9 ms·

AnandTech: Microsoft Surface Review

197 points by barista 14y ago

andrewljohnson 14y ago
* EDIT: Didn't see the article had more pages. Please disregard my silly comment. I feel a bit dumb, but the control to go to the next page is non-standard and confusing if you ask me: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5owebbhai6oxazt/Screen%20Shot%202012-10-23%20at%207.46.19%20PM.png https://www.dropbox.com/s/5owebbhai6oxazt/Screen%20Shot%2020... This review doesn't say a thing about the device. He doesn't say anything negative, he doesn't say anything positive. He just says it's worth considering, and heavily quotes a random Microsoft exec. He says he "gets it" but doesn't say what that means. I have no idea what the point of the article is, or what information it's supposed to convey. He could have simply said "Microsoft has a tablet." I'd say it was a PR piece if it didn't sound so darn blase on the whole thing, but I guess that echoes the exec he quoted. Is Microsoft's communications strategy simply to convince people not to talk about the features or functions of the Surface?
- sp332 14y ago
  Snippets from the last page: "As a device, Surface is incredibly well executed. Surface is the most flexible tablet I've ever used. Multitasking, task switching and the ability to have multiple applications active on the screen at once are all big advantages that Microsoft enjoys. For productivity workloads, Surface is without equal in the tablet space. Content consumption is also great on the device. Surface's display isn't industry leading but it's still good. Reading emails, browsing the web flipping through photos and watching videos are all good fits for the platform - just as good as competing solutions from Apple or Google. I would have liked to have seen faster hardware inside, and there are some rough edges that could use smoothing out (e.g. the power connector and HDMI output come to mind) but overall the device is easily in recommendable territory. If you're ok being an early adopter, and ok dealing with the fact that mobile devices are still being significantly revved every year, Surface is worth your consideration. If you've wanted a tablet that could really bridge the content consumption and prodcutivity device, Surface is it."
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- arrrg 14y ago
  Is it possible you didn’t see that this review has multiple pages? You seem to have only read the introduction and setup (where the tone you encountered isn’t something special: at the start most reviews paint a picture of the environment a product is in and what the company that is selling the product says it wants the product to be).
  - andrewljohnson 14y ago
    Correct, my bad!
- barista 14y ago
  I don't get why you think the article did not say anything about the tablet. It did review and compare various aspects of it such as the performance, display, battery life with other tablets on the market. It did not cover the software in details but I think that is the part of the review. Windows 8 by itself has been covered in detail elsewhere.
- mamp 14y ago
  I agree, this is unusual for Anandtech. It seems you could summarise the 12 page review as 'meh'. Maybe they didn't have enough time with it to get into any more detailed analysis. Also, I get the impression that Microsoft has been set a lower bar -- almost encouraged for just having a go in this space rather than comparing it to existing products. E.g. how does the Type Cover compare to the range of 3rd party products available for the iPad for < $129? How much better is the Touch Cover to onscreen when taking into account predictive text & auto correct? Not much to go on in this review. Maybe MS haven't given a lot of time for people to spend with the product.
  - barista 14y ago
    >> Maybe MS haven't given a lot of time for people to spend with the product. I remember to have read that he was playing with the device for almost 3 weeks. That's seems long enough.
  - rossjudson 14y ago
    Any separate typing surface is superior to a touch screen surface. Touch screen keypads cover massive parts of the screen, force constant hand shifts, and constantly reposition content on the screen. Auto-correct and predictive corrections try to cover for problems that shouldn't exist. I fail to see how the review can be characterized as "meh". It comes off as guardedly impressed to me, and definitely looking forward to the next revision of the hardware. Hmm. Just saw a Surface commercial on TV while I was writing this. Looks like the war is a "go". Beneficiaries: Everyone.
    - contextfree 14y ago
      Besides, auto-correct and predictive text can work with physical keyboards too.
      - ygra 14y ago
        They're just not that needed there. Or maybe that needs getting used to and it must never get in the way of normal typing. Although, now that I think of it, Word has auto-corrected common typos for ages now and in more recent versions it never caught something it shouldn't have (unlike Word 97).
hinting 14y ago
AnandTech does a great job with in-depth technical dives, but for general product reviews sites like the Verge seem to do a much better job. http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3540550/microsoft-surface-review http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3540550/microsoft-surface... The promise of the Surface was that it could deliver a best-in-class tablet experience, but then transform into the PC you needed when heavier lifting was required. Instead of putting down my tablet and picking up my laptop, I would just snap on my keyboard and get my work done. But that's not what the Surface offers, at least not in my experience. It does the job of a tablet and the job of a laptop half as well as other devices on the market, and it often makes that job harder, not easier. Instead of being a no-compromise device, it often feels like a more-compromise one.
- hackoder 14y ago
  Unfortunately it doesn't seem like there is a way to achieve both. If you want a reasonably sized keyboard, the screen will end up being too large (as is the case with Surface). Or if you want a more traditional tablet sized screen, the keyboard will suffer (for e.g. the Transformer Prime).
- guelo 14y ago
  Their review is more negative but I'm not sure why it's a much better job.
- Mythbusters 14y ago
  I wonder why the author tried to treat this as a full desktop replacement knowing that this is ARM based unit and hence does not run full windows 8. The Surface Pro is the one that should fir the bill of a tablet that is a laptop replacement. The author is expecting things from the unit that it is not quite designed for.
  - tesseractive 14y ago
    It has an awful lot of affordances to make it look like it might be a laptop replacement -- the keyboard covers, the desktop mode, Office. It's obviously not suitable simply as a laptop, nor is it a very credible straight-up replacement for an iPad, at least at this point. So if it was going to succeed at something, the most likely outcome would be as a good-enough laptop replacement and a good-enough tablet replacement, even though it would be a compromise as either. Instead, the reviewer came to the conclusion that it was more of a "neither fish nor fowl" product. Having not had a chance to use one myself, I nevertheless suspect that will be my conclusion when I have a chance to try one out.
mikeevans 14y ago
I can't wait to try one myself. I only wish it was cheaper, mostly because I'm not sure how much value I would get out of it. (I own a laptop and a Nexus 7)
- steverb 14y ago
  I'm in the same boat. I'm personally holding out for the Surface Pro, but the RT is very tempting.
notatoad 14y ago
From the review: "this isn't an iPad competitor" And yet, Microsoft lifts the embargo on reviews about 6hrs after the release of the new ipad. Fun timing.
- solnyshok 14y ago
  yep, also noticed this. now reviews are on engadget, techcrunch, anandtech and everywhere else. guess they try to dilute ipad mini pr
  - microtherion 14y ago
    I could be mistaken, but my impression was that the surface launch date was set first, review embargoes were timed to that, and, if anything, Apple timed the iPad mini event to step on the Surface launch rather than vice versa.
- bergie 14y ago
  We're clearly in a this means war situation with all the launches targeting the Christmas shopping season... Surface, WP8, yesterday's iPad announcements, Google's event next week. All of them are clearly timed to try and steal thunder from the others. I suppose the extra viciousness is because the next two quarters may well decide the fate of several major product lines: Android on tablets, Windows on phones, survival of companies like Nokia and Sony's mobile division, ... http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/22/3537380/the-high-stakes-of-holiday-shopping http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/22/3537380/the-high-stakes-o...
tomkinstinch 14y ago
I don't really follow Microsoft news. The last time I heard about a Microsoft Surface product it was the size of a kitchen table. I wonder why they used the same name for this product.
- RyJones 14y ago
  The already owned the name; unlike Metro. The former Surface product is extremely niche, unlikely to suffer diminished market share due to a name change.
- untog 14y ago
  Because it's a great name. The previous Surface was never a consumer product (and still lives on with a name I forget) so there's no huge problem outside of tech circles.
  - duck 14y ago
    It is now called PixelSense (which is not a great name): http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/pixelsense/default.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/pixelsense/default.aspx
    - untog 14y ago
      Eh, it's a corporate product. Corporate products tend to have stupid MultipleCapitals names, for reasons I do not understand.
    - nsns 14y ago
      ...but it seems some iterations keep the old name, e.g. - http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=226521990 http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=226521990
ChuckMcM 14y ago
This is the best review I've read so far. I agree with the reviewer in that I've had the same sort of feeling that Microsoft doesn't really 'get' it, but phrasing it as their 'perspective' on the market is exactly right. The first time Microsoft tried to do a 'tablet' aka the 'tablet pc' too much 'pc' and not enough 'tablet'. This seems to have moved in the spectrum closer to 'tablet' but the PC roots are still showing. I want this to be successful because I would love something like it with a bit 'denser' screen and flexibility. I wonder if they tried a keyboard with a fold out mouse like ginormous scroll area. I really like the fit and finish though. That is some awesome tech right there.
- Mythbusters 14y ago
  I guess the PC roots showing is actually the intent of the design. I have used Windows 8 and I can only imagine how much it will feel natural on a device like this. The metro UI invites touch interaction and the older office like apps will work best with mouse and keyboard. I'd prefer the surface with full windows though so that I can use all my legacy apps as well.
- stcredzero 14y ago
  > The first time Microsoft tried to do a 'tablet' aka the 'tablet pc' too much 'pc' and not enough 'tablet'. This seems to have moved in the spectrum closer to 'tablet' but the PC roots are still showing. Basically, they've gone and perfected the OQO. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OQO http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OQO Pretty soon, we'll have 512GB flash drives in these things. Most of us won't have a reason for an old fashioned PC. We'll just have different interface form factors.
- anigbrowl 14y ago
  If the x86 version has sufficient horsepower, they could present the iPad with a serious high-end challenge, because there's a lot of software I like on my Windows box that I'd love to be able to use in a tablet environment (without needing any more functionality than mouse emulation), not to mention a goodly number of USB devices that interface with same. That would substantially reduce my iPad envy.
lambda 14y ago
This is not a very favorable review. While it seems to be trying to spin in a positive direction, the fact that the first several paragraphs are about how Microsoft wanted to control the message, and not about how great a product this is, are not encouraging. Then there's a lot of hemming an hawing over how there's no perfect solution, and it doesn't run Windows applications. This was not enough to convince me to read the rest of the review.
- joshma 14y ago
  How can you attempt to summarize a review as "not very favorable" when you haven't been "convinced" to read the rest of it? At least read the closing paragraph if you're not going to bother spending more time: "If you're ok being an early adopter, and ok dealing with the fact that mobile devices are still being significantly revved every year, Surface is worth your consideration. If you've wanted a tablet that could really bridge the content consumption and productivity device, Surface is it." If anything, this review seemed to lean positive. I wouldn't say it was gushing with love, but it's certainly left me with a solid impression of the hardware and a sense that the Surface won't be a complete flop. The mix of damning judgement and deliberate ignorance here is amusing.
- Mythbusters 14y ago
  This one focuses on the hardware for the most part. Which I think is quite comparable to other options if not favorable. When it comes to Windows 8 though, its a personal taste. I love it even on my non-touch laptop and am looking forward to using it on a touch based laptop when I upgrade my current machine.
- sremani 14y ago
  Translation... I already own an IPad (may be several of them), I am insecure to read about other options out there because their advantages may make my device look like lacking and hence I become a stupid consumer. For me to be considered a smart consumer, I should constantly remind the rest of the population how awesome my IPad is.
eric-hu 14y ago
>> The chassis is built out of an injection molded Magnesium... Would someone more qualified than I comment on this? I seem to remember from high school that magnesium is highly flammable. Its autoignition temperature is fairly high at 473C/883F, but I could see a li-ion battery malfunction leading to a pretty nasty fire hazard. Is there some special process that can be applied to magnesium to ensure that this product doesn't turn into a flare?
- pyre 14y ago
  I would venture a guess that it's not pure Magnesium, but an alloy of some sort.
- minikomi 14y ago
  One process is described on wikipedia, using inert gas to prevent ignition[1]: For magnesium alloys, thixomolding uses a machine similar to injection molding. In a single step process, room temperature magnesium alloy chips are fed into the back end of a heated barrel through a volumetric feeder. The barrel is maintained under an argon atmosphere to prevent oxidation of the magnesium chips. A screw feeder located inside the barrel feeds the magnesium chips forward as they are heated into the semi-solid temperature range. The screw rotation provides the necessary shearing force to generate the globular structure needed for semi-solid casting. Once enough slurry has accumulated, the screw moves forward to inject the slurry into a steel die. [1] http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-solid_metal_casting#Thixomolding http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-solid_metal_casting#Thix...
- kanwisher 14y ago
  I'm just going to leave this here... Burning a NeXT Cube (Magnesium) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkvQ-BJD2rU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkvQ-BJD2rU
  - xentronium 14y ago
    He used thermite to burn it, so I guess it's not trivial.
kuviaq 14y ago
"The biggest issue I have with recommending Surface is that you know the next iteration of the device is likely going to be appreciably better, with faster/more efficient hardware and perhaps even a better chassis. " Why call this out when it is true for every single piece of consumer hardware these days?
- nacs 14y ago
  He's basically stating that the Surface has "version 1.0" issues (in hardware and software) that he hopes will go away with the "1.1"/"2.0" release of Surface..
  - Jare 14y ago
    iPad 3 owners can confirm that hardware obsolescence is not purely a matter of "1.0" issues.
    - potatolicious 14y ago
      Yes, but your iPad 3 is still a perfectly good device with few thorny, glaring, obvious omissions. I think that's the point the statement is trying to make: that even just looking at the device there are enough things that are glaring omissions and misses that you will feel shortchanged when they're inevitably fixed in v2. I feel the same way about the iPad mini. The lack of a retina display in this day and age feels like a very obvious miss, and you know they will fix this next year, which makes buying it now seem like a poor proposition.
      - Jare 14y ago
        In my opinion, the lack of hardware to match at Retina resolution the rendering capabilities of the iPad 2 was a pretty HUGE miss on the iPad 3. I can't see anything so obviously missing from the Surface.
        ygra 14y ago
        Read the article, it covers that point. If MS would have wanted to compete on that front it would have either needed to sacrifice graphics performance, or go Apple's route and design a custom SoC. One isn't acceptable and the other probably not feasible given the resources they wanted to invest.
blinkingled 14y ago
From the wired review : Half the apps pre-installed on the Surface RT launches in the classic desktop interface, most notably Microsoft Office, where the smaller user elements do not play nicely with the touch interface. From AnandTech's review just typing into Office takes 50% CPU. I had totally expected Microsoft will get Office right - touch friendly, not relying on classic Desktop and relatively bloat free. If integrated well with the tablet interface it would become a better productivity machine for Enterprise users than competition's offerings. With what is being said of Office RT, I don't see what the selling point of Surface is - It is Windows but can't run Windows apps, it is a tablet but needs to switch to classic to run a so-so version of touch-unfriendly Office (Do I get Outlook with it?). May be it will be a better story with Surface Pro.
- amvp 14y ago
  I'm a little confused. I thought windows RT didn't have a 'classic mode' - and all apps were metro-style?
  - smacktoward 14y ago
    All third-party RT apps have to be Metro-style. Microsoft granted themselves an exception to that rule for Office RT and IE.
    - contextfree 14y ago
      More precisely, the exception is for preinstalled apps.
      - ygra 14y ago
        So 3rd-party vendors of WinRT tablets could bundle a bunch of crap in Desktop mode again?
        anonymfus 14y ago
        No. He mean system tools like Task Manager, File Explorer, Power Shell and apps like Notepad, Paint and Calc.
purplelobster 14y ago
I won't be buying an Surface RT, for the same reason I won't be buying an iPad: it's just too limited, and I don't want two devices that do similar things. I'm extremely interested in the Surface Pro though. If I can dock my Surface Pro to my keyboard, mouse, big screen and speakers, it could replace my current laptop, while being much easier to bring with me. In the end, it will probably be between an Ultrabook like the Lenovo X1 Carbon, or the Surface Pro, with the Surface having a slight upper hand because I can use it as a tablet as well.
dsr12 14y ago
Link to read the review in a single page: http://www.anandtech.com/print/6385 http://www.anandtech.com/print/6385
jtchang 14y ago
I am genuinely excited for Microsoft. The surface is rather refreshing. I generally am not a big tablet user. I find them kind of clunky for getting any real work done. But I do think there probably is a tablet out there for me...I just have to be willing to accept some tradeoffs.
- Mythbusters 14y ago
  Checkout the surface Pro or many other similar products that came out recently (a windows 8 tablet that docks into a keyboard) The only tradeoff there is the smallish screen size and possibly price but those are to be expected I think.
  - coob 14y ago
    That and the fact it has a fan.
  - meaty 14y ago
    Smallish screen size is fine as it can be plugged into another monitor and use either mirroring or dual displays (much as I already do with my ThinkPad).
- digisign 14y ago
  They're for play. The fact you might be able to get a little work done is a side benefit.
  - Tyrannosaurs 14y ago
    I don't think that's what Microsoft are aiming for here - MS Office and a usable separate keyboard doesn't say play to me.
    - rlu 14y ago
      I think the point (directed to you and parent) is that it is for BOTH. That's the whole idea behind "no compromise solution". You can be playing Angry Birds or be browsing the Metro Hacker News app (hypothetical, I don't think there is one yet) or otherwise doing "iPad things" and then the next moment, "click in and do more" to put it in marketing speak :)
zanny 14y ago
My transformer infinity has a better screen (the review even has an entire page that actually reinforced my happiness in getting my tf700) and it has an unlocked bootloader, so if I wanted a productivity notebook (with the dock... which the infinity also has... and it has a micro hdmi port rather than some proprietary thing, but the power dongle is proprietary so its a wash) I could just put an arm compiled Linux distro on it. It actually isn't even bad for typing with the dock in stock android, since home -> icon clicks and alt-tab works like on a desktop OS it works fine for me.
- bergie 14y ago
  I had the Transformer Prime, and used it for some light hacking and conference liveblogging. The main thing keeping me from using it for "real work" was that the keyboard really wasn't too good. I've understood the Infinity has the same keydock as the Prime. But maybe the keys are better now? How is your typing experience?
  - zanny 14y ago
    Its better than pretty much every 10" netbook keyboard I ever used. If you don't like it you can still use a bluetooth keyboard with it.
mtgx 14y ago
So their (real) excuse for using a lower resolution is that they didn't use a more powerful chip? Ok, but the problem remains that they're using a chip that can go in $200 tablets as well, a lower resolution display, and also a much smaller battery than the iPad, and yet it still costs $500. The extra storage is irrelevant, since they need that for cover for the greater size of Windows and Office, and they shouldn't make the user pay for it. Also how do they explain the fact that Google will use a much more powerful chip (Exynos 5 Dual) and a much higher resolution (2560x1600) in their upcoming Nexus 10 tablet, and yet will still cost $500 or less? Not to mention this entire review is not made for the $500 device, but for the $600 device, with they keyboard. It seems Microsoft's fans promote TheVerge's reviews only when it suits them. I think TheVerge's Surface review is a lot more objective: http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3540550/microsoft-surface-review http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3540550/microsoft-surface...
- avolcano 14y ago
  I don't think it's entirely Microsoft fanboys that are trying to champion the Surface. A lot of people still think an iPad can't be used for content creation (not true at all; the thing has supported a Bluetooth keyboard since day one, there's tons of music being made with the thing, there's tons of apps for content creation at this point...) or productivity purposes (a somewhat fair point, but unless Surface somehow takes off, I can guarantee there will be Office for iPad someday). Ask anyone how they can justify spending the same amount of money as an iPad on a tablet that's smaller, with a far worse screen, with almost no ecosystem to speak of, unproven software, and with no accessory ecosystem, and they'll probably tell you "because this one will let me be more productive!" I dunno. I try not to get too negative about products. I've come around on a lot of Android tablets; the Nexus 7 is a genuinely impressive device for $200. But the Surface seems not only woefully underpowered, but with Windows 8, has proven to manage to be cross-contaminating, harming the desktop OS that Microsoft had so finely perfected with Windows 7.
  - polshaw 14y ago
    I don't think surface is perfect, nor does it match the iPad in every area, but a proper kickstand + keyboard/touchpad + office puts it in a completely different league to the iPad in terms of productivity. If you want to work when mobile, this is right up there. It is overpriced, but so is the iPad. As for 'cross contaminating', the convergence of tablet and laptop OSes is inevitable. IMO microsoft would be foolish to ignore it. Their moves toward convergence are also far better than Apples iOS influenced changes to OSX, despite being far more bold.
fidz 14y ago
I am excited with Desktop Tile is also available in Windows RT. I thought it was only available in Windows Pro. So it means i can recompile my apps and run it on Windows RT?
- ygra 14y ago
  No, you cannot. The traditional desktop is reserved for the included applications, i.e. everything standard Windows and Office. It is not available to 3rd-party developers on Windows RT.
gjm11 14y ago
Am I the only person who gets really annoyed with vendors' desire to treat their products' names like personal names with no articles in front? Microsoft: "you can see more, do more and share more with Surface." Apple: "The Retina display on iPad makes everything look crisp and lifelike." It's weird and unnatural, and -- here I may just be being eccentric -- it gives me the feeling that the companies are trying to manipulate me, hoping that if I keep seeing "Surface" instead of "the Surface" and "iPad" instead of "an iPad" some bit of my brain will start treating those product names like personal names and feel warm and fuzzy and friendly towards the products. It's weird the way that Anand goes along with this in his article when he's talking about the Microsoft device ("After living with Surface however, I understand the appeal") but not when he happens to mention the Apple one ("I wouldn’t say that it looks better or worse than the iPad, it’s simply different"). So much so that I almost wonder whether Microsoft made it a condition of providing a review device that the review had to avoid ever saying "the Surface" or "a Surface". As a measure of how unnatural the locution Microsoft's marketing people are trying to push on us is, notice that almost everyone here on HN, commenting on Anand's review that consistently uses MS's preferred form, none the less says "a Surface" or "the Surface" when referring to a particular instance rather than to the brand. [EDITED to add: I am not suggesting that he's showing some kind of deliberate favouritism or that MS asked him not to do the article-dropping thing when referring to competitors' products. I think he says "the iPad" instead of just "iPad" because by now everyone's stopped indulging Apple's marketing department's whims.]
- mgkimsal 14y ago
  context aside, the phrase "the surface" may be meaning a generic surface or a Surface. When I read to myself without the "the", the reading voice reinforces that it's the "MS Surface" product that's being referred to. That's the pro/con of using generic words for products (vs ipad, for example). When reading, and you see the capital, it's easier to determine what is being referred to, but I often hear it being read in a voice as well, and the lack of articles 'helps' in some way.
  - nodata 14y ago
    Even if the product names have an article, you can still read them differently.
saturdaysaint 14y ago
Anand is always interesting, but this is one review that probably merited a lot more discussion of software and value, so I find the consumer site reviews more informative. With the first iteration of a product, the big question in my mind is "will this catch on and will there be a second gen?" and to me the much lauded build quality is just one element of that. Remember, the Zune had great software and hardware. Full Office is indeed a killer app, but $600 (with the necessary cover) is steep when their competition is racing to $200. I'm also interested to see how the size plays in the market. As the first high quality 7" tablets have their first Christmas season, I think the dynamics of the market could shift. Something that fits in a purse is going to be a huge draw for women; something that costs around $300 will put it in kids' price range. Surface might be great on it's own merits, but tech savvy dudes and Excel lovers can't sustain an app ecosystem.
- narag 14y ago
  ...steep when their competition is racing to $200. I've been looking for a tablet with a good keyboard recently. The most similar gadget I found, the Asus Transformer, is by no means racing to $200. What did you had in mind? I'm buying something in two or three months, so I'm genuinely interested. BTW, I don't find the Surface compelling, but that's just another story.
- rlu 14y ago
  What do you think it's competing against? Certainly not a Kindle... Is the $600 price a steep one? I'm not sure. It's the same price as the iPad and not only can you consume/play with it, but you can also do work. This has the potential of replacing your iPad+laptop combo. On the other hand, for $600 you could also buy a mediocre laptop that can run full Windows 7/8. But likely without a touch screen (but win8 works fine without one anyways so whatever). At the end of the day, if your budget is $600 it really comes down to "do you care about tablet use cases". If you do, then buy a win8 device like Surface over an iPad. If you don't then skip this form factor and get yourself a "normal" non-touch laptop with full Windows and likely better hardware. I guess my original meta point was that if this isn't worth $600, then the iPad shouldn't even be worth $500. Re: "but with an iPad you have 250k apps" - sure, but I'm confident that the apps will come to win8. It's a matter of time, and I don't think it will take too long. I expect lot more AAA apps to be released after October 26th.
RandallBrown 14y ago
The surface is a piece of the ecosystem. The integration between Surface, Windows Phone 8, and (what I think is most important) Xbox should be phenomenal. I'm a pretty big Apple fanboy. I have the newest iPhone, iPad and Macbook Pro (until yesterday anyway). The one place Apple hasn't taken over is in my living room. My Xbox still rules there and I don't see Apple overtaking that. If Microsoft can integrate their other products with the excellent living room experience provided by Xbox, I think they can really be successful.
Ingaz 14y ago
I do not understand this device. As tablet it has big weight. As ultrabook - small screen and worse input. (And I don't like keyboard layout shown in pictures) It's not contender for IPad/Android, it's not contender for ultrabooks. Maybe if I had it in my hands - I had another opinion. Now I just don't understand this middle "Microsoft way"

197 points by barista 14y ago

* EDIT: Didn't see the article had more pages. Please disregard my silly comment. I feel a bit dumb, but the control to go to the next page is non-standard and confusing if you ask me: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5owebbhai6oxazt/Screen%20Shot%202012-10-23%20at%207.46.19%20PM.png https://www.dropbox.com/s/5owebbhai6oxazt/Screen%20Shot%2020... This review doesn't say a thing about the device. He doesn't say anything negative, he doesn't say anything positive. He just says it's worth considering, and heavily quotes a random Microsoft exec. He says he "gets it" but doesn't say what that means. I have no idea what the point of the article is, or what information it's supposed to convey. He could have simply said "Microsoft has a tablet." I'd say it was a PR piece if it didn't sound so darn blase on the whole thing, but I guess that echoes the exec he quoted. Is Microsoft's communications strategy simply to convince people not to talk about the features or functions of the Surface?

sp332 14y ago
Snippets from the last page: "As a device, Surface is incredibly well executed. Surface is the most flexible tablet I've ever used. Multitasking, task switching and the ability to have multiple applications active on the screen at once are all big advantages that Microsoft enjoys. For productivity workloads, Surface is without equal in the tablet space. Content consumption is also great on the device. Surface's display isn't industry leading but it's still good. Reading emails, browsing the web flipping through photos and watching videos are all good fits for the platform - just as good as competing solutions from Apple or Google. I would have liked to have seen faster hardware inside, and there are some rough edges that could use smoothing out (e.g. the power connector and HDMI output come to mind) but overall the device is easily in recommendable territory. If you're ok being an early adopter, and ok dealing with the fact that mobile devices are still being significantly revved every year, Surface is worth your consideration. If you've wanted a tablet that could really bridge the content consumption and prodcutivity device, Surface is it."
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arrrg 14y ago
Is it possible you didn’t see that this review has multiple pages? You seem to have only read the introduction and setup (where the tone you encountered isn’t something special: at the start most reviews paint a picture of the environment a product is in and what the company that is selling the product says it wants the product to be).
- andrewljohnson 14y ago
  Correct, my bad!
barista 14y ago
I don't get why you think the article did not say anything about the tablet. It did review and compare various aspects of it such as the performance, display, battery life with other tablets on the market. It did not cover the software in details but I think that is the part of the review. Windows 8 by itself has been covered in detail elsewhere.
mamp 14y ago
I agree, this is unusual for Anandtech. It seems you could summarise the 12 page review as 'meh'. Maybe they didn't have enough time with it to get into any more detailed analysis. Also, I get the impression that Microsoft has been set a lower bar -- almost encouraged for just having a go in this space rather than comparing it to existing products. E.g. how does the Type Cover compare to the range of 3rd party products available for the iPad for < $129? How much better is the Touch Cover to onscreen when taking into account predictive text & auto correct? Not much to go on in this review. Maybe MS haven't given a lot of time for people to spend with the product.
- barista 14y ago
  >> Maybe MS haven't given a lot of time for people to spend with the product. I remember to have read that he was playing with the device for almost 3 weeks. That's seems long enough.
- rossjudson 14y ago
  Any separate typing surface is superior to a touch screen surface. Touch screen keypads cover massive parts of the screen, force constant hand shifts, and constantly reposition content on the screen. Auto-correct and predictive corrections try to cover for problems that shouldn't exist. I fail to see how the review can be characterized as "meh". It comes off as guardedly impressed to me, and definitely looking forward to the next revision of the hardware. Hmm. Just saw a Surface commercial on TV while I was writing this. Looks like the war is a "go". Beneficiaries: Everyone.
  - contextfree 14y ago
    Besides, auto-correct and predictive text can work with physical keyboards too.
    - ygra 14y ago
      They're just not that needed there. Or maybe that needs getting used to and it must never get in the way of normal typing. Although, now that I think of it, Word has auto-corrected common typos for ages now and in more recent versions it never caught something it shouldn't have (unlike Word 97).

hinting 14y ago

AnandTech does a great job with in-depth technical dives, but for general product reviews sites like the Verge seem to do a much better job. http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3540550/microsoft-surface-review http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3540550/microsoft-surface... The promise of the Surface was that it could deliver a best-in-class tablet experience, but then transform into the PC you needed when heavier lifting was required. Instead of putting down my tablet and picking up my laptop, I would just snap on my keyboard and get my work done. But that's not what the Surface offers, at least not in my experience. It does the job of a tablet and the job of a laptop half as well as other devices on the market, and it often makes that job harder, not easier. Instead of being a no-compromise device, it often feels like a more-compromise one.

hackoder 14y ago
Unfortunately it doesn't seem like there is a way to achieve both. If you want a reasonably sized keyboard, the screen will end up being too large (as is the case with Surface). Or if you want a more traditional tablet sized screen, the keyboard will suffer (for e.g. the Transformer Prime).
guelo 14y ago
Their review is more negative but I'm not sure why it's a much better job.
Mythbusters 14y ago
I wonder why the author tried to treat this as a full desktop replacement knowing that this is ARM based unit and hence does not run full windows 8. The Surface Pro is the one that should fir the bill of a tablet that is a laptop replacement. The author is expecting things from the unit that it is not quite designed for.
- tesseractive 14y ago
  It has an awful lot of affordances to make it look like it might be a laptop replacement -- the keyboard covers, the desktop mode, Office. It's obviously not suitable simply as a laptop, nor is it a very credible straight-up replacement for an iPad, at least at this point. So if it was going to succeed at something, the most likely outcome would be as a good-enough laptop replacement and a good-enough tablet replacement, even though it would be a compromise as either. Instead, the reviewer came to the conclusion that it was more of a "neither fish nor fowl" product. Having not had a chance to use one myself, I nevertheless suspect that will be my conclusion when I have a chance to try one out.

mikeevans 14y ago

I can't wait to try one myself. I only wish it was cheaper, mostly because I'm not sure how much value I would get out of it. (I own a laptop and a Nexus 7)

steverb 14y ago
I'm in the same boat. I'm personally holding out for the Surface Pro, but the RT is very tempting.

notatoad 14y ago

From the review: "this isn't an iPad competitor" And yet, Microsoft lifts the embargo on reviews about 6hrs after the release of the new ipad. Fun timing.

solnyshok 14y ago
yep, also noticed this. now reviews are on engadget, techcrunch, anandtech and everywhere else. guess they try to dilute ipad mini pr
- microtherion 14y ago
  I could be mistaken, but my impression was that the surface launch date was set first, review embargoes were timed to that, and, if anything, Apple timed the iPad mini event to step on the Surface launch rather than vice versa.
bergie 14y ago
We're clearly in a this means war situation with all the launches targeting the Christmas shopping season... Surface, WP8, yesterday's iPad announcements, Google's event next week. All of them are clearly timed to try and steal thunder from the others. I suppose the extra viciousness is because the next two quarters may well decide the fate of several major product lines: Android on tablets, Windows on phones, survival of companies like Nokia and Sony's mobile division, ... http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/22/3537380/the-high-stakes-of-holiday-shopping http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/22/3537380/the-high-stakes-o...

tomkinstinch 14y ago

I don't really follow Microsoft news. The last time I heard about a Microsoft Surface product it was the size of a kitchen table. I wonder why they used the same name for this product.

RyJones 14y ago
The already owned the name; unlike Metro. The former Surface product is extremely niche, unlikely to suffer diminished market share due to a name change.
untog 14y ago
Because it's a great name. The previous Surface was never a consumer product (and still lives on with a name I forget) so there's no huge problem outside of tech circles.
- duck 14y ago
  It is now called PixelSense (which is not a great name): http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/pixelsense/default.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/pixelsense/default.aspx
  - untog 14y ago
    Eh, it's a corporate product. Corporate products tend to have stupid MultipleCapitals names, for reasons I do not understand.
  - nsns 14y ago
    ...but it seems some iterations keep the old name, e.g. - http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=226521990 http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=226521990

ChuckMcM 14y ago

This is the best review I've read so far. I agree with the reviewer in that I've had the same sort of feeling that Microsoft doesn't really 'get' it, but phrasing it as their 'perspective' on the market is exactly right. The first time Microsoft tried to do a 'tablet' aka the 'tablet pc' too much 'pc' and not enough 'tablet'. This seems to have moved in the spectrum closer to 'tablet' but the PC roots are still showing. I want this to be successful because I would love something like it with a bit 'denser' screen and flexibility. I wonder if they tried a keyboard with a fold out mouse like ginormous scroll area. I really like the fit and finish though. That is some awesome tech right there.

Mythbusters 14y ago
I guess the PC roots showing is actually the intent of the design. I have used Windows 8 and I can only imagine how much it will feel natural on a device like this. The metro UI invites touch interaction and the older office like apps will work best with mouse and keyboard. I'd prefer the surface with full windows though so that I can use all my legacy apps as well.
stcredzero 14y ago
> The first time Microsoft tried to do a 'tablet' aka the 'tablet pc' too much 'pc' and not enough 'tablet'. This seems to have moved in the spectrum closer to 'tablet' but the PC roots are still showing. Basically, they've gone and perfected the OQO. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OQO http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OQO Pretty soon, we'll have 512GB flash drives in these things. Most of us won't have a reason for an old fashioned PC. We'll just have different interface form factors.
anigbrowl 14y ago
If the x86 version has sufficient horsepower, they could present the iPad with a serious high-end challenge, because there's a lot of software I like on my Windows box that I'd love to be able to use in a tablet environment (without needing any more functionality than mouse emulation), not to mention a goodly number of USB devices that interface with same. That would substantially reduce my iPad envy.

lambda 14y ago

This is not a very favorable review. While it seems to be trying to spin in a positive direction, the fact that the first several paragraphs are about how Microsoft wanted to control the message, and not about how great a product this is, are not encouraging. Then there's a lot of hemming an hawing over how there's no perfect solution, and it doesn't run Windows applications. This was not enough to convince me to read the rest of the review.

joshma 14y ago
How can you attempt to summarize a review as "not very favorable" when you haven't been "convinced" to read the rest of it? At least read the closing paragraph if you're not going to bother spending more time: "If you're ok being an early adopter, and ok dealing with the fact that mobile devices are still being significantly revved every year, Surface is worth your consideration. If you've wanted a tablet that could really bridge the content consumption and productivity device, Surface is it." If anything, this review seemed to lean positive. I wouldn't say it was gushing with love, but it's certainly left me with a solid impression of the hardware and a sense that the Surface won't be a complete flop. The mix of damning judgement and deliberate ignorance here is amusing.
Mythbusters 14y ago
This one focuses on the hardware for the most part. Which I think is quite comparable to other options if not favorable. When it comes to Windows 8 though, its a personal taste. I love it even on my non-touch laptop and am looking forward to using it on a touch based laptop when I upgrade my current machine.
sremani 14y ago
Translation... I already own an IPad (may be several of them), I am insecure to read about other options out there because their advantages may make my device look like lacking and hence I become a stupid consumer. For me to be considered a smart consumer, I should constantly remind the rest of the population how awesome my IPad is.

eric-hu 14y ago

>> The chassis is built out of an injection molded Magnesium... Would someone more qualified than I comment on this? I seem to remember from high school that magnesium is highly flammable. Its autoignition temperature is fairly high at 473C/883F, but I could see a li-ion battery malfunction leading to a pretty nasty fire hazard. Is there some special process that can be applied to magnesium to ensure that this product doesn't turn into a flare?

pyre 14y ago
I would venture a guess that it's not pure Magnesium, but an alloy of some sort.
minikomi 14y ago
One process is described on wikipedia, using inert gas to prevent ignition[1]: For magnesium alloys, thixomolding uses a machine similar to injection molding. In a single step process, room temperature magnesium alloy chips are fed into the back end of a heated barrel through a volumetric feeder. The barrel is maintained under an argon atmosphere to prevent oxidation of the magnesium chips. A screw feeder located inside the barrel feeds the magnesium chips forward as they are heated into the semi-solid temperature range. The screw rotation provides the necessary shearing force to generate the globular structure needed for semi-solid casting. Once enough slurry has accumulated, the screw moves forward to inject the slurry into a steel die. [1] http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-solid_metal_casting#Thixomolding http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-solid_metal_casting#Thix...
kanwisher 14y ago
I'm just going to leave this here... Burning a NeXT Cube (Magnesium) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkvQ-BJD2rU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkvQ-BJD2rU
- xentronium 14y ago
  He used thermite to burn it, so I guess it's not trivial.

kuviaq 14y ago

"The biggest issue I have with recommending Surface is that you know the next iteration of the device is likely going to be appreciably better, with faster/more efficient hardware and perhaps even a better chassis. " Why call this out when it is true for every single piece of consumer hardware these days?

nacs 14y ago
He's basically stating that the Surface has "version 1.0" issues (in hardware and software) that he hopes will go away with the "1.1"/"2.0" release of Surface..
- Jare 14y ago
  iPad 3 owners can confirm that hardware obsolescence is not purely a matter of "1.0" issues.
  - potatolicious 14y ago
    Yes, but your iPad 3 is still a perfectly good device with few thorny, glaring, obvious omissions. I think that's the point the statement is trying to make: that even just looking at the device there are enough things that are glaring omissions and misses that you will feel shortchanged when they're inevitably fixed in v2. I feel the same way about the iPad mini. The lack of a retina display in this day and age feels like a very obvious miss, and you know they will fix this next year, which makes buying it now seem like a poor proposition.
    - Jare 14y ago
      In my opinion, the lack of hardware to match at Retina resolution the rendering capabilities of the iPad 2 was a pretty HUGE miss on the iPad 3. I can't see anything so obviously missing from the Surface.
      - ygra 14y ago
        Read the article, it covers that point. If MS would have wanted to compete on that front it would have either needed to sacrifice graphics performance, or go Apple's route and design a custom SoC. One isn't acceptable and the other probably not feasible given the resources they wanted to invest.

blinkingled 14y ago

From the wired review : Half the apps pre-installed on the Surface RT launches in the classic desktop interface, most notably Microsoft Office, where the smaller user elements do not play nicely with the touch interface. From AnandTech's review just typing into Office takes 50% CPU. I had totally expected Microsoft will get Office right - touch friendly, not relying on classic Desktop and relatively bloat free. If integrated well with the tablet interface it would become a better productivity machine for Enterprise users than competition's offerings. With what is being said of Office RT, I don't see what the selling point of Surface is - It is Windows but can't run Windows apps, it is a tablet but needs to switch to classic to run a so-so version of touch-unfriendly Office (Do I get Outlook with it?). May be it will be a better story with Surface Pro.

amvp 14y ago
I'm a little confused. I thought windows RT didn't have a 'classic mode' - and all apps were metro-style?
- smacktoward 14y ago
  All third-party RT apps have to be Metro-style. Microsoft granted themselves an exception to that rule for Office RT and IE.
  - contextfree 14y ago
    More precisely, the exception is for preinstalled apps.
    - ygra 14y ago
      So 3rd-party vendors of WinRT tablets could bundle a bunch of crap in Desktop mode again?
      - anonymfus 14y ago
        No. He mean system tools like Task Manager, File Explorer, Power Shell and apps like Notepad, Paint and Calc.

purplelobster 14y ago

I won't be buying an Surface RT, for the same reason I won't be buying an iPad: it's just too limited, and I don't want two devices that do similar things. I'm extremely interested in the Surface Pro though. If I can dock my Surface Pro to my keyboard, mouse, big screen and speakers, it could replace my current laptop, while being much easier to bring with me. In the end, it will probably be between an Ultrabook like the Lenovo X1 Carbon, or the Surface Pro, with the Surface having a slight upper hand because I can use it as a tablet as well.

dsr12 14y ago

Link to read the review in a single page: http://www.anandtech.com/print/6385 http://www.anandtech.com/print/6385

jtchang 14y ago

I am genuinely excited for Microsoft. The surface is rather refreshing. I generally am not a big tablet user. I find them kind of clunky for getting any real work done. But I do think there probably is a tablet out there for me...I just have to be willing to accept some tradeoffs.

Mythbusters 14y ago
Checkout the surface Pro or many other similar products that came out recently (a windows 8 tablet that docks into a keyboard) The only tradeoff there is the smallish screen size and possibly price but those are to be expected I think.
- coob 14y ago
  That and the fact it has a fan.
- meaty 14y ago
  Smallish screen size is fine as it can be plugged into another monitor and use either mirroring or dual displays (much as I already do with my ThinkPad).
digisign 14y ago
They're for play. The fact you might be able to get a little work done is a side benefit.
- Tyrannosaurs 14y ago
  I don't think that's what Microsoft are aiming for here - MS Office and a usable separate keyboard doesn't say play to me.
  - rlu 14y ago
    I think the point (directed to you and parent) is that it is for BOTH. That's the whole idea behind "no compromise solution". You can be playing Angry Birds or be browsing the Metro Hacker News app (hypothetical, I don't think there is one yet) or otherwise doing "iPad things" and then the next moment, "click in and do more" to put it in marketing speak :)

zanny 14y ago

My transformer infinity has a better screen (the review even has an entire page that actually reinforced my happiness in getting my tf700) and it has an unlocked bootloader, so if I wanted a productivity notebook (with the dock... which the infinity also has... and it has a micro hdmi port rather than some proprietary thing, but the power dongle is proprietary so its a wash) I could just put an arm compiled Linux distro on it. It actually isn't even bad for typing with the dock in stock android, since home -> icon clicks and alt-tab works like on a desktop OS it works fine for me.

bergie 14y ago
I had the Transformer Prime, and used it for some light hacking and conference liveblogging. The main thing keeping me from using it for "real work" was that the keyboard really wasn't too good. I've understood the Infinity has the same keydock as the Prime. But maybe the keys are better now? How is your typing experience?
- zanny 14y ago
  Its better than pretty much every 10" netbook keyboard I ever used. If you don't like it you can still use a bluetooth keyboard with it.

mtgx 14y ago

So their (real) excuse for using a lower resolution is that they didn't use a more powerful chip? Ok, but the problem remains that they're using a chip that can go in $200 tablets as well, a lower resolution display, and also a much smaller battery than the iPad, and yet it still costs $500. The extra storage is irrelevant, since they need that for cover for the greater size of Windows and Office, and they shouldn't make the user pay for it. Also how do they explain the fact that Google will use a much more powerful chip (Exynos 5 Dual) and a much higher resolution (2560x1600) in their upcoming Nexus 10 tablet, and yet will still cost $500 or less? Not to mention this entire review is not made for the $500 device, but for the $600 device, with they keyboard. It seems Microsoft's fans promote TheVerge's reviews only when it suits them. I think TheVerge's Surface review is a lot more objective: http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3540550/microsoft-surface-review http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3540550/microsoft-surface...

avolcano 14y ago
I don't think it's entirely Microsoft fanboys that are trying to champion the Surface. A lot of people still think an iPad can't be used for content creation (not true at all; the thing has supported a Bluetooth keyboard since day one, there's tons of music being made with the thing, there's tons of apps for content creation at this point...) or productivity purposes (a somewhat fair point, but unless Surface somehow takes off, I can guarantee there will be Office for iPad someday). Ask anyone how they can justify spending the same amount of money as an iPad on a tablet that's smaller, with a far worse screen, with almost no ecosystem to speak of, unproven software, and with no accessory ecosystem, and they'll probably tell you "because this one will let me be more productive!" I dunno. I try not to get too negative about products. I've come around on a lot of Android tablets; the Nexus 7 is a genuinely impressive device for $200. But the Surface seems not only woefully underpowered, but with Windows 8, has proven to manage to be cross-contaminating, harming the desktop OS that Microsoft had so finely perfected with Windows 7.
- polshaw 14y ago
  I don't think surface is perfect, nor does it match the iPad in every area, but a proper kickstand + keyboard/touchpad + office puts it in a completely different league to the iPad in terms of productivity. If you want to work when mobile, this is right up there. It is overpriced, but so is the iPad. As for 'cross contaminating', the convergence of tablet and laptop OSes is inevitable. IMO microsoft would be foolish to ignore it. Their moves toward convergence are also far better than Apples iOS influenced changes to OSX, despite being far more bold.

fidz 14y ago

I am excited with Desktop Tile is also available in Windows RT. I thought it was only available in Windows Pro. So it means i can recompile my apps and run it on Windows RT?

ygra 14y ago
No, you cannot. The traditional desktop is reserved for the included applications, i.e. everything standard Windows and Office. It is not available to 3rd-party developers on Windows RT.

gjm11 14y ago

Am I the only person who gets really annoyed with vendors' desire to treat their products' names like personal names with no articles in front? Microsoft: "you can see more, do more and share more with Surface." Apple: "The Retina display on iPad makes everything look crisp and lifelike." It's weird and unnatural, and -- here I may just be being eccentric -- it gives me the feeling that the companies are trying to manipulate me, hoping that if I keep seeing "Surface" instead of "the Surface" and "iPad" instead of "an iPad" some bit of my brain will start treating those product names like personal names and feel warm and fuzzy and friendly towards the products. It's weird the way that Anand goes along with this in his article when he's talking about the Microsoft device ("After living with Surface however, I understand the appeal") but not when he happens to mention the Apple one ("I wouldn’t say that it looks better or worse than the iPad, it’s simply different"). So much so that I almost wonder whether Microsoft made it a condition of providing a review device that the review had to avoid ever saying "the Surface" or "a Surface". As a measure of how unnatural the locution Microsoft's marketing people are trying to push on us is, notice that almost everyone here on HN, commenting on Anand's review that consistently uses MS's preferred form, none the less says "a Surface" or "the Surface" when referring to a particular instance rather than to the brand. [EDITED to add: I am not suggesting that he's showing some kind of deliberate favouritism or that MS asked him not to do the article-dropping thing when referring to competitors' products. I think he says "the iPad" instead of just "iPad" because by now everyone's stopped indulging Apple's marketing department's whims.]

mgkimsal 14y ago
context aside, the phrase "the surface" may be meaning a generic surface or a Surface. When I read to myself without the "the", the reading voice reinforces that it's the "MS Surface" product that's being referred to. That's the pro/con of using generic words for products (vs ipad, for example). When reading, and you see the capital, it's easier to determine what is being referred to, but I often hear it being read in a voice as well, and the lack of articles 'helps' in some way.
- nodata 14y ago
  Even if the product names have an article, you can still read them differently.

saturdaysaint 14y ago

Anand is always interesting, but this is one review that probably merited a lot more discussion of software and value, so I find the consumer site reviews more informative. With the first iteration of a product, the big question in my mind is "will this catch on and will there be a second gen?" and to me the much lauded build quality is just one element of that. Remember, the Zune had great software and hardware. Full Office is indeed a killer app, but $600 (with the necessary cover) is steep when their competition is racing to $200. I'm also interested to see how the size plays in the market. As the first high quality 7" tablets have their first Christmas season, I think the dynamics of the market could shift. Something that fits in a purse is going to be a huge draw for women; something that costs around $300 will put it in kids' price range. Surface might be great on it's own merits, but tech savvy dudes and Excel lovers can't sustain an app ecosystem.

narag 14y ago
...steep when their competition is racing to $200. I've been looking for a tablet with a good keyboard recently. The most similar gadget I found, the Asus Transformer, is by no means racing to $200. What did you had in mind? I'm buying something in two or three months, so I'm genuinely interested. BTW, I don't find the Surface compelling, but that's just another story.
rlu 14y ago
What do you think it's competing against? Certainly not a Kindle... Is the $600 price a steep one? I'm not sure. It's the same price as the iPad and not only can you consume/play with it, but you can also do work. This has the potential of replacing your iPad+laptop combo. On the other hand, for $600 you could also buy a mediocre laptop that can run full Windows 7/8. But likely without a touch screen (but win8 works fine without one anyways so whatever). At the end of the day, if your budget is $600 it really comes down to "do you care about tablet use cases". If you do, then buy a win8 device like Surface over an iPad. If you don't then skip this form factor and get yourself a "normal" non-touch laptop with full Windows and likely better hardware. I guess my original meta point was that if this isn't worth $600, then the iPad shouldn't even be worth $500. Re: "but with an iPad you have 250k apps" - sure, but I'm confident that the apps will come to win8. It's a matter of time, and I don't think it will take too long. I expect lot more AAA apps to be released after October 26th.

RandallBrown 14y ago

The surface is a piece of the ecosystem. The integration between Surface, Windows Phone 8, and (what I think is most important) Xbox should be phenomenal. I'm a pretty big Apple fanboy. I have the newest iPhone, iPad and Macbook Pro (until yesterday anyway). The one place Apple hasn't taken over is in my living room. My Xbox still rules there and I don't see Apple overtaking that. If Microsoft can integrate their other products with the excellent living room experience provided by Xbox, I think they can really be successful.

Ingaz 14y ago

I do not understand this device. As tablet it has big weight. As ultrabook - small screen and worse input. (And I don't like keyboard layout shown in pictures) It's not contender for IPad/Android, it's not contender for ultrabooks. Maybe if I had it in my hands - I had another opinion. Now I just don't understand this middle "Microsoft way"