5 ms·
Pretty good article until the bizarre post-script where they fall back on the tired "people derive meaning from their work" for why UBI is bad.
by rubenflamshep 8mo ago
Pretty good article until the bizarre post-script where they fall back on the tired "people derive meaning from their work" for why UBI is bad.
- WalterBright 8mo agoMeaning or not, UBI doesn't work because the math doesn't work. > bizarre It isn't bizarre at all. Without work people devolve into playing video games and smoking pot in their mom's basement. I remember summer vacations from school. It was great for a while, but soon I was looking forward to getting back to school.
- krapp 8mo ago>Without work people devolve into playing video games and smoking pot in their mom's basement. Some people might, others wouldn't. Not everyone is a pot-smoking teenager.
- WalterBright 8mo agoPeople like ice cream, too. But not everyone.
- mlrtime 8mo agoYup, there are adults and alcohol too.
- olyjohn 8mo agoI have been off work for over 6 months now. I have been doing so many projects, and exploring so many places, working out, eating healthy, learning, and spending very little money doing so. I actually even quit smoking pot after doing it daily for 10 years. It's been amazing, and I'd rather never go back to work. I don't get how people can get so bored. There's so much to do and see.
- WalterBright 8mo agoBest wishes to you! I'm retired myself, but I work full time (on D). Yale is hosting a symposium on D in April, and I'll be a speaker at it.
- keybored 8mo ago> Best wishes to you! I'm retired myself, but I work full time (on D). Why aren’t you smoking pot in your basement?
- WalterBright 8mo agoI don't like being high.
- keybored 8mo agoYou know what I mean. People can find other things to do than work for a wage. I don’t get what your original objection is about when you yourself work even though you don’t have to. Some local volunteer organizations seem to only have people 60+ years of age.
- tayo42 8mo agoI generally agree, but I think for some of the most interesting problems in computer science you need resources that only companies can provide and thats basically work.
- fraserphysics 8mo agoAfter free UNIX and Linux became available on affordable home computers, I found it was no longer necessary to be at a company to do interesting projects. That was before 1995.
- mlrtime 8mo agoWhat projects? You are starting from a completely different baseline than the average hypothetical UBI recipient. I think UBI advocates may have a point once you're 2-3 generations into some sort of UBI system. But bootstrapping that system is not possible, most people will revert to do nothing of value to society, no projects, nothing.
- rubenflamshep 8mo ago> Without work people devolve into playing video games and smoking pot in their mom's basement. I have no problem finding fulfilling and meaningful projects outside of my work! There are many people like me :)
- WalterBright 8mo ago> There are many people like me I'm sure there are. Doesn't mean most people are like that. Consider retirees. Some find meaningful activities, many just rot away out of not having a purpose. What percentage of people currently living off of welfare are doing meaningful work?
- danparsonson 8mo ago> What percentage of people currently living off of welfare are doing meaningful work? Do you have that number? Do you have any numbers to back up your claims or are you just talking about what works for you?
- WalterBright 8mo agoAccording to google: "Some reports indicate that 26.8% to 28.6% of households on welfare have earned income, which sometimes reflects a focus on households with no work-eligible adults (elderly, disabled)."
- danparsonson 8mo agoSo no, then. Got it.
- mlrtime 8mo agoThis is human nature, most of humans will revert to a baseline of doing the bare minimum to survive. The rest cannot support that system.
- 8mo ago
- devmor 8mo agoYour anecdote is not compliant with reality. Every test of UBI so far shows that people continue to work.
- WalterBright 8mo agoI suspect it was because the UBI wasn't enough to live on.
- devmor 8mo agoSo you believe that the entire driving factor of the consumer goods market would mysteriously disappear if people had enough money to not worry about missing rent?
- direwolf20 8mo agoRent is defined as unearned income attracted by a dominant market position. If we wanted people to afford rent it'd be more efficient to set rent to zero by fiat.
- devmor 8mo agoI agree, but UBI is far more likely to come to fruition than eliminating the majority of the US's largest asset-based speculative market.
- BuyMyBitcoins 8mo agoThere’s no way to test UBI without implementing it fully. Any experiment that gives people a no-strings-attached stipend isn’t accounting for the fact that the money has a negligible impact on the economy and produces no meaningful change in the workforce. Plus, all of these experiments are time-bound. Participants know the payments will stop. I also get the feeling that such experiments just prove that giving people money makes them happier. But there’s nothing to account for the fact that prices in the market haven’t changed, the tax structure hasn’t changed, and no goods or services experienced any shortages.
- watwut 8mo agoHard working billionaires famous for succesdully working devolved into abuse island, real saltiness over anyone saying sexual harrasment is wrong and basically conspiracy to end democracy. UBI guy playing games in moms basement comes accross as harmless in comparison.
- keybored 8mo agoAlways such glowing recommendations of human kind from techies. People devolve like that when they have no purpose or opportunities. Which I’m sure would happen with the real goal of UBI: barely subsistence support in order to grow a larger pool of reserve labor while the rich (who are not degenerate at all[1]) live large. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46929869 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46929869
- WalterBright 8mo agoAmerica offers a free education for all. People are free to move to anyplace in the country. Historically, people migrated to where the opportunities were. Americans are free to start a business any time. Purpose, though, comes from within.
- Marazan 8mo ago> Without work people devolve into playing video games and smoking pot in their mom's basement. Skill issue
- direwolf20 8mo agoIt's universal basic income, not universal extensive income. If someone is a minimal drain on society, so what? We have lots of stuff.
- falloutx 8mo agogovernments will collapse before we are at a moment where UBI is needed. Billionaires and companies hardly pay any tax and if white collar jobs die down, there is no guarantee that government will even have money to wipe their butt.
- api 8mo agoUBI doesn’t mean people don’t work. It means work is partially decoupled from basic needs. People would work for two reasons. One is to make extra money and afford a lifestyle beyond what UBI provides. The second is to… do things that are meaningful. If people derive meaning from work then that’s why they’ll work. Some people will just sit around on UBI. Those are the same people who sit around today on welfare or dead end bullshit jobs that don’t really produce much value. I’m not totally sold on UBI but there’s a lot of shallow bad arguments against it that are pretty easy to dismiss.