviously worse than competing systems (e.g justice via informal militia/lynch mob), and doesn't have any implications for the use of Discord today that it didn't have a decade ago.
- viraptor 8mo ago
  > Those people were people who previously made the decision to illegally immigrate to the US. There are no limits here and there many publicly available proofs of people getting harassed and detained regardless of legal status and deported contrary to court rulings that apply to their situation. You don't need to repeat the current ICE/DOJ lies - they can speak for themselves.
  - pb7 8mo ago
    You should consider how allowing millions of illegal immigrants impacts legal residents next time you vote then.
    - userbinator 8mo ago
      The legal immigrants have it the worst --- they're the ones who got in legitimately, that already being a struggle as it is, only to be cheated by all the ones who didn't.
      - nozzlegear 8mo ago
        What does it mean to be "cheated by all the ones who didn't"? Their ire, if it's a real thing, is directed at the wrong people. They should direct it at the ones who made becoming an American citizen a long, drawn-out bureaucratic process, not their fellow immigrants who came to the US seeking a better life through hard work. As a true blue and red-blooded American, I'd vote a hundred times to make it as simple for those people to become an American citizen as it was for my forefathers, who only had to hop on a boat over in Europe and not shit themselves to death before they got here.
pb7 8mo ago
They should have thought of that before entering this country illegally. Millions more have an opportunity to avoid this risk right now by leaving voluntarily but they choose not to.
- nextaccountic 8mo ago
  Citizens are abducted by ICE too. Even native Americans
- moogly 8mo ago
  Newsflash: citizens have also been deported. Maybe you're next, who knows.
  - pb7 8mo ago
    Want to bet?
    - shevy-java 8mo ago
      Nobody needs to bet - in a lawful society, the law should protect citizens from government agents shooting them dead. ICE already shot dead two US citizens. What would a bet change here? That is a system that clearly does not work.
      - account42 8mo ago
        People died after they deliberately put themselves in harms way in an attempt to illegally interfere with law enforcement. That's tragic but doesn't make the law enforcement inherently wrong.
        int_19h 8mo ago
        One wonders if you would be equally philosophical about an ICE agent getting shot after breaking down someone's door with an "administrative warrant" (which isn't a warrant).
account42 8mo ago
People who were actively violating the law of the country.
- estearum 8mo ago
  Not true. As mentioned elsewhere, plenty of people were not in fact violating any laws when this happened to them. Here's another case. In this one, the government targeted someone who had violated no laws for exercising the 1st Amendment rights afforded to every individual in our country. https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/2025-04/FIRE%20Ozturk%20Filed%20Amicus.pdf https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/2025-04/FIRE%20Ozt...

estearum 8mo ago

Or just beaten, locked up, abused, then released, because after all they had never done anything wrong to begin with!

wyclif 8mo ago
never done anything wrong to begin with Except illegally migrate to the US without applying or engaging in human traffic and smuggling. You may not like it, but the USA is still a nation of laws. It's also a modern nation. Third world shitholes have lots of problems caused by illegal immigration because they don't do enough to enforce the law and restore order for their citizens. I'm rather glad that US culture hasn't yet turned into another Afghanistan or Pakistan.
- malnourish 8mo ago
  It's not a crime to be an unauthorized resident of the United States; it's a civil offense. Knowingly hiring an ineligible worker is a crime, however. I'm curious why we aren't going after the employers attracting and hiring undocumented residents. Besides, people were being deported in significant numbers across multiple presidents in both parties without resorting to the strategy and tactics of the current administration.
  - wyclif 8mo ago
    I know they were. But when Obama and Clinton were doing it, one of the big differences was that there were not all these Karens blowing whistles and interfering with those operations. The difference is that now there are far more deranged people who want to take the law into their own hands, and often these people are violently attacking law enforcement. I don't like having these conversations, and I don't consider myself a defender of the current ICE. It's far from a perfect organisation and it has a lot of problems. But it seems clear to me that the concept of law and an ordered society has taken a big hit. Trump Derangement Syndrome is not an excuse to allow that to evaporate in Minneapolis and all the other cities with extremely violent protests and attacks on law enforcement.
    - estearum 8mo ago
      It seems you're under the belief that the Karens blowing whistles is creating the different enforcement mechanism. Can you explain how this is not disproven by: 1) POTUS's own statements for years prior to taking power that he would enact a totally different kind of immigration enforcement regime 2) The massive budget increase and personnel surge for ICE, planned at least several months before Trump even took power 3) DHS policy memos shared days after Trump taking power that claimed nationwide expansion of expedited removal powers 4) Declaration of expansive state powers under AEA, also planned months before taking power and therefore months before any public resistance to immigration enforcement These are all extremely, extremely aberrational actions and policy decisions, all of which contribute to the current facts on the ground in Minneapolis and elsewhere, and none of which were in response to Karens blowing whistles. What evidence do you have that Karens are causing the enforcement shift, versus the enforcement shift causing the Karens, given that the enforcement shifts were planned for months before the Karens even had any whistles to blow?
- wat10000 8mo ago
  Do you actually believe every person getting abused is an illegal immigrant, or are you just pretending because it's the only way to make your point?
- estearum 8mo ago
  No, including illegal immigration. There are people who have immigrated fully legally within the boundaries of the laws of our nation and still gotten targeted, detained, arrested, and even deported. There are American citizens getting stopped and harassed for their papers. It's always hilarious hearing the "America can't become one of those shithole countries!" while advocating for policies and attitudes that are pervasive in said shithole countries. Here are a few examples of said violations by our government: https://www.congress.gov/119/meeting/house/118180/documents/HMKP-119-JU00-20250430-SD003.pdf https://www.congress.gov/119/meeting/house/118180/documents/...
  - account42 8mo ago
    Now show me the country where law enforcement does not occasionally happen to inconvenience people who in the end turn out to be innocent. Are you also going to call for ban of all vaccines because they or the methods in which they are administered can in rare cases be fatal?
    - estearum 8mo ago
      Where did I call for a ban on anything? I'm simply calling for my government to obey the Constitution. If they can't execute these operations without violating people's rights, then uhh... they can't execute these operations. That's not me "banning" anything, that's just called "following the law." Violating people's Constitutional rights (even immigrants', even illegal immigrants'!) is already banned.
    - estearum 8mo ago
      Can't edit my prior comment, but anyway here are some thoughts from a Founding Father, 2nd President of the United States, and leader of the American Revolution, John Adams: > We are to look upon it as more beneficial, that many guilty persons should escape unpunished, than one innocent person should suffer. The reason is, because it’s of more importance to community, that innocence should be protected, than it is, that guilt should be punished; for guilt and crimes are so frequent in the world, that all of them cannot be punished; and many times they happen in such a manner, that it is not of much consequence to the public, whether they are punished or not. But when innocence itself, is brought to the bar and condemned, especially to die, the subject will exclaim, it is immaterial to me, whether I behave well or ill; for virtue itself, is no security. And if such a sentiment as this, should take place in the mind of the subject, there would be an end to all security what so ever Lots of wisdom in this
- mcv 8mo ago
  > You may not like it, but the USA is still a nation of laws. I would love it if the US was a country of laws, but the rule of law has been quite thoroughly killed by the Trump administration. It wasn't very effective even before Trump, as you can see by how the prosecution of Trump's crimes got blocked or derailed every step of the way, but after his election, the Constitution has gone completely out of the window. > Third world shitholes have lots of problems caused by illegal immigration because they don't do enough to enforce the law and restore order for their citizens. Their problems don't come from illegal immigration. Not even a bit. Unless you use it as a euphemism for colonialism. The real problem there is corruption and a lack of rule of law. And the US is heading in that same direction fast. > I'm rather glad that US culture hasn't yet turned into another Afghanistan or Pakistan. Republicans are working on that.
- computerthings 8mo ago
  [dead]

assimpleaspossi 8mo ago

Were these thousands of people all legal US citizens? >Glad things are comfy for you though. Things for my family, my relatives and me are great! When I was in my early 20s I often went hungry. Now I'm worth a lot of money. Couldn't be happier as a normal, decent, everyday US citizen.

ciwolsey 8mo ago
[flagged]
Melonai 8mo ago
As someone completely unaffected by both the protests and deportations, I still feel quite sad about the current situation. I feel like we should still have empathy, not only for the people who are completely clean legally, but also for the illegal immigrants. Sure, they made a choice which put them at odds with the legal system, and yet I still don't want them beaten up, stripped of any of their rights (as non-citizens), with their families destroyed. I keep thinking, if I was in their situation, I could've made that same choice, it's certainly possible, if I was just born somewhere else. Now I don't think illegal immigrants are guilt-free I suppose, some of them are horrible people I'm sure, and they still deserve humane treatment, I have a lot of faith that that's still one of the most important pillars of a good society. Obviously we can argue about numbers, maybe abuse doesn't even happen often at all, maybe every single person abused has committed a crime. It could be, and even then we should try to be humane, if we can... I am always happy to hear when people are doing well though! Most of us won't be directly affected, luckily, and I really hope it will stay that way as well. The less people in duress, the better.
- userbinator 8mo ago
  Continually pandering to "humane" bullshit is why the country has become the way it is.
  - wredcoll 8mo ago
    And what exactly is that way? Semi-official paramilitary groups harassing americans? Desperate attempts to demonize minorities? Threats to prevent future elections? Trade wars that fuck over the american economy and moronic foreign policy that pisses away decades of power accumulation? That's all the fault of asking people to be humane?

JuniperMesos 8mo ago

Those people were people who previously made the decision to illegally immigrate to the US. Lots of people start their day normally and then get arrested by militarized cops because they are wanted for murder or assault or burglary or cryptocurrency fraud. The fact that the US has a criminal justice system including police that arrest people suspected of crimes, isn't new, isn't obviously worse than competing systems (e.g justice via informal militia/lynch mob), and doesn't have any implications for the use of Discord today that it didn't have a decade ago.

viraptor 8mo ago
> Those people were people who previously made the decision to illegally immigrate to the US. There are no limits here and there many publicly available proofs of people getting harassed and detained regardless of legal status and deported contrary to court rulings that apply to their situation. You don't need to repeat the current ICE/DOJ lies - they can speak for themselves.
- pb7 8mo ago
  You should consider how allowing millions of illegal immigrants impacts legal residents next time you vote then.
  - userbinator 8mo ago
    The legal immigrants have it the worst --- they're the ones who got in legitimately, that already being a struggle as it is, only to be cheated by all the ones who didn't.
    - nozzlegear 8mo ago
      What does it mean to be "cheated by all the ones who didn't"? Their ire, if it's a real thing, is directed at the wrong people. They should direct it at the ones who made becoming an American citizen a long, drawn-out bureaucratic process, not their fellow immigrants who came to the US seeking a better life through hard work. As a true blue and red-blooded American, I'd vote a hundred times to make it as simple for those people to become an American citizen as it was for my forefathers, who only had to hop on a boat over in Europe and not shit themselves to death before they got here.

pb7 8mo ago

They should have thought of that before entering this country illegally. Millions more have an opportunity to avoid this risk right now by leaving voluntarily but they choose not to.

nextaccountic 8mo ago
Citizens are abducted by ICE too. Even native Americans
moogly 8mo ago
Newsflash: citizens have also been deported. Maybe you're next, who knows.
- pb7 8mo ago
  Want to bet?
  - shevy-java 8mo ago
    Nobody needs to bet - in a lawful society, the law should protect citizens from government agents shooting them dead. ICE already shot dead two US citizens. What would a bet change here? That is a system that clearly does not work.
    - account42 8mo ago
      People died after they deliberately put themselves in harms way in an attempt to illegally interfere with law enforcement. That's tragic but doesn't make the law enforcement inherently wrong.
      - int_19h 8mo ago
        One wonders if you would be equally philosophical about an ICE agent getting shot after breaking down someone's door with an "administrative warrant" (which isn't a warrant).

account42 8mo ago

People who were actively violating the law of the country.

estearum 8mo ago
Not true. As mentioned elsewhere, plenty of people were not in fact violating any laws when this happened to them. Here's another case. In this one, the government targeted someone who had violated no laws for exercising the 1st Amendment rights afforded to every individual in our country. https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/2025-04/FIRE%20Ozturk%20Filed%20Amicus.pdf https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/2025-04/FIRE%20Ozt...