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The weirdest part is it says Epstein was "found unresponsive in his cell and pronounced dead shortly thereafter." That just doesn't seem like the words you'd u

The weirdest part is it says Epstein was "found unresponsive in his cell and pronounced dead shortly thereafter." That just doesn't seem like the words you'd use to describe a hanging suicide. (Would you really write that the dangling body was "found unresponsive...")

toomuchtodo 8mo ago
I think a fun thought experiment is, "If this is indeed a cover up and he's still alive, how would you find where is currently is?" If he's still dead, I think finding the truth might still be valuable for historical and closure purposes, but not as valuable as the "still alive" scenario.
- saubeidl 8mo ago
  I think "he was murdered by agents of the state before he could reveal anything damaging to the ruling class" is more likely than "he faked his own death and lives on an island somewhere".
  - zahlman 8mo ago
    It seems hard to square that with the fact of the files being released, or indeed of the FBI being able to obtain files in the first place. You'd have to suppose that "the ruling class" expected/expects to be able to tank vast hordes of deeply obsessed Internet randoms poring through all that data, but not be able to tank Epstein himself speaking publicly. On the other hand, as far as I can recall, nothing significant happened after the Panama Papers, so.
    - tim333 8mo ago
      Yeah, I think murdered is clear but by agents of the state isn't. There are loads of people who'd want him dead.
  - lazide 8mo ago
    Eh, dying was only going to make the whole mess higher profile. If they wanted it to stay quiet, throw him in solitary and don’t allow any visitors until he dies of old age.
    - rkomorn 8mo ago
      I don't think they're implying it's likely. Just that it's more likely than the other scenario.
tim333 8mo ago
Another oddity is if you look at photos of the body he was strangled by a narrow thing like a wire, but the sheets wrapped around his neck were not like that at all, and the beds were too low. It seems pretty clear someone strangled him with something like a wire then put the sheets around and hung him up as best they could.
- r721 8mo ago
  Some more details from the recent CBS article: >Thomas told investigators he discovered Epstein in his cell shortly after 6:30 a.m. on Aug.10 and that he "ripped" Epstein down from the hanging position. >Investigators asked what happened to the noose. >"I don't recall taking the noose off. I really don't," he replied. "I don't recall taking the thing from around his neck." >Noel, who remained standing at the cell entrance, told investigators she saw Thomas lower Epstein to the floor but did not see a noose around his neck. >The noose Epstein allegedly used has never been definitively identified. According to the inspector general's report, a noose collected at the scene was later determined not to be the ligature used in Epstein's death. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/epstein-files-jail-cell-death-video-logs/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/epstein-files-jail-cell-death-v...
treetalker 8mo ago
Could be spook speak — conveniently omitting that he was (perhaps) made to be unresponsive by one conspirator; then stating that he was found unresponsive by another; then omitting that he was (perhaps) killed while unresponsive (if not before); and then stating that he was pronounced dead.
staticman2 8mo ago
> The weirdest part is it says Epstein was "found unresponsive in his cell and pronounced dead shortly thereafter." What says that? I don't see the document linked to in that article at all. The article seems to essentially be spam.

toomuchtodo 8mo ago

I think a fun thought experiment is, "If this is indeed a cover up and he's still alive, how would you find where is currently is?" If he's still dead, I think finding the truth might still be valuable for historical and closure purposes, but not as valuable as the "still alive" scenario.

saubeidl 8mo ago
I think "he was murdered by agents of the state before he could reveal anything damaging to the ruling class" is more likely than "he faked his own death and lives on an island somewhere".
- zahlman 8mo ago
  It seems hard to square that with the fact of the files being released, or indeed of the FBI being able to obtain files in the first place. You'd have to suppose that "the ruling class" expected/expects to be able to tank vast hordes of deeply obsessed Internet randoms poring through all that data, but not be able to tank Epstein himself speaking publicly. On the other hand, as far as I can recall, nothing significant happened after the Panama Papers, so.
  - tim333 8mo ago
    Yeah, I think murdered is clear but by agents of the state isn't. There are loads of people who'd want him dead.
- lazide 8mo ago
  Eh, dying was only going to make the whole mess higher profile. If they wanted it to stay quiet, throw him in solitary and don’t allow any visitors until he dies of old age.
  - rkomorn 8mo ago
    I don't think they're implying it's likely. Just that it's more likely than the other scenario.

tim333 8mo ago

Another oddity is if you look at photos of the body he was strangled by a narrow thing like a wire, but the sheets wrapped around his neck were not like that at all, and the beds were too low. It seems pretty clear someone strangled him with something like a wire then put the sheets around and hung him up as best they could.

r721 8mo ago
Some more details from the recent CBS article: >Thomas told investigators he discovered Epstein in his cell shortly after 6:30 a.m. on Aug.10 and that he "ripped" Epstein down from the hanging position. >Investigators asked what happened to the noose. >"I don't recall taking the noose off. I really don't," he replied. "I don't recall taking the thing from around his neck." >Noel, who remained standing at the cell entrance, told investigators she saw Thomas lower Epstein to the floor but did not see a noose around his neck. >The noose Epstein allegedly used has never been definitively identified. According to the inspector general's report, a noose collected at the scene was later determined not to be the ligature used in Epstein's death. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/epstein-files-jail-cell-death-video-logs/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/epstein-files-jail-cell-death-v...

treetalker 8mo ago

Could be spook speak — conveniently omitting that he was (perhaps) made to be unresponsive by one conspirator; then stating that he was found unresponsive by another; then omitting that he was (perhaps) killed while unresponsive (if not before); and then stating that he was pronounced dead.

staticman2 8mo ago

> The weirdest part is it says Epstein was "found unresponsive in his cell and pronounced dead shortly thereafter." What says that? I don't see the document linked to in that article at all. The article seems to essentially be spam.