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I used to live next to Borough market and saw it devolve from a genuine working class market to a chi-chi hive. The old pie and mash shop was replaced by office

by Daub 8mo ago

I used to live next to Borough market and saw it devolve from a genuine working class market to a chi-chi hive. The old pie and mash shop was replaced by offices and high-end trinket shops, as were all the other old-school business. It was like watching someone you love being embalmed whilst still alive. I now live in Asia where the market tradition are still vivid and alive.

fennecbutt 8mo ago
Eh I live in the UK (wasn't born here) and I think they hold onto too much for too long here. How many "examples of a Victorian house" do you really need? Japan is a perfect example of picking and choosing, keeping the very important things and building new things everywhere else. How long will the UK keep all of these decrepit buildings? 100 more years? 1000? 10000? And what a loss to history, in trying to keep "the good old days" alive that you don't allow current and future generations to also leave a mark in history, as if one era is more significant than the other. Thats my only real gripe with the culture here. Too much looking back and not enough looking forward.
- Daub 8mo ago
  To a degree you have a point. Indeed, this is exactly one of the points of attraction that Asia holds for me. Anecdote: my Japanese girl friend showed me a bunch of Japanese coins. I thought they were cool and asked if I could have one. She agreed and I selected the oldest, to which her response was 'that so British'. However.... the point I was making was somewhat different. The buildings of Borough market are still there. What has changed is the community, which has been replaced outright. Moreover, it has been replaced with a 'pseudo community' akin to what you might find in an airport - transient office workers looking for somewhere a short distance from city center. It is the commodification of community - sold to the highest bidder.
  - Schiendelman 8mo ago
    That transience, ironically, comes from the regulatory structure we try to use to protect community by trying to protect the buildings themselves. The things we've done that make it hard to build end up preventing new downtowns and markets in places that don't have them today, like residential areas. So then everyone's forced to the old markets for all their new needs, transforming them. If we let go, we'd see new downtowns and new markets in places that might be suburbs today, just like the old markets happened - organically, where a developer thinks they'll make money on one.

by Daub 8mo ago

fennecbutt 8mo ago

Eh I live in the UK (wasn't born here) and I think they hold onto too much for too long here. How many "examples of a Victorian house" do you really need? Japan is a perfect example of picking and choosing, keeping the very important things and building new things everywhere else. How long will the UK keep all of these decrepit buildings? 100 more years? 1000? 10000? And what a loss to history, in trying to keep "the good old days" alive that you don't allow current and future generations to also leave a mark in history, as if one era is more significant than the other. Thats my only real gripe with the culture here. Too much looking back and not enough looking forward.

Daub 8mo ago
To a degree you have a point. Indeed, this is exactly one of the points of attraction that Asia holds for me. Anecdote: my Japanese girl friend showed me a bunch of Japanese coins. I thought they were cool and asked if I could have one. She agreed and I selected the oldest, to which her response was 'that so British'. However.... the point I was making was somewhat different. The buildings of Borough market are still there. What has changed is the community, which has been replaced outright. Moreover, it has been replaced with a 'pseudo community' akin to what you might find in an airport - transient office workers looking for somewhere a short distance from city center. It is the commodification of community - sold to the highest bidder.
- Schiendelman 8mo ago
  That transience, ironically, comes from the regulatory structure we try to use to protect community by trying to protect the buildings themselves. The things we've done that make it hard to build end up preventing new downtowns and markets in places that don't have them today, like residential areas. So then everyone's forced to the old markets for all their new needs, transforming them. If we let go, we'd see new downtowns and new markets in places that might be suburbs today, just like the old markets happened - organically, where a developer thinks they'll make money on one.