12 ms·

The island where people forget to die

332 points by adam 14y ago

kghose 14y ago
Single page, for those who prefer. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/28/magazine/the-island-where-people-forget-to-die.html?hp&_r=0&pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/28/magazine/the-island-where-...
csl 14y ago
Dan Buettner also held a presentation at TED in 2009 called "How to live to be 100+": http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_buettner_how_to_live_to_be_100.html http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_buettner_how_to_live_to_be_100....
goldfeld 14y ago
Really interesting to see this here on my first morning after beginning my segmented sleep experiment. I took a quarter pill of melatonin yesterday around 6pm and slept from 6:30 till 8:30, then quickly fell asleep again till 11:30. I then failed to fall asleep at 2:30am after a wonderful mellow productive night programming session, and had to skip the second sleep. During the morning I found, completely by chance, some articles on a fasting diet from the mark's daily apple blog. And I had been without eating since first falling asleep (and still am), so I eagerly gobbled it up as validation on all those breakfasts I have skipped. And finally I talked with my roomate about living long as related to these little body hacking experiments.
- bagosm 14y ago
  Stop worrying so much about it if you don't want to age fast
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- arbuge 14y ago
  Segmented sleep? Melatonin? Maybe it's just my Mediterranean upbringing talking but I think I'll stick with healthy food, good wine, 8 hours sleep, and surrounding myself with people I like.
  - sukuriant 14y ago
    Nontraditional sleep patterns are a common fad here at HN; though you've been around to probably see one or two of those and are probably trolling to catch people like me, so ... I'll just shut up now.
    - arbuge 14y ago
      Eh? That comment looked like a troll?
      - sukuriant 14y ago
        Not entirely. You sounded like someone that is very happy with their current lifestyle, and even proud of it. This is good. However, given how long you've had an account here, I guessed that you had probably seen the "how to live off >4 hours of sleep a day" articles, and were familiar with that perplexing (to me) style of living.
    - goldfeld 14y ago
      Of note, I meant segmented sleep[1] as per the wikipedia definition, which though polyphasic (biphasic) isn't really trying to cut on time but just allow our bodies to reset to more natural patterns. The pill I'm taking as a kid has wheels on her bike till she can ride without. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segmented_sleep http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segmented_sleep
reasonattlm 14y ago
Arguing anything other than differences in levels of exercise/activity and calorie intake has a large mountain of evidence to overcome. The effects of those two are very large, the effects of everything else comparatively small per decades of animal and longitudinal human studies. Nonsense about antioxidants in the diet is exactly that: nonsense. The weight of evidence suggests that, if anything, ingested antioxidants have a net negative effect on long term health. But there's money to be made keeping up the lie: http://www.fightaging.org/archives/2012/03/attempting-to-address-the-popular-myth-of-antioxidants.php http://www.fightaging.org/archives/2012/03/attempting-to-add... Lastly, beware of pseudo-pop-science that opens with one person's story. People manage to survive cancer without treatment all over the world; one story is not remarkable and tells us nothing. In general the whole blue zones thing has little to no value in any serious consideration of health and longevity: it's about on the same level of credibility as diet fads.
- kolinko 14y ago
  Not to mention the fact, that the man could've been simply misdiagnosed. It was 60s after all...
  - GiraffeNecktie 14y ago
    It's possible but not so likely, the 60s was not the Middle Ages. In any case, he was clearly very sick when he returned to the island and eventually felt better, became strong and lived into his 90's. Not that that proves anything in itself. It's just a journalistic device to illustrate the point of the story which is that people on this island do live a remarkably long time and that it's worth asking why this is so.
    - mistercow 14y ago
      >It's possible but not so likely There are a lot of people, so it's pretty likely that a handful will be misdiagnosed with terminal illnesses, but never find out they were misdiagnosed. Those handful are the ones you'll hear about. After all, you aren't going to read the amazing story of the guy who was given nine months to live, and then died nine months later.
CWuestefeld 14y ago
I hate this kind of reporting. I read through the entire first page without the slightest clue as to what the article is actually about -- I'm pretty sure it's not all just for one guy's life story. But by that point I was tired of reading, and quit. Cut it out with the pathos and human interest, and get some of the real point in there quicker.
- skyebook 14y ago
  This sort of thinking is actually a large part of the piece.. I'd highly recommend giving it an honest and unaffected read, it's thought-provoking stuff
  - CWuestefeld 14y ago
    It's not that I'm mister "New-York-City always pushing to not waste a minute". My complaint is primarily that the structure pretends to be human-centered, in fact it's nothing but a formula. Modern news reporting dictates that the journalist kick off with something personally identifiable, and only then ease into the facts. The reasons for this are obvious, I think: readers are more likely to connect with, and thus read, a story that they find strikes a chord with them personally; so let's try to cast about with some pathos, and maybe we'll hit some notes in that chord. But just as with seeing reported gore or pr0n on reddit, repetition of the same formula over time loses its valence with the reader. I'm tired of that formula in article after article. I want the journalists to find new ways to accomplish it. It's not this article specifically; this is just one example. It struck me at this time, though, because it's pretty long, and I got through a pretty good chunk of it without a single direct reference to the article's thesis, so it was quite egregious.
- nvarsj 14y ago
  I guess you're the Samos type.
- shasta 14y ago
  I completely agree. If I follow an interesting link, read an interesting opening paragraph or two, and then hit a paragraph that completely changes the subject with something like "Paul Steve, a little hobbit of a man, sits before me sipping a glass of warm tea as he gazes out across the morning Texas plains", then I scroll way down to verify the page 1/10 before getting the hell out of Dodge.
dschiptsov 14y ago
It is not that much about diet, it is about having less stress and worries of all kinds, and have good habits, such as mixing periods of physical activity and with total rest (taking naps). It is not like staying all the time in a passive stress (or depression) - having a high level of stress hormones without any physical activities. And the last but not least, there are emotion contagiousness - one can see it a subway. "Toxic people" is very real thing. Then comes the media with its pressure about sex (which is about youth and health) and wealth (which is a weak substitute for the two former), and these material pseudo-achievements that one must accomplish. All these factors together, plus many more - such as drinking water, air, soil in which vegetables and grapes grown, contributes to longevity, of course. But it seems like there is no one which makes it all - no shortcut, no way to buy it. I believe it is much more about the state of the mind, which influence everything, including inner bodily processes and rhythms. Mind is first, environment is second, adversaries is third. ''Hell is other people'', you know.)
- stephengillie 14y ago
  The real magic to this island is the Zen its residents practice without trying.
OldSchool 14y ago
That the guy survived lung cancer seems more likely a misdiagnosis or rare spontaneous remission than some kind of cause-effect. My vote however does go for: stress level, diet, and enough physical activity. Genetics too but you can't control that.
- mmagin 14y ago
  It's not entirely clear how rare it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_remission#Frequency_of_spontaneous_regression_in_cancer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_remission#Frequency...
ozgune 14y ago
I wonder if this article has some sort of selection bias. After all, communities that have the lowest and highest rates of cancer in the US are small towns of <100 people. It's easy to find several small towns in the US where people have unusually high longevity. After all, you have many to choose from. What's more curious is to make a hypothesis around diet and exercise, and then show causality across all similar islands in Greece.
- wisty 14y ago
  There's also crazily high variation in rare events, like living past 100 or surviving "incurable" cancer. But those are the things which people are interested in.
viggity 14y ago
would anybody like to give a TL;DR synopsis?
- ajays 14y ago
  Eat less meat. Exercise. Take plenty of naps. And have lots of social interaction.
- e03179 14y ago
  The Standard American Diet causes illness and disease.
- fghh45sdfhr3 14y ago
  1. Random anecdote. 2. Lots of exercise and healthy food and many friends even for very old people, on average results in a long life. 3. Joke about the guy from the anecdote, apparently all his American doctors died, while he is in his 90s on his little Greek island.
- goblin89 14y ago
  If we assume the article is true, people for whom it would have most utility would be least likely to have patience to read it.
  - StacyC 14y ago
    Precisely. What is the hurry with everyone? We’re all gonna die. Let’s be cool to each other and try to enjoy the ride. Oh, time for my nap!
- Florin_Andrei 14y ago
  > would anybody like to give a TL;DR synopsis? It says: The TLDR lifestyle kills you.
- zik 14y ago
  Everyone seems to be trying to get the quick answer to longevity from this article. The message I took home is that there _is_ no quick answer. No-one really knows why these people live longer. What they do know is that they lead a completely different kind of lifestyle from us. The whole community is relaxed and randomly happen to have a diet and exercise patterns which may contribute to longevity. Unfortunately it seems that while we're living busy and stressful lifestyles this kind of longevity is out of reach for us.
JoeAltmaier 14y ago
The easiest way to live past 100? Use your father's birth certificate.
- nealabq 14y ago
  Guess I'm a cynic because that occurred to me too. It's easy to imagine. You've got six months to live. You move to a place where you won't run into people you know. You reconnect with relatives and childhood friends. You realize you could transfer your identity to a brother or friend and hand off your pension/social-security. Or avoid inheritance tax. Your wife and parents agree. You die and are buried overlooking the blue Mediterranean. There's a small ceremony. The sun is shining. Life goes on.
skittles 14y ago
Stories like this are a little dangerous when taken at face value. Americans sometimes get diagnosed with cancer and then have spontaneous remission too. We don't know anything concrete about this guy's case. It's also not a good idea to say that a Mediterranean diet is ideal for anyone that doesn't have a Mediterranean ancestry. Greeks have been eating the same sorts of foods for a long time and are most likely more adapted to them than I would be. My hypothesis is that any society that doesn't drink sugary drinks, eats enough fat (olive oil, goat cheese in this case), doesn't often overeat, and gets plenty of exercise should have a healthy population.
binxbolling 14y ago
TIL that even if you study longevity for 10+ years, you're never allowed to share anecdotes (or god forbid, close with a joke) ever again unless you're prepared to be crucified by twentysomething pseudo-experts in Silicon Valley.
- relix 14y ago
  TIL if you're a twentysomething you're not allowed to have critical opinions. It goes both ways.
  - njharman 14y ago
    Qualitative difference between expert with years of experience and twentysomethings lacking any experience justifies it not working both ways.
    - relix 14y ago
      Are you seriously suggesting that as long as anyone has been working on something for years, that we should accept what he says without looking at it in a critical way? The enlightenment must have passed you by.
      - potatolicious 14y ago
        No, what he's saying is that if you're inexperienced and completely uninvolved in a field, you should think critically about what an experienced insider has to say, and reconsider snarky flippant dismissals. One thing that annoys me about software culture in general is how, by virtue of being a programmer, people are also political scientists, economists, biologists, chemists, astronomers, manufacturing experts, doctors, nutritionists, sociologists, anthropologists, and the grand poobah of dismissing speech because of the way it's phrased.
        hntester123 14y ago
        >One thing that annoys me about software culture in general is how, by virtue of being a programmer, people are also political scientists, economists, biologists, chemists, astronomers, manufacturing experts, doctors, nutritionists, sociologists, anthropologists, and the grand poobah of dismissing speech because of the way it's phrased. +N.
bonzon 14y ago
In addition to what the article says, this particular island sure has a very healthy way of living overall, not necessarily in the medical sense. Shops and offices open at noon, and people generally wake up late. They do stay up late at night. In general, they don't follow a particular timetable, they go as they feel. They are mostly joyous and celebrating, with what we would call a "cafe culture" (only the are as likely to party with hard grappa-like liquors). Their culture as relates to time is something that's unlike even nearby islands. This "on demand" thing? They are not for it. Living in a wonderful land surrounded by wonderful, swimmable sea, doesn't hurt either.
padobson 14y ago
If nothing else, the article made me want to eat some Mediterranean food.
mapster 14y ago
I heard tell or a similar tale in he Med. where he natural hot springs were a trace radioactive. It was thus hypothesized that this small, consistent dose was partially responsible for the almost zero rate of cancer on the island.
- wtracy 14y ago
  It might be BS, it might not be: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis
enraged_camel 14y ago
This reminds me of something I've noticed lately. I spend every Saturday afternoon, and most Sunday afternoons, taking 2-3 hour naps. They are great for decompressing and relaxing. I actually enjoy them a lot more than the normal sleeps I get at night. There's something very satisfying about waking up and finding out that it's still the same day! On a related note, most of my friends who complain about being "stressed out" never spend their weekends actually relaxing. Instead, they rush from one activity/event to another, drive from location to location. Then when the weekend is over they say in dismay, "I can't believe it's Monday already." My guess is that if they spent their weekend being laid back, the weekend would feel a lot longer and they would be re-energized before the next week starts.
physcab 14y ago
I cringed when reading the HN comments to this article. Seriously folks, this article isn't about how to get to the fountain of youth. It's also not about quick fixes, so unfortunately if you want to get to the good stuff, you're actually going to have to read the entire 7 pages. Trust me, if you have an open mind, its worth the read. It's enlightening for me to read accounts about how others live their lives and derive happiness from simple pleasures. Breathing fresh air, enjoying the company of others, eating food that you've grown. This is such a stark contrast to the lifestyle I have lived for the past 28 years. I've worked at software companies for the past 5 years and have spent most of my waking life in front of a computer screen. Even though I am happy, I do admit that I wonder if life is supposed to be more than this. And here we have incredible proof of someone who had broken out of their Comfort Zone, possibly had to give up many of their "luxuries", and changed their life completely. The point of this story isn't that this man beat cancer and lived to be a centenarian, its that by changing his life he dramatically improved his happiness and began to take advantage of all the things we take for granted.
- viviantan 14y ago
  I read the article per physcab’s suggestion (and because I was curious why a story about Greek centenarians could generate so much lively discussion on HN). Good read indeed, thanks! I think it's easy to be dismissive when the topic of discussion has little to do with our own lifestyles, at least not on the surface. Old people on Greek isles and fountains of youth are light-years away from stuff that concerns your typically young and techie HN reader. (I'm generalizing, you guys can attack me if you must.) So it would seem that the only intelligent commentary one can make on such a subject is to question the author's scientific approach and to take apart his analysis -- how else could a 20-something programmer/entrepreneur partake in this discussion, right? But dig a little deeper and you'll find some interesting parallels that maybe most HN readers can relate to and think about. A couple of things that the author and his interviewees said jumped out at me: (1) developing an ecosystem that fosters healthful and satisfactory lifestyles, and (2) adapting work schedules so you can work into the night even when you don’t feel productive during the day. Doesn’t that sound familiar? A bit like startup culture? Ok, nobody wants their employees hanging out and milking goats all day (unless that’s your industry) and Silicon Valley will never be as stress-free and laidback as Ikaria (I doubt we would want it to be) but the article does inspire some ideas about what makes people tick and what makes people happy -- and those people could be your employees and your users.
sbierwagen 14y ago
Another health factor at work might be the unprocessed nature of the food they consume: as Trichopoulou observed, because islanders eat greens from their gardens and fields, they consume fewer pesticides and more nutrients. She estimated that the Ikarian diet, compared with the standard American diet, might yield up to four additional years of life expectancy. Oh boy, 4 years. Eureka. You've done it. You've found the secret to eternal life. She also pointed out a preliminary study of Ikarian men between 65 and 100 that included the fact that 80 percent of them claimed to have sex regularly, and a quarter of that self-reported group said they were doing so with “good duration” and “achievement.” If you had asked me the same question in middle school, I would have said that I was having all sorts of sex too. Although unemployment is high — perhaps as high as 40 percent — most everyone has access to a family garden and livestock, Parikos told me. People who work might have several jobs. Someone involved in tourism, for example, might also be a painter or an electrician or have a store. This is a common pattern in the very poor. When you don't have any savings, you can't afford any interruptions in your income stream. Consequently, they're forced to be jacks of all trade, master of none. This makes it impossible to specialize in any one field, and lack of income means they can't make any capital investments. "When everyone knows everyone else’s business, you get a feeling of connection and security. The lack of privacy is actually good, because it puts a check on people who don’t want to be caught or who do something to embarrass their family." I'd hate to be homosexual here, or be a member of any kind of minority group. Anyway, the effect is almost certainly due to a "small study effect" sampling bias. In a tiny population (one island) a handful of exceptions (164 people over 90) massively affects the average lifespan. There's no randomization or blinding at all: observational studies like these are exquisitely sensitive to methodology errors, especially when examining small effects.
- rubashov 14y ago
  I wish someone like Bill Gates would stop doing sisyphean third world do-gooder junk and fund some long term, large controlled studies on humans instead. It seems to me that to do actual science on human health you need space program like money. So instead we get all this observational garbage.
antman 14y ago
Disclaimer: Greek islander. Their diet is not that different from many other Greek islands. What I find different is the total lack of stress. It's not that people wake up late. It's that they are worry free. You go to a cafeteria sit and wait and noboby comes. You get up go inside and ask for a coffee and they show you the coffee pot. Or they smile and tell you that you are free to make it yourself. They will probably not move a finger. Then you leave the money on the table and leave. When the article says they wake up late, there are no shops in the morning. They are open when the owner feels like it, and the system works quite well since everybody else knows it... Doors in villages are unlocked. Funerals and marriages of the locals are a special occasion but people don't dress up that much. Everything is serene and simple. Comming from Athens this is very very frustrating at the beggining but I grew to like it. The place is very different from anything else I have seen.
superasn 14y ago
The point that interested me most was how instead of a quick fix or a band-aid approach the whole being healthy is interwoven in their lifestyle. They don't exercise to reduce a few kilos, rather it is impossible for them to not exercise because there isn't any other way of getting around. Same with food, they're not trying to eat healthy like us but the food they know to cook is just healthy.. it's not as a quick-fix to reduce weight. This point is interesting to me because I was recently reading a book called 8 Weeks To Optimum Health and the author (Andrew Weil i think) mentions that it is good to add a little turmeric to your diet. Now having been lived in India all my life, we all have been eating turmeric all our lives without ever giving much thought to it. It's not something we do to remain healthy, but rather something without which you can't food here. I don't remember not eating it for the last 30 years. Unfortunately, we counter-balance it with fried samosas, etc but still the point to take is when a society as a whole develops good habits it often becomes way too easy for everyone to follow through without missing a day of that (for decades).
nspattak 14y ago
I come from a near by island and I had heard some of the facts about people in Ikaria before reading this article (eg that they do not wake up ealy) as well as some more that I did not see mentioned in the article (eg I have been told that they do not lock their stores, they just leave them open in case anyone needs something). I would really*very much AND strongly like to give a hint to all those who are skeptical about this article that they should consider that a vastly different way of their life can very well exist. You do not HAVE to be a well educated smart hard working entrepreneur to exist on earth. People existed well before that and will do for some more time (if our "civilized" "modern" world does not succeed in destroying our planet. I would also like to point out that the western world (especially the "civilized" world) has actually failed in the FUNDAMENTAL HUMAN NEEDS, ie food and sleep. Having lived in a place where organic food was the only food I am sick and tired of seeing people eating "healthy" food which in fact is nothing more than a company's new product.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
julnepht 14y ago
While reading the story of this man that cures his cancer without resorting to modern medecine is endearing. I cannot stop thinking about Steve Jobs that tried to cure himself of cancer without modern medicine and of the fatal consequences of his actions.

332 points by adam 14y ago

Single page, for those who prefer. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/28/magazine/the-island-where-people-forget-to-die.html?hp&_r=0&pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/28/magazine/the-island-where-...

csl 14y ago

Dan Buettner also held a presentation at TED in 2009 called "How to live to be 100+": http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_buettner_how_to_live_to_be_100.html http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_buettner_how_to_live_to_be_100....

goldfeld 14y ago

Really interesting to see this here on my first morning after beginning my segmented sleep experiment. I took a quarter pill of melatonin yesterday around 6pm and slept from 6:30 till 8:30, then quickly fell asleep again till 11:30. I then failed to fall asleep at 2:30am after a wonderful mellow productive night programming session, and had to skip the second sleep. During the morning I found, completely by chance, some articles on a fasting diet from the mark's daily apple blog. And I had been without eating since first falling asleep (and still am), so I eagerly gobbled it up as validation on all those breakfasts I have skipped. And finally I talked with my roomate about living long as related to these little body hacking experiments.

bagosm 14y ago
Stop worrying so much about it if you don't want to age fast
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
arbuge 14y ago
Segmented sleep? Melatonin? Maybe it's just my Mediterranean upbringing talking but I think I'll stick with healthy food, good wine, 8 hours sleep, and surrounding myself with people I like.
- sukuriant 14y ago
  Nontraditional sleep patterns are a common fad here at HN; though you've been around to probably see one or two of those and are probably trolling to catch people like me, so ... I'll just shut up now.
  - arbuge 14y ago
    Eh? That comment looked like a troll?
    - sukuriant 14y ago
      Not entirely. You sounded like someone that is very happy with their current lifestyle, and even proud of it. This is good. However, given how long you've had an account here, I guessed that you had probably seen the "how to live off >4 hours of sleep a day" articles, and were familiar with that perplexing (to me) style of living.
  - goldfeld 14y ago
    Of note, I meant segmented sleep[1] as per the wikipedia definition, which though polyphasic (biphasic) isn't really trying to cut on time but just allow our bodies to reset to more natural patterns. The pill I'm taking as a kid has wheels on her bike till she can ride without. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segmented_sleep http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segmented_sleep

reasonattlm 14y ago

Arguing anything other than differences in levels of exercise/activity and calorie intake has a large mountain of evidence to overcome. The effects of those two are very large, the effects of everything else comparatively small per decades of animal and longitudinal human studies. Nonsense about antioxidants in the diet is exactly that: nonsense. The weight of evidence suggests that, if anything, ingested antioxidants have a net negative effect on long term health. But there's money to be made keeping up the lie: http://www.fightaging.org/archives/2012/03/attempting-to-address-the-popular-myth-of-antioxidants.php http://www.fightaging.org/archives/2012/03/attempting-to-add... Lastly, beware of pseudo-pop-science that opens with one person's story. People manage to survive cancer without treatment all over the world; one story is not remarkable and tells us nothing. In general the whole blue zones thing has little to no value in any serious consideration of health and longevity: it's about on the same level of credibility as diet fads.

kolinko 14y ago
Not to mention the fact, that the man could've been simply misdiagnosed. It was 60s after all...
- GiraffeNecktie 14y ago
  It's possible but not so likely, the 60s was not the Middle Ages. In any case, he was clearly very sick when he returned to the island and eventually felt better, became strong and lived into his 90's. Not that that proves anything in itself. It's just a journalistic device to illustrate the point of the story which is that people on this island do live a remarkably long time and that it's worth asking why this is so.
  - mistercow 14y ago
    >It's possible but not so likely There are a lot of people, so it's pretty likely that a handful will be misdiagnosed with terminal illnesses, but never find out they were misdiagnosed. Those handful are the ones you'll hear about. After all, you aren't going to read the amazing story of the guy who was given nine months to live, and then died nine months later.

CWuestefeld 14y ago

I hate this kind of reporting. I read through the entire first page without the slightest clue as to what the article is actually about -- I'm pretty sure it's not all just for one guy's life story. But by that point I was tired of reading, and quit. Cut it out with the pathos and human interest, and get some of the real point in there quicker.

skyebook 14y ago
This sort of thinking is actually a large part of the piece.. I'd highly recommend giving it an honest and unaffected read, it's thought-provoking stuff
- CWuestefeld 14y ago
  It's not that I'm mister "New-York-City always pushing to not waste a minute". My complaint is primarily that the structure pretends to be human-centered, in fact it's nothing but a formula. Modern news reporting dictates that the journalist kick off with something personally identifiable, and only then ease into the facts. The reasons for this are obvious, I think: readers are more likely to connect with, and thus read, a story that they find strikes a chord with them personally; so let's try to cast about with some pathos, and maybe we'll hit some notes in that chord. But just as with seeing reported gore or pr0n on reddit, repetition of the same formula over time loses its valence with the reader. I'm tired of that formula in article after article. I want the journalists to find new ways to accomplish it. It's not this article specifically; this is just one example. It struck me at this time, though, because it's pretty long, and I got through a pretty good chunk of it without a single direct reference to the article's thesis, so it was quite egregious.
nvarsj 14y ago
I guess you're the Samos type.
shasta 14y ago
I completely agree. If I follow an interesting link, read an interesting opening paragraph or two, and then hit a paragraph that completely changes the subject with something like "Paul Steve, a little hobbit of a man, sits before me sipping a glass of warm tea as he gazes out across the morning Texas plains", then I scroll way down to verify the page 1/10 before getting the hell out of Dodge.

dschiptsov 14y ago

It is not that much about diet, it is about having less stress and worries of all kinds, and have good habits, such as mixing periods of physical activity and with total rest (taking naps). It is not like staying all the time in a passive stress (or depression) - having a high level of stress hormones without any physical activities. And the last but not least, there are emotion contagiousness - one can see it a subway. "Toxic people" is very real thing. Then comes the media with its pressure about sex (which is about youth and health) and wealth (which is a weak substitute for the two former), and these material pseudo-achievements that one must accomplish. All these factors together, plus many more - such as drinking water, air, soil in which vegetables and grapes grown, contributes to longevity, of course. But it seems like there is no one which makes it all - no shortcut, no way to buy it. I believe it is much more about the state of the mind, which influence everything, including inner bodily processes and rhythms. Mind is first, environment is second, adversaries is third. ''Hell is other people'', you know.)

stephengillie 14y ago
The real magic to this island is the Zen its residents practice without trying.

OldSchool 14y ago

That the guy survived lung cancer seems more likely a misdiagnosis or rare spontaneous remission than some kind of cause-effect. My vote however does go for: stress level, diet, and enough physical activity. Genetics too but you can't control that.

mmagin 14y ago
It's not entirely clear how rare it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_remission#Frequency_of_spontaneous_regression_in_cancer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_remission#Frequency...

ozgune 14y ago

I wonder if this article has some sort of selection bias. After all, communities that have the lowest and highest rates of cancer in the US are small towns of <100 people. It's easy to find several small towns in the US where people have unusually high longevity. After all, you have many to choose from. What's more curious is to make a hypothesis around diet and exercise, and then show causality across all similar islands in Greece.

wisty 14y ago
There's also crazily high variation in rare events, like living past 100 or surviving "incurable" cancer. But those are the things which people are interested in.

viggity 14y ago

would anybody like to give a TL;DR synopsis?

ajays 14y ago
Eat less meat. Exercise. Take plenty of naps. And have lots of social interaction.
e03179 14y ago
The Standard American Diet causes illness and disease.
fghh45sdfhr3 14y ago
1. Random anecdote. 2. Lots of exercise and healthy food and many friends even for very old people, on average results in a long life. 3. Joke about the guy from the anecdote, apparently all his American doctors died, while he is in his 90s on his little Greek island.
goblin89 14y ago
If we assume the article is true, people for whom it would have most utility would be least likely to have patience to read it.
- StacyC 14y ago
  Precisely. What is the hurry with everyone? We’re all gonna die. Let’s be cool to each other and try to enjoy the ride. Oh, time for my nap!
Florin_Andrei 14y ago
> would anybody like to give a TL;DR synopsis? It says: The TLDR lifestyle kills you.
zik 14y ago
Everyone seems to be trying to get the quick answer to longevity from this article. The message I took home is that there _is_ no quick answer. No-one really knows why these people live longer. What they do know is that they lead a completely different kind of lifestyle from us. The whole community is relaxed and randomly happen to have a diet and exercise patterns which may contribute to longevity. Unfortunately it seems that while we're living busy and stressful lifestyles this kind of longevity is out of reach for us.

JoeAltmaier 14y ago

The easiest way to live past 100? Use your father's birth certificate.

nealabq 14y ago
Guess I'm a cynic because that occurred to me too. It's easy to imagine. You've got six months to live. You move to a place where you won't run into people you know. You reconnect with relatives and childhood friends. You realize you could transfer your identity to a brother or friend and hand off your pension/social-security. Or avoid inheritance tax. Your wife and parents agree. You die and are buried overlooking the blue Mediterranean. There's a small ceremony. The sun is shining. Life goes on.

skittles 14y ago

Stories like this are a little dangerous when taken at face value. Americans sometimes get diagnosed with cancer and then have spontaneous remission too. We don't know anything concrete about this guy's case. It's also not a good idea to say that a Mediterranean diet is ideal for anyone that doesn't have a Mediterranean ancestry. Greeks have been eating the same sorts of foods for a long time and are most likely more adapted to them than I would be. My hypothesis is that any society that doesn't drink sugary drinks, eats enough fat (olive oil, goat cheese in this case), doesn't often overeat, and gets plenty of exercise should have a healthy population.

binxbolling 14y ago

TIL that even if you study longevity for 10+ years, you're never allowed to share anecdotes (or god forbid, close with a joke) ever again unless you're prepared to be crucified by twentysomething pseudo-experts in Silicon Valley.

relix 14y ago
TIL if you're a twentysomething you're not allowed to have critical opinions. It goes both ways.
- njharman 14y ago
  Qualitative difference between expert with years of experience and twentysomethings lacking any experience justifies it not working both ways.
  - relix 14y ago
    Are you seriously suggesting that as long as anyone has been working on something for years, that we should accept what he says without looking at it in a critical way? The enlightenment must have passed you by.
    - potatolicious 14y ago
      No, what he's saying is that if you're inexperienced and completely uninvolved in a field, you should think critically about what an experienced insider has to say, and reconsider snarky flippant dismissals. One thing that annoys me about software culture in general is how, by virtue of being a programmer, people are also political scientists, economists, biologists, chemists, astronomers, manufacturing experts, doctors, nutritionists, sociologists, anthropologists, and the grand poobah of dismissing speech because of the way it's phrased.
      - hntester123 14y ago
        >One thing that annoys me about software culture in general is how, by virtue of being a programmer, people are also political scientists, economists, biologists, chemists, astronomers, manufacturing experts, doctors, nutritionists, sociologists, anthropologists, and the grand poobah of dismissing speech because of the way it's phrased. +N.

bonzon 14y ago

In addition to what the article says, this particular island sure has a very healthy way of living overall, not necessarily in the medical sense. Shops and offices open at noon, and people generally wake up late. They do stay up late at night. In general, they don't follow a particular timetable, they go as they feel. They are mostly joyous and celebrating, with what we would call a "cafe culture" (only the are as likely to party with hard grappa-like liquors). Their culture as relates to time is something that's unlike even nearby islands. This "on demand" thing? They are not for it. Living in a wonderful land surrounded by wonderful, swimmable sea, doesn't hurt either.

padobson 14y ago

If nothing else, the article made me want to eat some Mediterranean food.

mapster 14y ago

I heard tell or a similar tale in he Med. where he natural hot springs were a trace radioactive. It was thus hypothesized that this small, consistent dose was partially responsible for the almost zero rate of cancer on the island.

wtracy 14y ago
It might be BS, it might not be: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis

enraged_camel 14y ago

This reminds me of something I've noticed lately. I spend every Saturday afternoon, and most Sunday afternoons, taking 2-3 hour naps. They are great for decompressing and relaxing. I actually enjoy them a lot more than the normal sleeps I get at night. There's something very satisfying about waking up and finding out that it's still the same day! On a related note, most of my friends who complain about being "stressed out" never spend their weekends actually relaxing. Instead, they rush from one activity/event to another, drive from location to location. Then when the weekend is over they say in dismay, "I can't believe it's Monday already." My guess is that if they spent their weekend being laid back, the weekend would feel a lot longer and they would be re-energized before the next week starts.

physcab 14y ago

I cringed when reading the HN comments to this article. Seriously folks, this article isn't about how to get to the fountain of youth. It's also not about quick fixes, so unfortunately if you want to get to the good stuff, you're actually going to have to read the entire 7 pages. Trust me, if you have an open mind, its worth the read. It's enlightening for me to read accounts about how others live their lives and derive happiness from simple pleasures. Breathing fresh air, enjoying the company of others, eating food that you've grown. This is such a stark contrast to the lifestyle I have lived for the past 28 years. I've worked at software companies for the past 5 years and have spent most of my waking life in front of a computer screen. Even though I am happy, I do admit that I wonder if life is supposed to be more than this. And here we have incredible proof of someone who had broken out of their Comfort Zone, possibly had to give up many of their "luxuries", and changed their life completely. The point of this story isn't that this man beat cancer and lived to be a centenarian, its that by changing his life he dramatically improved his happiness and began to take advantage of all the things we take for granted.

viviantan 14y ago
I read the article per physcab’s suggestion (and because I was curious why a story about Greek centenarians could generate so much lively discussion on HN). Good read indeed, thanks! I think it's easy to be dismissive when the topic of discussion has little to do with our own lifestyles, at least not on the surface. Old people on Greek isles and fountains of youth are light-years away from stuff that concerns your typically young and techie HN reader. (I'm generalizing, you guys can attack me if you must.) So it would seem that the only intelligent commentary one can make on such a subject is to question the author's scientific approach and to take apart his analysis -- how else could a 20-something programmer/entrepreneur partake in this discussion, right? But dig a little deeper and you'll find some interesting parallels that maybe most HN readers can relate to and think about. A couple of things that the author and his interviewees said jumped out at me: (1) developing an ecosystem that fosters healthful and satisfactory lifestyles, and (2) adapting work schedules so you can work into the night even when you don’t feel productive during the day. Doesn’t that sound familiar? A bit like startup culture? Ok, nobody wants their employees hanging out and milking goats all day (unless that’s your industry) and Silicon Valley will never be as stress-free and laidback as Ikaria (I doubt we would want it to be) but the article does inspire some ideas about what makes people tick and what makes people happy -- and those people could be your employees and your users.

sbierwagen 14y ago

Another health factor at work might be the unprocessed nature of the food they consume: as Trichopoulou observed, because islanders eat greens from their gardens and fields, they consume fewer pesticides and more nutrients. She estimated that the Ikarian diet, compared with the standard American diet, might yield up to four additional years of life expectancy. Oh boy, 4 years. Eureka. You've done it. You've found the secret to eternal life. She also pointed out a preliminary study of Ikarian men between 65 and 100 that included the fact that 80 percent of them claimed to have sex regularly, and a quarter of that self-reported group said they were doing so with “good duration” and “achievement.” If you had asked me the same question in middle school, I would have said that I was having all sorts of sex too. Although unemployment is high — perhaps as high as 40 percent — most everyone has access to a family garden and livestock, Parikos told me. People who work might have several jobs. Someone involved in tourism, for example, might also be a painter or an electrician or have a store. This is a common pattern in the very poor. When you don't have any savings, you can't afford any interruptions in your income stream. Consequently, they're forced to be jacks of all trade, master of none. This makes it impossible to specialize in any one field, and lack of income means they can't make any capital investments. "When everyone knows everyone else’s business, you get a feeling of connection and security. The lack of privacy is actually good, because it puts a check on people who don’t want to be caught or who do something to embarrass their family." I'd hate to be homosexual here, or be a member of any kind of minority group. Anyway, the effect is almost certainly due to a "small study effect" sampling bias. In a tiny population (one island) a handful of exceptions (164 people over 90) massively affects the average lifespan. There's no randomization or blinding at all: observational studies like these are exquisitely sensitive to methodology errors, especially when examining small effects.

rubashov 14y ago
I wish someone like Bill Gates would stop doing sisyphean third world do-gooder junk and fund some long term, large controlled studies on humans instead. It seems to me that to do actual science on human health you need space program like money. So instead we get all this observational garbage.

antman 14y ago

Disclaimer: Greek islander. Their diet is not that different from many other Greek islands. What I find different is the total lack of stress. It's not that people wake up late. It's that they are worry free. You go to a cafeteria sit and wait and noboby comes. You get up go inside and ask for a coffee and they show you the coffee pot. Or they smile and tell you that you are free to make it yourself. They will probably not move a finger. Then you leave the money on the table and leave. When the article says they wake up late, there are no shops in the morning. They are open when the owner feels like it, and the system works quite well since everybody else knows it... Doors in villages are unlocked. Funerals and marriages of the locals are a special occasion but people don't dress up that much. Everything is serene and simple. Comming from Athens this is very very frustrating at the beggining but I grew to like it. The place is very different from anything else I have seen.

superasn 14y ago

The point that interested me most was how instead of a quick fix or a band-aid approach the whole being healthy is interwoven in their lifestyle. They don't exercise to reduce a few kilos, rather it is impossible for them to not exercise because there isn't any other way of getting around. Same with food, they're not trying to eat healthy like us but the food they know to cook is just healthy.. it's not as a quick-fix to reduce weight. This point is interesting to me because I was recently reading a book called 8 Weeks To Optimum Health and the author (Andrew Weil i think) mentions that it is good to add a little turmeric to your diet. Now having been lived in India all my life, we all have been eating turmeric all our lives without ever giving much thought to it. It's not something we do to remain healthy, but rather something without which you can't food here. I don't remember not eating it for the last 30 years. Unfortunately, we counter-balance it with fried samosas, etc but still the point to take is when a society as a whole develops good habits it often becomes way too easy for everyone to follow through without missing a day of that (for decades).

nspattak 14y ago

I come from a near by island and I had heard some of the facts about people in Ikaria before reading this article (eg that they do not wake up ealy) as well as some more that I did not see mentioned in the article (eg I have been told that they do not lock their stores, they just leave them open in case anyone needs something). I would really*very much AND strongly like to give a hint to all those who are skeptical about this article that they should consider that a vastly different way of their life can very well exist. You do not HAVE to be a well educated smart hard working entrepreneur to exist on earth. People existed well before that and will do for some more time (if our "civilized" "modern" world does not succeed in destroying our planet. I would also like to point out that the western world (especially the "civilized" world) has actually failed in the FUNDAMENTAL HUMAN NEEDS, ie food and sleep. Having lived in a place where organic food was the only food I am sick and tired of seeing people eating "healthy" food which in fact is nothing more than a company's new product.

deleted 14y ago

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julnepht 14y ago

While reading the story of this man that cures his cancer without resorting to modern medecine is endearing. I cannot stop thinking about Steve Jobs that tried to cure himself of cancer without modern medicine and of the fatal consequences of his actions.