6 ms·

To answer a few people at once: I did mention compensation as a factor in the post, but I didn't elaborate details, so easy to miss. Comp is important of course

To answer a few people at once: I did mention compensation as a factor in the post, but I didn't elaborate details, so easy to miss. Comp is important of course, but so are the other factors. It feels like I can't go for a day without reading about the cost of AI datacenters in the news, and I can do something about it.

DeepYogurt 8mo ago
You gonna open source it?
politelemon 8mo ago
It would be good if the performance improvements made can be applicable across the industry so everyone benefits. But it doesn't sound unbelievable that OpenAi may want to keep some of it secret to keep an advantage over others?
- yunohn 8mo ago
  Unbelievable? It’s unfathomable - out of all existing AI companies, OpenAI is the least open of them all. They have stopped contributing any useful research into the public domain. Even infamous “villains” like Meta and China are doing leaps and bounds more compared to /Open/AI and the like.
bahmboo 8mo ago
Thanks for taking the risk in this environment and posting about your experience from a personal standpoint. [environment: people will come at you from all angles with very passionate opinions]
kgraves 8mo ago
> I stood on the street after my haircut and let sink in how big this was, how this technology has become an essential aide for so many, how I could lead performance efforts and help save the planet. Brendan. First of all congratulations on your new job. However, It is easier to just say to everyone it is about the money, compensation and the stock options. You're not joining a charity, or to save the planet, this company is about to unload on the public markets at an unfathomable $1TN valuation. Don't insult your readers.
- 80696527890 8mo ago
  [flagged]
  - rvz 8mo ago
    For the Benefit of Humanity®
jcgrillo 8mo ago
Interesting. Out of curiosity, how long do you think OpenAI can survive as a company? Put another way, what would be your guesses for probability of failure on 1yr, 3yr, and 5yr horizons? EDIT: possibly a corollary--does Mia pay money for chatgpt or use a free plan?
- brendangregg 8mo ago
  As an engineer I can't comment on future company predictions. It sounds like a question for Sam Altman, as he has discussed risks in the past. My wife was paying for ChatGPT before I joined. I didn't ask Mia. I probably have three months of hair growth before my next chance to ask.
  - sh3rl0ck 8mo ago
    'Before you joined' seems to that she doesn't anymore. I find it a little amusing that AI companies provide free AI subscriptions to their employees and their families. Perhaps because I'd never thought of it that way. That's kinda nice actually; I assume employees get early access to models to test (5.3 codex, for example). Do families get it too?
username223 8mo ago
[flagged]
- gghffguhvc 8mo ago
  I believe him. I don’t know him personally but his blog posts pop up here from time to time and this feels genuine to me.
  - buzzerbetrayed 8mo ago
    You believe someone taking a fat paycheck isn’t doing it for the fat paycheck? Wanna buy a bridge?
    - surajrmal 8mo ago
      Humans are complex and have multiple sources of motivation. You don't know whether he took the offer with the highest pay. He's likely wealthy enough that he can pay less attention to his income and focus on his other sources of motivation if he wants to. That's not to say pay is not a factor in his choice, but it need not be the only or primary one. This is a luxury of the privileged for sure, which can make it difficult to relate to.
AnonHP 8mo ago
I’m replying to your comment in the hopes of getting a response. In the blog post, you said: > There's so many interesting things to work on, things I have done before and things I haven't. What are the things you haven’t done before, if you could mention them?
brendangregg 8mo ago
Again, many comments here saying I only care about the money, and while comp is an important factor I think it characterizes me as someone I'm not, and forgets what I've been doing for the past two decades. I've spent thousands of hours of my life writing textbooks for roughly minimum wage, as I want to help others like me (I came from nothing, with no access tech meetups or conferences, and books were the gateway to a better job). I've published technologies as open source that have allowed others to make millions and are the basis for many startups. I'm also helping pioneer remote work and hoping to set a good example for others to follow (as I've published about before). So I think I'm well known for caring about a lot of things during the past couple of decades.
- alephnerd 8mo ago
  Ignore the haters (who sadly have become extremely common on HN now). I loved your work back when I was an IC, and I'm sure this is a common sentiment across the industry amongst those of us who started systems adjacent! I still refer to your BPF tools and Systems Performance books despite having not written professional code for years now. Can't wait to read content similar to what you wrote about when at Netflix and Intel albeit about the newer generation of GPUs and ASICs and the newer generation of performance problems!
  - kgraves 8mo ago
    [flagged]
    - raymond_goo 8mo ago
      Ah, so you you see into the future, got it!
- snayan 8mo ago
  I mean, I don't know you well, but, I see your posts on here from time to time and from what I gather you are very, very, exceptional at what you do. Reality is, these AI giants are here and they are using a massive amount of resources. Love them or hate them, that is where we are. Whether or not you accept the job with them, OpenAI is gonna OpenAI. Given how much the detractors scream about resource uses, you'd think they'd welcome the fact that someone of your calibre is going in and attempting to make a difference. Which, leads me to believe you're encountering a lot of projecting from people who perhaps can't land the highest of comp roles, and shield their ego by ascribing to the concept of it being selling out, which they would of course never do.
deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
journal 8mo ago
I feel like I can do something about something too but no one is picking me to do anything about anything.
jonesetc 8mo ago
>Did fixing it from the inside work for any of those other issues? No, it never does. Those people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might, but...it might just work for us.
vasco 8mo ago
Turn them off!
PunchTornado 8mo ago
[flagged]
motbus3 8mo ago
Read this Gregg. I'm the first one to always put your work and books in any comments related to you or your work here. But... This is a company which at the first opportunity seized and stopped doing open research, cut open source contributions, converted itself to for profit after years of fiscal benefits, that scrapped its ethics committee and removed all engineers who opposed any of this. Don't come with the excuse there is any work being done for the better of something. One should never input one's own expectations into another, but, I feel disappointed. It is having the guy I saw growing from the first posts working for an evil machine on his own volition. Do what you want. But that's what I feel about this disheartening news
robotpepi 8mo ago
[flagged]
rybosworld 8mo ago
Hey Brendan - first time listener, first time caller. Inferring the overall tone from the comments, I think the folks here are struggling with what sounds like a logical fallacy from someone who is certainly a logical thinker. > how I could lead performance efforts and help save the planet. The problem on the face of it being: Performance gains will not translate to less energy usage (and by extension less heat released into the atmosphere). Rather, performance gains will mean that more effective compute can be squeezed from the existing hardware. If performance gains translate to better utilization of the hardware, it also follows that it will translate to more money for the company, allowing for the purchase of more GPUs. Ad infinitum. My stance is that this is just businesses doing what they do. It's always required regulation to slow down the direct/indirect negative byproducts (petro companies being the most obvious example). I don't see how AI would inherently be different. Is there another angle that I (we) am (are) missing where the performance efficiencies translate to net benefits for the planet?
- brendangregg 8mo ago
  Given the widely reported issue of AI environmental cost, and being among the top people in the world who can fix it, I don't feel comfortable with _inaction_. I can reduce datacenter sizes, so I'll do that. As a performance engineer I'm familiar with Jevons paradox, but it does not discourage improving efficiency.
  - Podrod 8mo ago
    But that's just it,you're not going to reduce sizes. You're deluding yourself.
artninja1988 8mo ago
I use LLMs daily and they've become an essential part of my life. Really hoping your work can help make LLMs and AI more broadly cheaper and more abundant. Would be fantastic if you can find a way to make optimizations you find available more openly. The whole ecosystem benefits when efficiency improvements are shared. Looking forward to seeing where this goes and don't let the negativity from some get to you
cyanydeez 8mo ago
Consider your a engineer equivalent of a DoT engineer and your job will be to add just one more lane. You arnt going to stop the excesses.
jhoho 8mo ago
You might want to read about the rebound effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebound_effect_(conservation) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebound_effect_(conservation)

DeepYogurt 8mo ago

You gonna open source it?

politelemon 8mo ago

It would be good if the performance improvements made can be applicable across the industry so everyone benefits. But it doesn't sound unbelievable that OpenAi may want to keep some of it secret to keep an advantage over others?

yunohn 8mo ago
Unbelievable? It’s unfathomable - out of all existing AI companies, OpenAI is the least open of them all. They have stopped contributing any useful research into the public domain. Even infamous “villains” like Meta and China are doing leaps and bounds more compared to /Open/AI and the like.

bahmboo 8mo ago

Thanks for taking the risk in this environment and posting about your experience from a personal standpoint. [environment: people will come at you from all angles with very passionate opinions]

kgraves 8mo ago

> I stood on the street after my haircut and let sink in how big this was, how this technology has become an essential aide for so many, how I could lead performance efforts and help save the planet. Brendan. First of all congratulations on your new job. However, It is easier to just say to everyone it is about the money, compensation and the stock options. You're not joining a charity, or to save the planet, this company is about to unload on the public markets at an unfathomable $1TN valuation. Don't insult your readers.

80696527890 8mo ago
[flagged]
- rvz 8mo ago
  For the Benefit of Humanity®

jcgrillo 8mo ago

Interesting. Out of curiosity, how long do you think OpenAI can survive as a company? Put another way, what would be your guesses for probability of failure on 1yr, 3yr, and 5yr horizons? EDIT: possibly a corollary--does Mia pay money for chatgpt or use a free plan?

brendangregg 8mo ago
As an engineer I can't comment on future company predictions. It sounds like a question for Sam Altman, as he has discussed risks in the past. My wife was paying for ChatGPT before I joined. I didn't ask Mia. I probably have three months of hair growth before my next chance to ask.
- sh3rl0ck 8mo ago
  'Before you joined' seems to that she doesn't anymore. I find it a little amusing that AI companies provide free AI subscriptions to their employees and their families. Perhaps because I'd never thought of it that way. That's kinda nice actually; I assume employees get early access to models to test (5.3 codex, for example). Do families get it too?

username223 8mo ago

[flagged]

gghffguhvc 8mo ago
I believe him. I don’t know him personally but his blog posts pop up here from time to time and this feels genuine to me.
- buzzerbetrayed 8mo ago
  You believe someone taking a fat paycheck isn’t doing it for the fat paycheck? Wanna buy a bridge?
  - surajrmal 8mo ago
    Humans are complex and have multiple sources of motivation. You don't know whether he took the offer with the highest pay. He's likely wealthy enough that he can pay less attention to his income and focus on his other sources of motivation if he wants to. That's not to say pay is not a factor in his choice, but it need not be the only or primary one. This is a luxury of the privileged for sure, which can make it difficult to relate to.

AnonHP 8mo ago

I’m replying to your comment in the hopes of getting a response. In the blog post, you said: > There's so many interesting things to work on, things I have done before and things I haven't. What are the things you haven’t done before, if you could mention them?

brendangregg 8mo ago

Again, many comments here saying I only care about the money, and while comp is an important factor I think it characterizes me as someone I'm not, and forgets what I've been doing for the past two decades. I've spent thousands of hours of my life writing textbooks for roughly minimum wage, as I want to help others like me (I came from nothing, with no access tech meetups or conferences, and books were the gateway to a better job). I've published technologies as open source that have allowed others to make millions and are the basis for many startups. I'm also helping pioneer remote work and hoping to set a good example for others to follow (as I've published about before). So I think I'm well known for caring about a lot of things during the past couple of decades.

alephnerd 8mo ago
Ignore the haters (who sadly have become extremely common on HN now). I loved your work back when I was an IC, and I'm sure this is a common sentiment across the industry amongst those of us who started systems adjacent! I still refer to your BPF tools and Systems Performance books despite having not written professional code for years now. Can't wait to read content similar to what you wrote about when at Netflix and Intel albeit about the newer generation of GPUs and ASICs and the newer generation of performance problems!
- kgraves 8mo ago
  [flagged]
  - raymond_goo 8mo ago
    Ah, so you you see into the future, got it!
snayan 8mo ago
I mean, I don't know you well, but, I see your posts on here from time to time and from what I gather you are very, very, exceptional at what you do. Reality is, these AI giants are here and they are using a massive amount of resources. Love them or hate them, that is where we are. Whether or not you accept the job with them, OpenAI is gonna OpenAI. Given how much the detractors scream about resource uses, you'd think they'd welcome the fact that someone of your calibre is going in and attempting to make a difference. Which, leads me to believe you're encountering a lot of projecting from people who perhaps can't land the highest of comp roles, and shield their ego by ascribing to the concept of it being selling out, which they would of course never do.

deleted 8mo ago

[deleted]

journal 8mo ago

I feel like I can do something about something too but no one is picking me to do anything about anything.

jonesetc 8mo ago

>Did fixing it from the inside work for any of those other issues? No, it never does. Those people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might, but...it might just work for us.

vasco 8mo ago

Turn them off!

PunchTornado 8mo ago

[flagged]

motbus3 8mo ago

Read this Gregg. I'm the first one to always put your work and books in any comments related to you or your work here. But... This is a company which at the first opportunity seized and stopped doing open research, cut open source contributions, converted itself to for profit after years of fiscal benefits, that scrapped its ethics committee and removed all engineers who opposed any of this. Don't come with the excuse there is any work being done for the better of something. One should never input one's own expectations into another, but, I feel disappointed. It is having the guy I saw growing from the first posts working for an evil machine on his own volition. Do what you want. But that's what I feel about this disheartening news

robotpepi 8mo ago

[flagged]

rybosworld 8mo ago

Hey Brendan - first time listener, first time caller. Inferring the overall tone from the comments, I think the folks here are struggling with what sounds like a logical fallacy from someone who is certainly a logical thinker. > how I could lead performance efforts and help save the planet. The problem on the face of it being: Performance gains will not translate to less energy usage (and by extension less heat released into the atmosphere). Rather, performance gains will mean that more effective compute can be squeezed from the existing hardware. If performance gains translate to better utilization of the hardware, it also follows that it will translate to more money for the company, allowing for the purchase of more GPUs. Ad infinitum. My stance is that this is just businesses doing what they do. It's always required regulation to slow down the direct/indirect negative byproducts (petro companies being the most obvious example). I don't see how AI would inherently be different. Is there another angle that I (we) am (are) missing where the performance efficiencies translate to net benefits for the planet?

brendangregg 8mo ago
Given the widely reported issue of AI environmental cost, and being among the top people in the world who can fix it, I don't feel comfortable with _inaction_. I can reduce datacenter sizes, so I'll do that. As a performance engineer I'm familiar with Jevons paradox, but it does not discourage improving efficiency.
- Podrod 8mo ago
  But that's just it,you're not going to reduce sizes. You're deluding yourself.

artninja1988 8mo ago

I use LLMs daily and they've become an essential part of my life. Really hoping your work can help make LLMs and AI more broadly cheaper and more abundant. Would be fantastic if you can find a way to make optimizations you find available more openly. The whole ecosystem benefits when efficiency improvements are shared. Looking forward to seeing where this goes and don't let the negativity from some get to you

cyanydeez 8mo ago

Consider your a engineer equivalent of a DoT engineer and your job will be to add just one more lane. You arnt going to stop the excesses.

jhoho 8mo ago

You might want to read about the rebound effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebound_effect_(conservation) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebound_effect_(conservation)