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In case anyone was wondering what the Apple Car would have looked like inside, it would have been roughly this. As an Apple Car™ it makes sense, but as a Ferra

In case anyone was wondering what the Apple Car would have looked like inside, it would have been roughly this. As an Apple Car™ it makes sense, but as a Ferrari it's incredibly soulless and oversimplified. This Ive design aesthetic (Dieter Rams' aesthetic really) is fine on consumer electronics where you want the device to disappear and give way to the display, but on something as emotional as a vehicle (Ferrari especially), this design falls flat. I do hope some of the design details work their way through the industry (e.g. using glass instead of gloss black plastic, convex glass to add depth to digital gauges), but I hope the rest of it stays as a one-off experiment demonstrating the hubris and one-dimensionality of a top designer.

wahnfrieden 8mo ago
What is oversimplified specifically (given this is an electric car)
- estearum 8mo ago
  IMO if they just had materials with any sort of visual interest to them, this would be pretty beautiful. Instead it feels like sitting inside an iPad which is an aesthetic already cheaply deployed at massive scale to motels, pharmacies, and shitty coffee shops.
- anonym00se1 8mo ago
  This question's answer would require something more lecture length that dives into fundamentals of design with an equal amount of time spent on automotive design. No one has the time or care for something like that, so I'll try to give a high level answer. Generally speaking, cars are not about simple designs/shapes. They, especially to enthusiasts, are viewed as something closer to art where care is taken to craft shapes and forms for both function and feel. This is amplified dramatically for Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc.. Ive was clearly doing this design work for the Apple EV that never shipped. It followed Apple's historic design aesthetic (driven largely by him) of simplifying things as much as possible--using circles and squircles everywhere, removing as many unnecessary geometry as possible. That's fine for an Apple EV because that's their design aesthetic. That is, demonstrably, not Ferrari's design aesthetic. It's a jarring departure from decades of automotive design and, in my professional opinion, an exercise in hubris. As we remember that design is largely subjective and that this is all my opinion, I will say that almost everything in the vehicle is overly simplified: * Steering wheel: an attempt at modern retro, but they added two blobs (to keep the steering wheel simple) to house the dials and buttons instead of incorporating it in a sculpted, thoughtful way. Instead of putting the turn signals in those blobs (or elsewhere), they interrupted the simple steering wheel with a couple circles to act as the turn signals. * Digital instrument cluster: it's an iPad that connects to the base of the steering wheel. Wasted space in the top corners. Convex glass is a really nice touch however. Gauges are strange to me (gas gauge for an EV, left dial is confusing at first glance, G-force gauge unnecessarily busy), but that can always be changed later so not worth waxing on about. * The key: a small iPhone 4. It's not terrible, but it's rather uninspired and boring. Ferraris aren't supposed to be boring. * Dashboard interface: another iPad, but with a Mac Pro handle on it. Might be very nice for moving it, but how often are you going to do that? Does it stick out far enough to act as a wrist-rest as mentioned in their video? The mechanical switches are a nice touch if the display/UI keeps up. The clock/compass/stopwatch in the top right is neat, but almost antithetical to the rest of the design--it's added complexity for the sake of complexity. I still like it though. * Vents: these make sense to be simplified. I've never loved the number of flaps in most vehicles, but if you have kids you might have issues with toys/food getting lost inside if there's no mesh behind it. * Seats are nice, but if you removed the Ferrari emblem would you know it's a Ferrari? Is there enough bolstering for spirited driving? The shapes, iconography, etc. are all carried over from Apple devices. Cars, even in EV form, are not iPads and iPhones. Cars, particularly those like Ferraris, are supposed to be designed, sculpted, given character and flare in order to evoke emotion. Rivian and Porsche, in my opinion, have designed beautiful EVs (inside and out). They have a design aesthetic that's unique to them and in the case of Porsche stays true to the brand. The Ferrari Luce looks like Ferrari hired Ive to take whatever work he did for Apple and copy paste it over to them. If this was announced as an Ive + Kia/Hyundai/Honda/Lexus/etc. collaboration would it look any more or less out of place? No, because it's been simplified to the point that it doesn't even look designed any more. It almost feels "default" in a way. This is all just my opinion as someone that's been doing product engineering and industrial design for a long time and happens to love cars--take it with a grain of salt.
  - estearum 8mo ago
    +1 to everything you say here, but unfortunately I doubt this will sway anyone who doesn't have similar feelings upon just looking at the thing with their own two eyes.
    - wahnfrieden 8mo ago
      I can understand the distaste for it, but was specifically curious what it lost in oversimplification. Some of the critique is not about simplification after all but was interesting anyway thanks
  - Guyadou 8mo ago
    Excellent argument, but I disagree on the key. I think the key is one of the most thoughtful signs of care. The experience of it going inside the gear shifter and all the gears turning on is a small detail, but it makes the experience very lively. I think that's an excellent way to delight the driver.
actionfromafar 8mo ago
So bland. An iPad put in a holder. I was not exactly hoping for, because I didn't really, but I dreamt of a much more radical design direction.
- rob74 8mo ago
  I first thought that too, but if you take the time to scroll down a bit, you'll see that the instruments are actually three separate screens, and at least the center one has a mechanical needle. Also, the central control panel has lots of physical switches (Musk would hate it) and even a round instrument in the top right corner with mechanical hands, which can be either a clock, a stopwatch or (for whatever reason) a compass. So definitely not an iPad put in a holder.
  - actionfromafar 8mo ago
    No not literally, but that is what it looks like. It would have been much better imho to for instance have lots of tiny screens embedded in the dashboard/console alongside their respective buttons. Each "app" gets their own toggle and physical dials. That would have been expensive and cool and could have been made not-tacky. (Like some cars are, expensive and cool but also without any class whatsoever, they look like a teenage gaming room.)
    - deleted 8mo ago
      [deleted]
- m000 8mo ago
  At least it's not your living room TV put in a holder. (Hi Elon!)
stackghost 8mo ago
[dead]
ManuelKiessling 8mo ago
Well, that’s the problem with product design — looking at it simply doesn’t suffice. It needs to be experienced in person. Well, that’s not (yet) possible, but this video does a good job in the meantime: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wv1btxCjVE&pp=ygUQTG92ZWZyb20gZmVycmFyaQ%3D%3D https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wv1btxCjVE&pp=ygUQTG92ZWZyb20...
- anonym00se1 8mo ago
  Everything will undoubtedly feel nice/premium as a result of being metal and glass, but you spend more time looking at the entire interior than touching every part of it, so appearance is important.
  - Retric 8mo ago
    Car interiors are static so your brain very quickly ignores it while driving or after owning the car for a while. The interface / ergonomics on the other hand end up way more important than anything else when it comes to personal enjoyment of the interior.
    - carefree-bob 8mo ago
      For things like volume, A/C, adjusting mirrors and seats, I really, really want physical buttons. Not sure what I will do after my old Volvo dies, maybe the touchscreen mania will have gone away by then and physical buttons will be back. I can't imagine myself touching a screen while driving, I don't even know how I would be able to do that.
      - pmg101 8mo ago
        I drive a 2022 EV which has physical buttons for all the things you mention so you're good for a while
      - virgilp 8mo ago
        > after my old Volvo dies That's another 20 years mate.
alhazrod 8mo ago
I think the Aston Marting with the Apple Carplay Ultra[0] is a pretty good example of what an Apple Car would have looked like. [0]: https://www.astonmartin.com/en-us/our-world/brand-stories/aston-martin-and-apple-carplay-ultra https://www.astonmartin.com/en-us/our-world/brand-stories/as...
beambot 8mo ago
> but on something as emotional as a vehicle (Ferrari especially), this design falls flat. Strongly disagree. To each their own...
- anonym00se1 8mo ago
  There will undoubtedly be people that like or love it and there's nothing wrong with that. Design is rather subjective. Fortunately I'm not in the market for a $300,000+ EV made by Ferrari, so I don't have to lose sleep at night over buying this or not :)
danielrhodes 8mo ago
It certainly looks like an Apple device. Ive's aesthetic is Apple's aesthetic, so if you hire Ive, that is what you are going to get. I can see a car company who doesn't care about design stumbling into this outcome, but Ferrari doesn't seem like that kind of company. So the choice must have been intentional.
- kraig 8mo ago
  As Ferrari has been proving over the last few generations, they know how to make engines but Pininfarina knows how to design cars. I'm not even slightly surprised by the Luce.
  - Incipient 8mo ago
    I wonder if that explains why mahinda's designs are significantly better (if still not great).
- JSR_FDED 8mo ago
  Marc Newson is a “Watch Guy” and this also clearly comes across.
retired 8mo ago
Ferrari interiors have always been spartan and aimed at functionality. This feels like a modern Ferrari F40 dashboard and I like it a lot.
- anonym00se1 8mo ago
  This is an enormous departure from Ferrari interiors to the point where it no longer looks anything like a Ferrari beyond the emblems inside.
  - ta20240528 8mo ago
    Yes, the dashboard must be tan. Like in Magnum PI.
    - tim333 8mo ago
      I don't think the dashboard was tan. The seats maybe https://car-images.bauersecure.com/wp-images/202622/1040x0/magnum_pi_ferrari_308_gts_07.jpg https://car-images.bauersecure.com/wp-images/202622/1040x0/m... I used to have a 308. You don't notice the dash design much while being distracted by the noise it makes, heavy steering and awkward gear change. Nice body styling though.
      - ta20240528 8mo ago
        vetroresina or steel?
carefree-bob 8mo ago
EVs have a weight issue that fundamentally constrains their overall design. It is really a tough engineering problem to try to shave weight off of everything, because you are starting out with a 700kg battery replacing a 400kg engine + transmission, so you are ~300kg in the hole, and need to remove 300 kg from the rest of the car. That's why they do crazy stuff like use the battery as part of the structural frame, to save on metal there. Every extra kilogram reduces range. Solid things are made hollow. Metal is replaced by plastic. Fabrics are thinner or replaced with lighter-weight engineered materials. Lots of things are removed. Physical buttons gone, flourishes gone, handles gone. Seats are made thinner and with less material. See how they brag about a simpler new steering wheel that is 400g lighter? All of that and still they come up with a 2300 kg compact two row SUV. So, if you are going to be redesigning everything anyway to try to get rid of as much weight as possible, why not hire a designer known for sparse, minimalistic, clean design? It makes sense. It may not be what Ferrari buyers want, but you can't really blame Ferrari for giving it a try. We'll see how well it sells.
- anonym00se1 8mo ago
  Given the heavy use of metal and glass to replace plastic parts, I suspect LoveFrom did the exact opposite of shaving weight off the interior :)
- kjellsbells 8mo ago
  I wonder what the speed/weight tradeoff is on a Ferrari though. Eg on a Bugatti they can put in a beast of an engine (heavy) because their buyers care only about power output and if it gets 8 miles to a gallon who cares. On an electric sports car, where does the break lie between extra weight for a powerful battery and too much weight to make the car go vroom? Side note: I wonder if, in 20 years, petrol cars will the preserve of the very rich and the very poor.
  - c22 8mo ago
    > Side note: I wonder if, in 20 years, petrol cars will the preserve of the very rich and the very poor. Sure, except the very poor will be eco criminals (due to being unable to maintain their equipment to relevent emission standards/pay the associated offset fees) and will be selectively hounded and exploited by law enforcement.
gyomu 8mo ago
The inside of the Apple Car looked nothing like this - primarily because "driving" is the main activity the design of this Ferrari is intended to serve, and "driving" was not an activity that the Apple car intended to support.
- fragmede 8mo ago
  You're driving it wrong.
marcomonteiro 8mo ago
There was never an Apple Car, but if there was ever a thing that might have become an Apple Car it wouldn’t look anything like this.
robinhood 8mo ago
I don't quite agree with this statement. I would rephrase it like that: If Apple had built a car, this is the care and though process that we would have seen - incredible attention to details. But it would not have looked anything like what we’re seeing with Ferrari.
rawgabbit 8mo ago
I am mostly OK with the wheel and the binnacle(?) cluster of gauges. The things I don’t like is instead of a stalk for the blinkers/turn signal, it is buttons on the wheel? (Should have been two mini paddles above the big paddles). I especially hate the two triangular control modules. They are ugly and useless. It is a Ferrari I want performance mode all the time. For cruise control, it should have been two mini paddles below the big paddles. The worst is the center Tesla like display. Steve Jobs IMO would have drawn the line there and said no displays. He probably would have said you should connect your phone and fiddle with whatever in the app. The overhead Launch pull button is really silly. This is screaming look at me and my mid life crisis.
make3 8mo ago
"this design falls flat" he says, as if it was an objective fact and not a personal preference

wahnfrieden 8mo ago

What is oversimplified specifically (given this is an electric car)

estearum 8mo ago
IMO if they just had materials with any sort of visual interest to them, this would be pretty beautiful. Instead it feels like sitting inside an iPad which is an aesthetic already cheaply deployed at massive scale to motels, pharmacies, and shitty coffee shops.
anonym00se1 8mo ago
This question's answer would require something more lecture length that dives into fundamentals of design with an equal amount of time spent on automotive design. No one has the time or care for something like that, so I'll try to give a high level answer. Generally speaking, cars are not about simple designs/shapes. They, especially to enthusiasts, are viewed as something closer to art where care is taken to craft shapes and forms for both function and feel. This is amplified dramatically for Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc.. Ive was clearly doing this design work for the Apple EV that never shipped. It followed Apple's historic design aesthetic (driven largely by him) of simplifying things as much as possible--using circles and squircles everywhere, removing as many unnecessary geometry as possible. That's fine for an Apple EV because that's their design aesthetic. That is, demonstrably, not Ferrari's design aesthetic. It's a jarring departure from decades of automotive design and, in my professional opinion, an exercise in hubris. As we remember that design is largely subjective and that this is all my opinion, I will say that almost everything in the vehicle is overly simplified: * Steering wheel: an attempt at modern retro, but they added two blobs (to keep the steering wheel simple) to house the dials and buttons instead of incorporating it in a sculpted, thoughtful way. Instead of putting the turn signals in those blobs (or elsewhere), they interrupted the simple steering wheel with a couple circles to act as the turn signals. * Digital instrument cluster: it's an iPad that connects to the base of the steering wheel. Wasted space in the top corners. Convex glass is a really nice touch however. Gauges are strange to me (gas gauge for an EV, left dial is confusing at first glance, G-force gauge unnecessarily busy), but that can always be changed later so not worth waxing on about. * The key: a small iPhone 4. It's not terrible, but it's rather uninspired and boring. Ferraris aren't supposed to be boring. * Dashboard interface: another iPad, but with a Mac Pro handle on it. Might be very nice for moving it, but how often are you going to do that? Does it stick out far enough to act as a wrist-rest as mentioned in their video? The mechanical switches are a nice touch if the display/UI keeps up. The clock/compass/stopwatch in the top right is neat, but almost antithetical to the rest of the design--it's added complexity for the sake of complexity. I still like it though. * Vents: these make sense to be simplified. I've never loved the number of flaps in most vehicles, but if you have kids you might have issues with toys/food getting lost inside if there's no mesh behind it. * Seats are nice, but if you removed the Ferrari emblem would you know it's a Ferrari? Is there enough bolstering for spirited driving? The shapes, iconography, etc. are all carried over from Apple devices. Cars, even in EV form, are not iPads and iPhones. Cars, particularly those like Ferraris, are supposed to be designed, sculpted, given character and flare in order to evoke emotion. Rivian and Porsche, in my opinion, have designed beautiful EVs (inside and out). They have a design aesthetic that's unique to them and in the case of Porsche stays true to the brand. The Ferrari Luce looks like Ferrari hired Ive to take whatever work he did for Apple and copy paste it over to them. If this was announced as an Ive + Kia/Hyundai/Honda/Lexus/etc. collaboration would it look any more or less out of place? No, because it's been simplified to the point that it doesn't even look designed any more. It almost feels "default" in a way. This is all just my opinion as someone that's been doing product engineering and industrial design for a long time and happens to love cars--take it with a grain of salt.
- estearum 8mo ago
  +1 to everything you say here, but unfortunately I doubt this will sway anyone who doesn't have similar feelings upon just looking at the thing with their own two eyes.
  - wahnfrieden 8mo ago
    I can understand the distaste for it, but was specifically curious what it lost in oversimplification. Some of the critique is not about simplification after all but was interesting anyway thanks
- Guyadou 8mo ago
  Excellent argument, but I disagree on the key. I think the key is one of the most thoughtful signs of care. The experience of it going inside the gear shifter and all the gears turning on is a small detail, but it makes the experience very lively. I think that's an excellent way to delight the driver.

actionfromafar 8mo ago

So bland. An iPad put in a holder. I was not exactly hoping for, because I didn't really, but I dreamt of a much more radical design direction.

rob74 8mo ago
I first thought that too, but if you take the time to scroll down a bit, you'll see that the instruments are actually three separate screens, and at least the center one has a mechanical needle. Also, the central control panel has lots of physical switches (Musk would hate it) and even a round instrument in the top right corner with mechanical hands, which can be either a clock, a stopwatch or (for whatever reason) a compass. So definitely not an iPad put in a holder.
- actionfromafar 8mo ago
  No not literally, but that is what it looks like. It would have been much better imho to for instance have lots of tiny screens embedded in the dashboard/console alongside their respective buttons. Each "app" gets their own toggle and physical dials. That would have been expensive and cool and could have been made not-tacky. (Like some cars are, expensive and cool but also without any class whatsoever, they look like a teenage gaming room.)
  - deleted 8mo ago
    [deleted]
m000 8mo ago
At least it's not your living room TV put in a holder. (Hi Elon!)

stackghost 8mo ago

[dead]

ManuelKiessling 8mo ago

Well, that’s the problem with product design — looking at it simply doesn’t suffice. It needs to be experienced in person. Well, that’s not (yet) possible, but this video does a good job in the meantime: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wv1btxCjVE&pp=ygUQTG92ZWZyb20gZmVycmFyaQ%3D%3D https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wv1btxCjVE&pp=ygUQTG92ZWZyb20...

anonym00se1 8mo ago
Everything will undoubtedly feel nice/premium as a result of being metal and glass, but you spend more time looking at the entire interior than touching every part of it, so appearance is important.
- Retric 8mo ago
  Car interiors are static so your brain very quickly ignores it while driving or after owning the car for a while. The interface / ergonomics on the other hand end up way more important than anything else when it comes to personal enjoyment of the interior.
  - carefree-bob 8mo ago
    For things like volume, A/C, adjusting mirrors and seats, I really, really want physical buttons. Not sure what I will do after my old Volvo dies, maybe the touchscreen mania will have gone away by then and physical buttons will be back. I can't imagine myself touching a screen while driving, I don't even know how I would be able to do that.
    - pmg101 8mo ago
      I drive a 2022 EV which has physical buttons for all the things you mention so you're good for a while
    - virgilp 8mo ago
      > after my old Volvo dies That's another 20 years mate.

alhazrod 8mo ago

I think the Aston Marting with the Apple Carplay Ultra[0] is a pretty good example of what an Apple Car would have looked like. [0]: https://www.astonmartin.com/en-us/our-world/brand-stories/aston-martin-and-apple-carplay-ultra https://www.astonmartin.com/en-us/our-world/brand-stories/as...

beambot 8mo ago

> but on something as emotional as a vehicle (Ferrari especially), this design falls flat. Strongly disagree. To each their own...

anonym00se1 8mo ago
There will undoubtedly be people that like or love it and there's nothing wrong with that. Design is rather subjective. Fortunately I'm not in the market for a $300,000+ EV made by Ferrari, so I don't have to lose sleep at night over buying this or not :)

danielrhodes 8mo ago

It certainly looks like an Apple device. Ive's aesthetic is Apple's aesthetic, so if you hire Ive, that is what you are going to get. I can see a car company who doesn't care about design stumbling into this outcome, but Ferrari doesn't seem like that kind of company. So the choice must have been intentional.

kraig 8mo ago
As Ferrari has been proving over the last few generations, they know how to make engines but Pininfarina knows how to design cars. I'm not even slightly surprised by the Luce.
- Incipient 8mo ago
  I wonder if that explains why mahinda's designs are significantly better (if still not great).
JSR_FDED 8mo ago
Marc Newson is a “Watch Guy” and this also clearly comes across.

retired 8mo ago

Ferrari interiors have always been spartan and aimed at functionality. This feels like a modern Ferrari F40 dashboard and I like it a lot.

anonym00se1 8mo ago
This is an enormous departure from Ferrari interiors to the point where it no longer looks anything like a Ferrari beyond the emblems inside.
- ta20240528 8mo ago
  Yes, the dashboard must be tan. Like in Magnum PI.
  - tim333 8mo ago
    I don't think the dashboard was tan. The seats maybe https://car-images.bauersecure.com/wp-images/202622/1040x0/magnum_pi_ferrari_308_gts_07.jpg https://car-images.bauersecure.com/wp-images/202622/1040x0/m... I used to have a 308. You don't notice the dash design much while being distracted by the noise it makes, heavy steering and awkward gear change. Nice body styling though.
    - ta20240528 8mo ago
      vetroresina or steel?

carefree-bob 8mo ago

EVs have a weight issue that fundamentally constrains their overall design. It is really a tough engineering problem to try to shave weight off of everything, because you are starting out with a 700kg battery replacing a 400kg engine + transmission, so you are ~300kg in the hole, and need to remove 300 kg from the rest of the car. That's why they do crazy stuff like use the battery as part of the structural frame, to save on metal there. Every extra kilogram reduces range. Solid things are made hollow. Metal is replaced by plastic. Fabrics are thinner or replaced with lighter-weight engineered materials. Lots of things are removed. Physical buttons gone, flourishes gone, handles gone. Seats are made thinner and with less material. See how they brag about a simpler new steering wheel that is 400g lighter? All of that and still they come up with a 2300 kg compact two row SUV. So, if you are going to be redesigning everything anyway to try to get rid of as much weight as possible, why not hire a designer known for sparse, minimalistic, clean design? It makes sense. It may not be what Ferrari buyers want, but you can't really blame Ferrari for giving it a try. We'll see how well it sells.

anonym00se1 8mo ago
Given the heavy use of metal and glass to replace plastic parts, I suspect LoveFrom did the exact opposite of shaving weight off the interior :)
kjellsbells 8mo ago
I wonder what the speed/weight tradeoff is on a Ferrari though. Eg on a Bugatti they can put in a beast of an engine (heavy) because their buyers care only about power output and if it gets 8 miles to a gallon who cares. On an electric sports car, where does the break lie between extra weight for a powerful battery and too much weight to make the car go vroom? Side note: I wonder if, in 20 years, petrol cars will the preserve of the very rich and the very poor.
- c22 8mo ago
  > Side note: I wonder if, in 20 years, petrol cars will the preserve of the very rich and the very poor. Sure, except the very poor will be eco criminals (due to being unable to maintain their equipment to relevent emission standards/pay the associated offset fees) and will be selectively hounded and exploited by law enforcement.

gyomu 8mo ago

The inside of the Apple Car looked nothing like this - primarily because "driving" is the main activity the design of this Ferrari is intended to serve, and "driving" was not an activity that the Apple car intended to support.

fragmede 8mo ago
You're driving it wrong.

marcomonteiro 8mo ago

There was never an Apple Car, but if there was ever a thing that might have become an Apple Car it wouldn’t look anything like this.

robinhood 8mo ago

I don't quite agree with this statement. I would rephrase it like that: If Apple had built a car, this is the care and though process that we would have seen - incredible attention to details. But it would not have looked anything like what we’re seeing with Ferrari.

rawgabbit 8mo ago

I am mostly OK with the wheel and the binnacle(?) cluster of gauges. The things I don’t like is instead of a stalk for the blinkers/turn signal, it is buttons on the wheel? (Should have been two mini paddles above the big paddles). I especially hate the two triangular control modules. They are ugly and useless. It is a Ferrari I want performance mode all the time. For cruise control, it should have been two mini paddles below the big paddles. The worst is the center Tesla like display. Steve Jobs IMO would have drawn the line there and said no displays. He probably would have said you should connect your phone and fiddle with whatever in the app. The overhead Launch pull button is really silly. This is screaming look at me and my mid life crisis.

make3 8mo ago

"this design falls flat" he says, as if it was an objective fact and not a personal preference