5 ms·

There are more options than nothing or war.

by 2OEH8eoCRo0 9mo ago

grunder_advice 9mo ago
It's not like relations between China and the West aren't already as hostile as the West can tolerate.
- Galanwe 9mo ago
  Where are you from? The US shifted from "China is an economic power we should worry about" to "China is a military power we should worry about", but to me it seems to be a recent mind shift serving the current administration narrative. As a European, I don't think there is much hostility against China here. Sure, people don't like the overall humanitarian situation with Uyghurs; and there are the usual issues with lobbying, intelligence, and currency manipulation, but overall the general public sentiment is rather neutral I would say.
  - dingnuts 9mo ago
    It is amazing in fact how willingly Europe seems to be running into the arms of the actual fascist dictator, Xi, at the first sign of turmoil in the US. The US is written off as a lost cause and you cozy up with a government that is everything you dislike about the current US administration but on steroids. All because the US wants the EU to pay for its own war. youll get cheaper EVs though I guess
    - bovinejoni 9mo ago
      That’s quite an interesting take. You don’t think Europe doing more trade with China (I assume this is what cozying up means?), is a result of a wildly unpredictable trade policy and threats to invade Europe? Instead because the US with their global military presence are sick of footing the bill for it? You’ll get cheaper oil though I guess?
  - nradov 9mo ago
    Not at all. Perhaps you weren't paying attention but the narrative around relations with China started shifting during the Obama administration circa 2011. The bipartisan national security establishment is now broadly aligned with treating China as an adversary and strategic competitor.
    - FpUser 9mo ago
      >"China as an adversary and strategic competitor." Nut sure about adversary. As for strategic competitor - this is normal state of affairs. Countries do compete and it is healthy
      - nradov 9mo ago
        Be sure. The US national security establishment absolutely considers China to be an adversary. Look for terms like "pacing threat" when they discuss military acquisition programs. This is an existential issue. Health has nothing to do with it.
        FpUser 9mo ago
        >"The US national security establishment absolutely considers China to be an adversary" I think any country that does not agree that the US should rule the world and is able to challenge it is considered an adversary.
- philwelch 9mo ago
  Just out of curiosity, what country manufactured the device you typed that comment on? There’s a lot of room for relations to get more hostile.
- phr4ts 9mo ago
  > It's not like relations between China and the West aren't already as hostile as the West can tolerate. It's just the US that's publicly wary of china, heck, it's just Trump
- FridayoLeary 9mo ago
  Nonsense. They can and should push back much more. If Europe were to show a united front there's little China could do to punish them. Their only option would be to cosy up to America/Trump, which is a realistic possibility, but it's something they would be very uncomfortable with.
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
catlikesshrimp 9mo ago
It is uncertain if there are more options for Taiwan. Hong Kong was a lost cause since the British withdrew
- yanhangyhy 9mo ago
  its certain, i ensure you. taiwan wont get the treat like Hong Kong before. Hong Kong proves the one country two system policy is a failure. the only result is war and taiwan will lose
  - stickfigure 9mo ago
    > taiwan will lose That depends on how cowardly the rest of the world acts if/when the time comes.
    - yanhangyhy 9mo ago
      looks at Ukraine, its white people and NATO wont fight for it. how about another group of chinse vs chinese in far far away? and the global south supports china more?
      - nradov 9mo ago
        That's a total non sequitur. Ukraine wasn't a NATO member so why would NATO fight for it? (Several NATO members have given substantial aid to Ukraine.) In terms of a potential conflict between mainland China and Taiwan, the only NATO member with the capacity to do anything is the USA. The other players will be Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, and Australia so the outcome will largely depend on whether they decide to get involved.
        yanhangyhy 9mo ago
        > Ukraine wasn't a NATO member so why would NATO fight for it? so is taiwan. > The other players will be Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, and Australia so the i can ensure you Vietnam and SK wont. and we want Japan to join so much. Aus is like a bonus maybe

There are more options than nothing or war.

grunder_advice 9mo ago

It's not like relations between China and the West aren't already as hostile as the West can tolerate.

Galanwe 9mo ago
Where are you from? The US shifted from "China is an economic power we should worry about" to "China is a military power we should worry about", but to me it seems to be a recent mind shift serving the current administration narrative. As a European, I don't think there is much hostility against China here. Sure, people don't like the overall humanitarian situation with Uyghurs; and there are the usual issues with lobbying, intelligence, and currency manipulation, but overall the general public sentiment is rather neutral I would say.
- dingnuts 9mo ago
  It is amazing in fact how willingly Europe seems to be running into the arms of the actual fascist dictator, Xi, at the first sign of turmoil in the US. The US is written off as a lost cause and you cozy up with a government that is everything you dislike about the current US administration but on steroids. All because the US wants the EU to pay for its own war. youll get cheaper EVs though I guess
  - bovinejoni 9mo ago
    That’s quite an interesting take. You don’t think Europe doing more trade with China (I assume this is what cozying up means?), is a result of a wildly unpredictable trade policy and threats to invade Europe? Instead because the US with their global military presence are sick of footing the bill for it? You’ll get cheaper oil though I guess?
- nradov 9mo ago
  Not at all. Perhaps you weren't paying attention but the narrative around relations with China started shifting during the Obama administration circa 2011. The bipartisan national security establishment is now broadly aligned with treating China as an adversary and strategic competitor.
  - FpUser 9mo ago
    >"China as an adversary and strategic competitor." Nut sure about adversary. As for strategic competitor - this is normal state of affairs. Countries do compete and it is healthy
    - nradov 9mo ago
      Be sure. The US national security establishment absolutely considers China to be an adversary. Look for terms like "pacing threat" when they discuss military acquisition programs. This is an existential issue. Health has nothing to do with it.
      - FpUser 9mo ago
        >"The US national security establishment absolutely considers China to be an adversary" I think any country that does not agree that the US should rule the world and is able to challenge it is considered an adversary.
philwelch 9mo ago
Just out of curiosity, what country manufactured the device you typed that comment on? There’s a lot of room for relations to get more hostile.
phr4ts 9mo ago
> It's not like relations between China and the West aren't already as hostile as the West can tolerate. It's just the US that's publicly wary of china, heck, it's just Trump
FridayoLeary 9mo ago
Nonsense. They can and should push back much more. If Europe were to show a united front there's little China could do to punish them. Their only option would be to cosy up to America/Trump, which is a realistic possibility, but it's something they would be very uncomfortable with.
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]

catlikesshrimp 9mo ago

It is uncertain if there are more options for Taiwan. Hong Kong was a lost cause since the British withdrew

yanhangyhy 9mo ago
its certain, i ensure you. taiwan wont get the treat like Hong Kong before. Hong Kong proves the one country two system policy is a failure. the only result is war and taiwan will lose
- stickfigure 9mo ago
  > taiwan will lose That depends on how cowardly the rest of the world acts if/when the time comes.
  - yanhangyhy 9mo ago
    looks at Ukraine, its white people and NATO wont fight for it. how about another group of chinse vs chinese in far far away? and the global south supports china more?
    - nradov 9mo ago
      That's a total non sequitur. Ukraine wasn't a NATO member so why would NATO fight for it? (Several NATO members have given substantial aid to Ukraine.) In terms of a potential conflict between mainland China and Taiwan, the only NATO member with the capacity to do anything is the USA. The other players will be Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, and Australia so the outcome will largely depend on whether they decide to get involved.
      - yanhangyhy 9mo ago
        > Ukraine wasn't a NATO member so why would NATO fight for it? so is taiwan. > The other players will be Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, and Australia so the i can ensure you Vietnam and SK wont. and we want Japan to join so much. Aus is like a bonus maybe