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I have no problem with experienced senior devs using agents to write good code faster. What I have a problem with is inexperienced "vibecoders" who don't care t

by 63 8mo ago

I have no problem with experienced senior devs using agents to write good code faster. What I have a problem with is inexperienced "vibecoders" who don't care to learn and instead use agents to write awful buggy code that will make the product harder to build on even for the agents. It used to be that lack of a basic understanding of the system was a barrier for people, but now it's not, so we're flooded with code written by imperfect models conducted by people who don't know good from bad.

codebolt 8mo ago
Where are you encountering all this slop code? At my work we use LLMs heavily and I don't see this issue. Maybe I'm just lucky that my colleagues all have Uni degrees in CS and at least a few years experience.
- post-it 8mo ago
  > Maybe I'm just lucky that my colleagues all have Uni degrees in CS and at least a few years experience. That's why. I was using Claude the other day to greenfield a side project and it wanted to do some important logic on the frontend that would have allowed unauthenticated users to write into my database. It was easy to spot for me, because I've been writing software for years, and it only took a single prompt to fix. But a vibe coder wouldn't have caught it and hackers would've pwned their webapp.
  - giancarlostoro 8mo ago
    You can also ask Claude to review all the code for security issues and code smells, you'd be surprised what it finds. We all write insecure code in our first pass through if we're too focused on getting the proof of concept worked out, security isnt always the very 1st thing coded, maybe its the very next thing, maybe it comes 10 changes later.
    - blibble 8mo ago
      > We all write insecure code in our first pass through no, we don't
      - giancarlostoro 8mo ago
        Yes we do, you don't just start a brand new web project and spit out CORS rules, authentication schemes, roles, etc in one sitting do you? Are you an AI?
        blibble 8mo ago
        > are you an AI? no, I'm a competent engineer maybe you've not worked with any
        giancarlostoro 8mo ago
        So let me get this straight, you get instructed to build an Instagram clone, and you sit down and one shot code every single feature for the project? My point is about in one sitting, doing EVERYTHING all at once, without pausing, without standing up, without breaks. I don't know about you but people who tend to rush code out make just as many if not worse mistakes than AI does. I've worked with many competent engineers and have built things people couldn't even google help for before AI existed, and that surpassed mine and my teams expectations both solo and in a team setting, none of them were done in one sitting, which is what you're suggesting. Everything is planned out, and done piecemeal. For the record, I can one shot an AI model to do all of those things, with all the detail they need and get similar output as if I gave a human all those tasks, I know because I've built the exact tooling to loop AI around the same processes competent developers use, and it still can do all of it in record time.
        habinero 8mo ago
        > I can one shot an AI model to do all of those things Bullshit you can lol. If it's that trivial, create an instagram right now and post the code.
  - deleted 8mo ago
    [deleted]
- bowsamic 8mo ago
  The issue isn't when the programmers start using it. It's when the project managers start using it and think that they're producing something similar to the programmers
bdangubic 8mo ago
the number of experienced, senior programmers though, who are in “anti-LLM” camp, is still fairly staggering.
- estimator7292 8mo ago
  I mean when the tag line is "this will replace senior engineers and you, the senior engineer, must be forced to use it" Then yeah, it makes sense.
  - girvo 8mo ago
    Yeah I’m baffled why people are surprised that senior+ engineers who are being told in one breath they will be replaced by this tool and also they MUST use this tool to make it better to replace them aren’t happy about it or want to use it willingly. I also find it wild how we’re sleepwalking into this, but I’m also part of the problem and using these things too.
    - ares623 8mo ago
      If you're forced to use it by company mandate then that's fine. If you're not forced and still use it being fully aware, then I wish you well.
      - girvo 8mo ago
        I’m forced to yes. It’s tracked.
    - bdangubic 8mo ago
      as nvidia CEO wisely said - you won’t be replaced by these tools, you will be replaced by folk who excel at utilizing these tools
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
- lins1909 8mo ago
remich 8mo ago
We're in a transition phase, but this will shake out in the near future. In the non-professional space, poorly built vibecoded apps simply won't last, for any number of reasons. When it comes to professional devs, this is a problem that is solved by a combination of tooling, process, and management: (1) Tooling to enable better evaluation of generated code and its adherence to conventions and norms (2) Process to impose requirements on the creation/exposure of PRDs/prompts/traces (3) Management to guide devs in the use of the above and to implement concrete rewards and consequences Some organizations will be exposed as being deficient in some or all of these areas, and they will struggle. Better organizations will adapt.
- etamponi 8mo ago
  The unfortunate reality is that (1) and (2) is what many, many engineers would like to do, but management is going EXACTLY in the opposite direction: go faster! Go faster! Why are you spending time on these things

by 63 8mo ago

codebolt 8mo ago

Where are you encountering all this slop code? At my work we use LLMs heavily and I don't see this issue. Maybe I'm just lucky that my colleagues all have Uni degrees in CS and at least a few years experience.

post-it 8mo ago
> Maybe I'm just lucky that my colleagues all have Uni degrees in CS and at least a few years experience. That's why. I was using Claude the other day to greenfield a side project and it wanted to do some important logic on the frontend that would have allowed unauthenticated users to write into my database. It was easy to spot for me, because I've been writing software for years, and it only took a single prompt to fix. But a vibe coder wouldn't have caught it and hackers would've pwned their webapp.
- giancarlostoro 8mo ago
  You can also ask Claude to review all the code for security issues and code smells, you'd be surprised what it finds. We all write insecure code in our first pass through if we're too focused on getting the proof of concept worked out, security isnt always the very 1st thing coded, maybe its the very next thing, maybe it comes 10 changes later.
  - blibble 8mo ago
    > We all write insecure code in our first pass through no, we don't
    - giancarlostoro 8mo ago
      Yes we do, you don't just start a brand new web project and spit out CORS rules, authentication schemes, roles, etc in one sitting do you? Are you an AI?
      - blibble 8mo ago
        > are you an AI? no, I'm a competent engineer maybe you've not worked with any
        giancarlostoro 8mo ago
        So let me get this straight, you get instructed to build an Instagram clone, and you sit down and one shot code every single feature for the project? My point is about in one sitting, doing EVERYTHING all at once, without pausing, without standing up, without breaks. I don't know about you but people who tend to rush code out make just as many if not worse mistakes than AI does. I've worked with many competent engineers and have built things people couldn't even google help for before AI existed, and that surpassed mine and my teams expectations both solo and in a team setting, none of them were done in one sitting, which is what you're suggesting. Everything is planned out, and done piecemeal. For the record, I can one shot an AI model to do all of those things, with all the detail they need and get similar output as if I gave a human all those tasks, I know because I've built the exact tooling to loop AI around the same processes competent developers use, and it still can do all of it in record time.
        habinero 8mo ago
        > I can one shot an AI model to do all of those things Bullshit you can lol. If it's that trivial, create an instagram right now and post the code.
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
bowsamic 8mo ago
The issue isn't when the programmers start using it. It's when the project managers start using it and think that they're producing something similar to the programmers

bdangubic 8mo ago

the number of experienced, senior programmers though, who are in “anti-LLM” camp, is still fairly staggering.

estimator7292 8mo ago
I mean when the tag line is "this will replace senior engineers and you, the senior engineer, must be forced to use it" Then yeah, it makes sense.
- girvo 8mo ago
  Yeah I’m baffled why people are surprised that senior+ engineers who are being told in one breath they will be replaced by this tool and also they MUST use this tool to make it better to replace them aren’t happy about it or want to use it willingly. I also find it wild how we’re sleepwalking into this, but I’m also part of the problem and using these things too.
  - ares623 8mo ago
    If you're forced to use it by company mandate then that's fine. If you're not forced and still use it being fully aware, then I wish you well.
    - girvo 8mo ago
      I’m forced to yes. It’s tracked.
  - bdangubic 8mo ago
    as nvidia CEO wisely said - you won’t be replaced by these tools, you will be replaced by folk who excel at utilizing these tools
deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
lins1909 8mo ago

remich 8mo ago

We're in a transition phase, but this will shake out in the near future. In the non-professional space, poorly built vibecoded apps simply won't last, for any number of reasons. When it comes to professional devs, this is a problem that is solved by a combination of tooling, process, and management: (1) Tooling to enable better evaluation of generated code and its adherence to conventions and norms (2) Process to impose requirements on the creation/exposure of PRDs/prompts/traces (3) Management to guide devs in the use of the above and to implement concrete rewards and consequences Some organizations will be exposed as being deficient in some or all of these areas, and they will struggle. Better organizations will adapt.

etamponi 8mo ago
The unfortunate reality is that (1) and (2) is what many, many engineers would like to do, but management is going EXACTLY in the opposite direction: go faster! Go faster! Why are you spending time on these things