3 ms·

>The average person has zero chance against all-pervasive, ultra-manipulative, highly-engineered systems like that. So you are saying I am not an average perso

>The average person has zero chance against all-pervasive, ultra-manipulative, highly-engineered systems like that. So you are saying I am not an average person because I have the willpower to simply not install the TikTok app or watch short form video on any platform? Has the bar for the average person really sunk this low?

foobar_______ 8mo ago
Maybe? I really don't know. I don't want to believe it but the data and just looking around in public and seeing the scroll addition seems to indicate otherwise?
Jensson 8mo ago
> So you are saying I am not an average person because I have the willpower to simply not install the TikTok app or watch short form video on any platform? Yes, since more people use Tiktok than not. The average person is also fat today, so this shouldn't come as a surprise to you. People didn't grow fat and addicted to screens due to changes to themselves, its due to companies learning how to get people to eat more and watch more since the they make more money.
tvink 8mo ago
If only you could reach out of your own experience and ponder what might cause otherwise reasonable people to do so. Young people peer pressure, current marketing landscape, you're forced there if you want to make money as a creative, so many reasons. Great, you can live your life without. Can you live your life without assuming everyone has the privilege of your situation?
integralid 8mo ago
You also probably don't use heroin. Everyone knows it's a bad idea and yet for some reason we have very severe punishments for people that distribute it. Why? Because addictive things are addictive, and addicted people suffer, and everyone can get addicted if their guard slips. We prefer to regulate highly addictive things instead.
- D-Machine 8mo ago
  > You also probably don't use heroin. Everyone knows it's a bad idea About 1–12 months after using heroin, only 23%–38% become addicted [1]. Occasional and controlled heroin users do in fact exist and are documented [2]. And, most famously, the use of heroin by American soldiers during the Vietnam war was largely situational [3]. So what "everyone knows" here is not very impressive. I still very strongly believe you'd be a fool or at least reckless to try heroin, but it really isn't the bogeyman people want it to be. [1] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/2681168 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/... [2] https://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/3906/ https://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/3906/ [3] https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.64.12_Suppl.38 https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.64.12...
  - xeckr 8mo ago
    >only 23%–38% become addicted Wow, only Russian roulette with 2 bullets odds?
    - D-Machine 8mo ago
      Yup, hence why only a reckless person or fool would try it. But, since only a minority of people get addicted to heroin (i.e. the evils of heroin are overstated), and since no one is actually seriously arguing that viewing TikTok is as risky (23-38% chance after exposure) as trying heroin, or has as bad side effects, I think it reveals that comparisons to heroin use in arguments against TikTok are hyperbolic and disconnected from reality, by empirical data.
      - xeckr 8mo ago
        >I think it reveals that comparisons to heroin use in arguments against TikTok are hyperbolic and disconnected from reality, by empirical data. I don't think that follows from your premises. Who is overstating the evils of heroin? Plenty of people argue that viewing TikTok (or AI-optimized short-form feeds) has bad side effects, mostly in the direction of eroding your ability to pay attention to anything less stimulating. One thing that makes heroin more benign is that it's "finished" in some sense. The drug trade will find more addictive substances (e.g. fentanyl), but a vial of pure heroin isn't going to gradually become more addictive over time in ways that are imperceptible to the user but visible on the backend because the loss function trends downward.
zapzupnz 8mo ago
Congratulations, you've won the "Works on My Machine" award, except for self-control instead of software. Well done. Everyone's very impressed.

foobar_______ 8mo ago

Maybe? I really don't know. I don't want to believe it but the data and just looking around in public and seeing the scroll addition seems to indicate otherwise?

Jensson 8mo ago

> So you are saying I am not an average person because I have the willpower to simply not install the TikTok app or watch short form video on any platform? Yes, since more people use Tiktok than not. The average person is also fat today, so this shouldn't come as a surprise to you. People didn't grow fat and addicted to screens due to changes to themselves, its due to companies learning how to get people to eat more and watch more since the they make more money.

tvink 8mo ago

If only you could reach out of your own experience and ponder what might cause otherwise reasonable people to do so. Young people peer pressure, current marketing landscape, you're forced there if you want to make money as a creative, so many reasons. Great, you can live your life without. Can you live your life without assuming everyone has the privilege of your situation?

integralid 8mo ago

You also probably don't use heroin. Everyone knows it's a bad idea and yet for some reason we have very severe punishments for people that distribute it. Why? Because addictive things are addictive, and addicted people suffer, and everyone can get addicted if their guard slips. We prefer to regulate highly addictive things instead.

D-Machine 8mo ago
> You also probably don't use heroin. Everyone knows it's a bad idea About 1–12 months after using heroin, only 23%–38% become addicted [1]. Occasional and controlled heroin users do in fact exist and are documented [2]. And, most famously, the use of heroin by American soldiers during the Vietnam war was largely situational [3]. So what "everyone knows" here is not very impressive. I still very strongly believe you'd be a fool or at least reckless to try heroin, but it really isn't the bogeyman people want it to be. [1] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/2681168 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/... [2] https://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/3906/ https://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/3906/ [3] https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.64.12_Suppl.38 https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.64.12...
- xeckr 8mo ago
  >only 23%–38% become addicted Wow, only Russian roulette with 2 bullets odds?
  - D-Machine 8mo ago
    Yup, hence why only a reckless person or fool would try it. But, since only a minority of people get addicted to heroin (i.e. the evils of heroin are overstated), and since no one is actually seriously arguing that viewing TikTok is as risky (23-38% chance after exposure) as trying heroin, or has as bad side effects, I think it reveals that comparisons to heroin use in arguments against TikTok are hyperbolic and disconnected from reality, by empirical data.
    - xeckr 8mo ago
      >I think it reveals that comparisons to heroin use in arguments against TikTok are hyperbolic and disconnected from reality, by empirical data. I don't think that follows from your premises. Who is overstating the evils of heroin? Plenty of people argue that viewing TikTok (or AI-optimized short-form feeds) has bad side effects, mostly in the direction of eroding your ability to pay attention to anything less stimulating. One thing that makes heroin more benign is that it's "finished" in some sense. The drug trade will find more addictive substances (e.g. fentanyl), but a vial of pure heroin isn't going to gradually become more addictive over time in ways that are imperceptible to the user but visible on the backend because the loss function trends downward.

zapzupnz 8mo ago

Congratulations, you've won the "Works on My Machine" award, except for self-control instead of software. Well done. Everyone's very impressed.