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Older people in the UK already have free bus passes and various other substantial concessions regarding public transport. Cars are dangerous, and if you can't s

Older people in the UK already have free bus passes and various other substantial concessions regarding public transport. Cars are dangerous, and if you can't see clearly, you're obviously not fit to drive. It's true that there will be negative impacts on people who will fail the eye tests, and we should be compassionate, but ultimately those people aren't safe behind the wheel, and put other peoples lives at risk, not just their own. The practical details of implementing this are important - is the eye test done at an ordinary optician/optometrist's shop? How are the results going to be submitted to DVLA, etc.? What protections will be in place to prevent people from shopping around for a dodgy optician (as people often do with cars and MOTs)? I think this is a reasonable and practical step in the right direction. I accept that given the shortage of driving examiners it would be impossible to require re-testing of existing drivers in the foreseeable future, but as the article says, people already get eye tests frequently and often for free, so this is something that can be done without too much additional infrastructure. A personal anecdote: my grandfather is in his 90s and is not at all fit to drive due to cataracts and various other issues, but he still does "short journeys" because it's convenient and he feels that it's necessary. The UK has plenty of public transport options and places where people can live with amenities close by (though this is not at all universal). Most British towns and cities are very different from their US counterparts in this respect. My grandfather moved house relatively recently --in full knowledge that the house he chose would benefit from car ownership, and in full knowledge about his age. The only thing that will stop him and others like him from putting people in danger is taking away his licence. He has been told by doctors, opticians and family members that he's not safe to drive, but in the absence of any enforcement he persists. I hope that this policy comes in before he or someone else gets hurt.

graemep 8mo ago
> Older people in the UK already have free bus passes and various other substantial concessions regarding public transport. Which is fine if you live somewhere where there is public transport.
- tonyedgecombe 8mo ago
  You have to be pretty remote to have no public transport in the UK.
  - gib444 8mo ago
    And not very remote at all for it to be practically non existent and unreliable Every passing year non-city/big town buses get cut and cut and cut because councils are bankrupt
  - graemep 8mo ago
    To have none at all, yes, it would have to be very remote. To have very limited public transport, then lots of places outside big cities. I just dropped by daughter off at a friend's house. 4 minutes by car, 40 minutes by bus. Busses here are infrequent and unreliable. You need to take a bus to get to a train if you are going a longer distance. This is in a town with a population of about 20 thousand in Cheshire.
    - chmod775 8mo ago
      > I just dropped by daughter off at a friend's house. 4 minutes by car In most urban areas that equates to about 20 minutes on foot. Why bother to even get into a car/bus for that? Edit: I checked your weather. Definitely wouldn't want to wait at a bus stop.
      - tialaramex 8mo ago
        Car drivers are always like this, everywhere. Even when I was a little kid, last century, it's a village school, every pupil lives in the same mile or so radius and yet loads of them get picked up in a car. I now live in a big city but when I walk to the office it's just before school starts, so I see that yeah at first I'm passing kids happily walking with parents but just outside the school it's a jam of idiots who "just quickly" are here to drop the child from a car. The contrast in a few weeks when school is closed will be dramatic, that street is dead, but I bet every one of those parents thinks of it as a "busy road, they ought to do something about that" while not remembering that it's busy because of them.
andyjohnson0 8mo ago
You can anonymously report your concerns to the DVLA at [1]. Select "driver's medical". I had to do this with an elderly family member who refused to stop driving despite being manifestly physically and cognitively incapable. Its a difficult call but you may be saving someone's life. [1] https://contact.dvla.gov.uk/driver/capture-transaction-type https://contact.dvla.gov.uk/driver/capture-transaction-type
- noodlesUK 8mo ago
  Thank you for this. I was mistakenly under the impression that it was not possible to raise these concerns with DVLA anonymously. Do you know what the process that follows this looks like? Are they just asked to self-certify again? Are they told that someone has reported them (even if they aren't told who it was)?
  - andyjohnson0 8mo ago
    From memory, and from the one time I did it about three years ago: they get a letter saying that the DVLA has reason to believe that they are unfit to drive and that they must pass a medical examination in order to keep their licence. I don't believe the letter says that they've been reported. And to be clear: when I said "anonymously" I meant from the pov of the person being reported. The DVLA requires some basic details of the person making the report, but they're definitely not disclosed to the subject.
  - cucumber3732842 8mo ago
    If "anonymously" is your make or break criteria then that should be a red flag to reconsider your actions because it almost certainly means those around you (edit: a group distinct from the target of such actions) would not agree with you. And if you think everyone around would agree with you, then you'll probably do better leveraging them instead of the government. Generally, not just on this issue. Now, I get that some social issues can be touchy in this regard but we're not talking about gay dating in Saudi Arabia here, we're talking about something pretty non-controversial. Everyone's body declines as they get old. Among seniors stopping driving at some point is just a part of the aging process.
globular-toast 8mo ago
> Older people in the UK already have free bus passes and various other substantial concessions regarding public transport. My parents live somewhere that has two buses a week. They could get to the nearest city, then come back two hours later. If they miss the return bus they'd have to wait until next week. A lot of these things sound great until you actually look at the reality.
deanc 8mo ago
> Older people in the UK already have free bus passes and various other substantial concessions regarding public transport. Cars are dangerous, and if you can't see clearly, you're obviously not fit to drive. It's true that there will be negative impacts on people who will fail the eye tests, and we should be compassionate, but ultimately those people aren't safe behind the wheel, and put other peoples lives at risk, not just their own. This is an absurd take. I grew up in a town of ~60,000 people in the UK. The public transport, was, and _still_ is terrible. To get to the nearby shopping center which was the only place with bowling and a movie theatre, and any shops that weren't charity shops involved 2 trains and a bus taking about an hour and a half. A drive would be 20 minutes and a negotiation with my parents to give me a lift. Nowadays my mother is in her 70s and lives in this same town, and drives into the countryside every day to take her mental health walks. Without this, she probably wouldn't be here today. Taking her car away from her would be giving her a death sentence to rot at home on a council estate that she hates living in. > The UK has plenty of public transport options and places where people can live with amenities close by I mean this simply isn't true. You must live in London or a bubble.
- newdee 8mo ago
  But if she’s unfit to drive, should she still be allowed to drive?
  - deanc 8mo ago
    Maybe I should have snipped the first part of the paragraph, but no absolutely not. If you're unfit to drive you should have your license taken away. I was commenting primarily on the suggestion that all these old people who rely on their vehicles will suddenly be able to use a functional public transport system - allowing them to get around freely. This is simply not true outside of London.
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
II2II 8mo ago
> My grandfather moved house relatively recently -- in full knowledge that the house he chose would benefit from car ownership, and in full knowledge about his age. On the other hand, my grandfather was the exact opposite. He recognized that he would have to move from the country to the city in order to live in a place with adequate public transportation and easier access to medical care. Which he did, and he lived in his own home until he passed away. Likewise, in my university days, I rented a floor in an elderly woman's house. It allowed her to remain independent in a community where she had social connections (e.g. friends and church), health care was easy to access, and everything she needed was within walking distance. To many, renting part of their house out would be unthinkable, but the alternative would be living in a place where everyone is car dependent. Unfortunately, some people aren't planning with their current or future needs in mind. Or they are unwilling to make compromises in order to address those needs.
jacquesm 8mo ago
One of my elderly uncles was in this position, but he was a bit more responsible about it than your grandfather. His way to solve it was like this: he sold his car at a discount to someone else in the same building on the condition that when he needs transport they'll drive him. It works out well, he only uses it when he absolutely has to and the rest of the time he either walks or has stuff delivered. It was a painful decision for him but in the end it worked out well (and I'm the backup driver but I'm about 100 km away from where he lives so it would always take me at least an hour to get there).
Fire-Dragon-DoL 8mo ago
The opposite is also true,traditional optometrists seems to do everything possible to try and find a reason for me to wear glasses (i don't, I see fine). They always want to upsell me glasses.

graemep 8mo ago

> Older people in the UK already have free bus passes and various other substantial concessions regarding public transport. Which is fine if you live somewhere where there is public transport.

tonyedgecombe 8mo ago
You have to be pretty remote to have no public transport in the UK.
- gib444 8mo ago
  And not very remote at all for it to be practically non existent and unreliable Every passing year non-city/big town buses get cut and cut and cut because councils are bankrupt
- graemep 8mo ago
  To have none at all, yes, it would have to be very remote. To have very limited public transport, then lots of places outside big cities. I just dropped by daughter off at a friend's house. 4 minutes by car, 40 minutes by bus. Busses here are infrequent and unreliable. You need to take a bus to get to a train if you are going a longer distance. This is in a town with a population of about 20 thousand in Cheshire.
  - chmod775 8mo ago
    > I just dropped by daughter off at a friend's house. 4 minutes by car In most urban areas that equates to about 20 minutes on foot. Why bother to even get into a car/bus for that? Edit: I checked your weather. Definitely wouldn't want to wait at a bus stop.
    - tialaramex 8mo ago
      Car drivers are always like this, everywhere. Even when I was a little kid, last century, it's a village school, every pupil lives in the same mile or so radius and yet loads of them get picked up in a car. I now live in a big city but when I walk to the office it's just before school starts, so I see that yeah at first I'm passing kids happily walking with parents but just outside the school it's a jam of idiots who "just quickly" are here to drop the child from a car. The contrast in a few weeks when school is closed will be dramatic, that street is dead, but I bet every one of those parents thinks of it as a "busy road, they ought to do something about that" while not remembering that it's busy because of them.

andyjohnson0 8mo ago

You can anonymously report your concerns to the DVLA at [1]. Select "driver's medical". I had to do this with an elderly family member who refused to stop driving despite being manifestly physically and cognitively incapable. Its a difficult call but you may be saving someone's life. [1] https://contact.dvla.gov.uk/driver/capture-transaction-type https://contact.dvla.gov.uk/driver/capture-transaction-type

noodlesUK 8mo ago
Thank you for this. I was mistakenly under the impression that it was not possible to raise these concerns with DVLA anonymously. Do you know what the process that follows this looks like? Are they just asked to self-certify again? Are they told that someone has reported them (even if they aren't told who it was)?
- andyjohnson0 8mo ago
  From memory, and from the one time I did it about three years ago: they get a letter saying that the DVLA has reason to believe that they are unfit to drive and that they must pass a medical examination in order to keep their licence. I don't believe the letter says that they've been reported. And to be clear: when I said "anonymously" I meant from the pov of the person being reported. The DVLA requires some basic details of the person making the report, but they're definitely not disclosed to the subject.
- cucumber3732842 8mo ago
  If "anonymously" is your make or break criteria then that should be a red flag to reconsider your actions because it almost certainly means those around you (edit: a group distinct from the target of such actions) would not agree with you. And if you think everyone around would agree with you, then you'll probably do better leveraging them instead of the government. Generally, not just on this issue. Now, I get that some social issues can be touchy in this regard but we're not talking about gay dating in Saudi Arabia here, we're talking about something pretty non-controversial. Everyone's body declines as they get old. Among seniors stopping driving at some point is just a part of the aging process.

globular-toast 8mo ago

> Older people in the UK already have free bus passes and various other substantial concessions regarding public transport. My parents live somewhere that has two buses a week. They could get to the nearest city, then come back two hours later. If they miss the return bus they'd have to wait until next week. A lot of these things sound great until you actually look at the reality.

deanc 8mo ago

> Older people in the UK already have free bus passes and various other substantial concessions regarding public transport. Cars are dangerous, and if you can't see clearly, you're obviously not fit to drive. It's true that there will be negative impacts on people who will fail the eye tests, and we should be compassionate, but ultimately those people aren't safe behind the wheel, and put other peoples lives at risk, not just their own. This is an absurd take. I grew up in a town of ~60,000 people in the UK. The public transport, was, and _still_ is terrible. To get to the nearby shopping center which was the only place with bowling and a movie theatre, and any shops that weren't charity shops involved 2 trains and a bus taking about an hour and a half. A drive would be 20 minutes and a negotiation with my parents to give me a lift. Nowadays my mother is in her 70s and lives in this same town, and drives into the countryside every day to take her mental health walks. Without this, she probably wouldn't be here today. Taking her car away from her would be giving her a death sentence to rot at home on a council estate that she hates living in. > The UK has plenty of public transport options and places where people can live with amenities close by I mean this simply isn't true. You must live in London or a bubble.

newdee 8mo ago
But if she’s unfit to drive, should she still be allowed to drive?
- deanc 8mo ago
  Maybe I should have snipped the first part of the paragraph, but no absolutely not. If you're unfit to drive you should have your license taken away. I was commenting primarily on the suggestion that all these old people who rely on their vehicles will suddenly be able to use a functional public transport system - allowing them to get around freely. This is simply not true outside of London.
deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]

II2II 8mo ago

> My grandfather moved house relatively recently -- in full knowledge that the house he chose would benefit from car ownership, and in full knowledge about his age. On the other hand, my grandfather was the exact opposite. He recognized that he would have to move from the country to the city in order to live in a place with adequate public transportation and easier access to medical care. Which he did, and he lived in his own home until he passed away. Likewise, in my university days, I rented a floor in an elderly woman's house. It allowed her to remain independent in a community where she had social connections (e.g. friends and church), health care was easy to access, and everything she needed was within walking distance. To many, renting part of their house out would be unthinkable, but the alternative would be living in a place where everyone is car dependent. Unfortunately, some people aren't planning with their current or future needs in mind. Or they are unwilling to make compromises in order to address those needs.

jacquesm 8mo ago

One of my elderly uncles was in this position, but he was a bit more responsible about it than your grandfather. His way to solve it was like this: he sold his car at a discount to someone else in the same building on the condition that when he needs transport they'll drive him. It works out well, he only uses it when he absolutely has to and the rest of the time he either walks or has stuff delivered. It was a painful decision for him but in the end it worked out well (and I'm the backup driver but I'm about 100 km away from where he lives so it would always take me at least an hour to get there).

Fire-Dragon-DoL 8mo ago

The opposite is also true,traditional optometrists seems to do everything possible to try and find a reason for me to wear glasses (i don't, I see fine). They always want to upsell me glasses.