4 ms·

My family came to the US via Ellis Island. Compared to what people have to do today, their legal path to US citizenship was relatively easy. I see no reason tha

by Apreche 8mo ago

My family came to the US via Ellis Island. Compared to what people have to do today, their legal path to US citizenship was relatively easy. I see no reason that becoming a citizen today should be any more difficult today than it was in the early 20th century. Open a 21st century equivalent of Ellis Island, and let people become citizens.

csmpltn 8mo ago
Your family had to leave everything behind, risking a weeks-long journey at sea costing them everything they ever had, going into the unknown - at a time where nobody could travel. The US was not as rich, or built, or anything. People today get a 50$ plane ticket and move straight to the Bay Area. You don't see why things need to change?
- tclancy 8mo ago
  Buddy, what are you on about? This sounds just like all those welfare queens in Cadillacs GHW Bush was telling us about.
  - hn_acker 8mo ago
    > This sounds just like all those welfare queens in Cadillacs GHW Bush was telling us about. I don't think George H. W. Bush did that. Do you mean Ronald Reagan [1]? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_queen#Origin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_queen#Origin
    - tclancy 8mo ago
      Interesting. I think the senior Bush must have used it during the '84 campaign at the RNC? My memory is slipping plus I would have been like 8. But I was a nerd who followed politics for a while before that.
- astura 8mo ago
  Where can I buy a international plane ticket for $50 ?
  - hagbard_c 8mo ago
    With Ryanair, Easyjet and other similar carriers. Not to the Bay area though, at least not yet.
- hn_acker 8mo ago
  > People today get a 50$ plane ticket and move straight to the Bay Area. > You don't see why things need to change? Are you asserting that the current system of legal immigration needs to change, with an unsubstantiated example of a rare $50 dollar plane ticket as if people can easily move to the US by plane? Do those people leave behind most of their belongings, or do they instead make multiple plane trips to move them? And what about all of the paperwork and approval and unpredictable waiting [1]? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46912126 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46912126
  - csmpltn 8mo ago
    I'm talking about maintaining an immigration system which is consistent with the realities of the time we live in.
    - hn_acker 8mo ago
      I took issue with the specific example you used ("get a 50$ plane ticket and move straight to the Bay Area") because it was too reductive (and unsubstantiated) to represent "the realities of" the immigration system "of the time we live in" in a way that would let me "see why things need to change". I think you should have fleshed out your example or chosen a better one.
roenxi 8mo ago
The growth of a welfare system seems like the major change. How does that plan interact with the welfare system? If someone is impoverished in Asia can they get a plane ticket to the US and expect to eventually be entitled to a state-sponsored minimum standard of living? Maybe healthcare if the left's plans for that get through eventually?
- bubblethink 8mo ago
  I've heard this argument going back to Milton Friedman, but the immigration discourse these days is quite detached from any economic concerns. Forget impoverished people; there is rabid opposition to pretty much all immigration including, for example, investor or employment categories. It's a lot more tribal than rational.
  - hikkerl 8mo ago
    [flagged]
    - disgruntledphd2 8mo ago
      > With recent legislation here in Australia Are you of Aboriginal extraction? Otherwise, I'm not sure an ethnic homeland for you would be Australia, right? This stuff is so weird, as basically all humans migrated to wherever they are now. Like, I'm pretty sure that I have Celtic, Norman, Viking and other ancestors, despite my official ancestry being Irish (and all of my last 3-4 generations being born in Ireland). Is it culture? That would seem to be what people are actually looking for, and I can definitely see the appeal, but culture is something that is generated from interaction with other members of a culture, and isn't dependent on genetics (consider how you or I might behave in OpenAI vs Anthropic vs Goldman Sachs).
      - eudamoniac 8mo ago
        Yes it is culture. The desire for an ethnostate is a proxy desire for a monoculture, somewhat easier to implement because it's easier to see someone is white than to see their behavior patterns. There are also studies that show most people have subconscious tension among other races even from the same culture, though. But the outright desire for an ethnostate or a monoculture are both politically untenable in the West. Never mind that every country we idolize, e.g. Japan, Scandinavia, are essentially that. America is not a good candidate for that for various reasons, but I see no reason that Denmark or Japan shouldn't be able to codify their ethnic makeup and adjust immigration policy accordingly. As a Korean, it is really nice to visit Korea and feel among 'my people', even though culturally I'm an American. I've heard very similar things from my white friends who move to Utah or visit Scandinavia. It's a feeling that seems to be deeply embedded in the lizard brain, to be among your tribe, identified visually and then culturally. Countries have the right to cultivate this feeling among their citizens.
rayiner 8mo ago
[flagged]
readthenotes1 8mo ago
Nowadays, there's both welfare and voting concerns that weren't the same in the 1800s. If the USA offered food and shelter security, billions would come in

by Apreche 8mo ago

csmpltn 8mo ago

Your family had to leave everything behind, risking a weeks-long journey at sea costing them everything they ever had, going into the unknown - at a time where nobody could travel. The US was not as rich, or built, or anything. People today get a 50$ plane ticket and move straight to the Bay Area. You don't see why things need to change?

tclancy 8mo ago
Buddy, what are you on about? This sounds just like all those welfare queens in Cadillacs GHW Bush was telling us about.
- hn_acker 8mo ago
  > This sounds just like all those welfare queens in Cadillacs GHW Bush was telling us about. I don't think George H. W. Bush did that. Do you mean Ronald Reagan [1]? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_queen#Origin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_queen#Origin
  - tclancy 8mo ago
    Interesting. I think the senior Bush must have used it during the '84 campaign at the RNC? My memory is slipping plus I would have been like 8. But I was a nerd who followed politics for a while before that.
astura 8mo ago
Where can I buy a international plane ticket for $50 ?
- hagbard_c 8mo ago
  With Ryanair, Easyjet and other similar carriers. Not to the Bay area though, at least not yet.
hn_acker 8mo ago
> People today get a 50$ plane ticket and move straight to the Bay Area. > You don't see why things need to change? Are you asserting that the current system of legal immigration needs to change, with an unsubstantiated example of a rare $50 dollar plane ticket as if people can easily move to the US by plane? Do those people leave behind most of their belongings, or do they instead make multiple plane trips to move them? And what about all of the paperwork and approval and unpredictable waiting [1]? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46912126 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46912126
- csmpltn 8mo ago
  I'm talking about maintaining an immigration system which is consistent with the realities of the time we live in.
  - hn_acker 8mo ago
    I took issue with the specific example you used ("get a 50$ plane ticket and move straight to the Bay Area") because it was too reductive (and unsubstantiated) to represent "the realities of" the immigration system "of the time we live in" in a way that would let me "see why things need to change". I think you should have fleshed out your example or chosen a better one.

roenxi 8mo ago

The growth of a welfare system seems like the major change. How does that plan interact with the welfare system? If someone is impoverished in Asia can they get a plane ticket to the US and expect to eventually be entitled to a state-sponsored minimum standard of living? Maybe healthcare if the left's plans for that get through eventually?

bubblethink 8mo ago
I've heard this argument going back to Milton Friedman, but the immigration discourse these days is quite detached from any economic concerns. Forget impoverished people; there is rabid opposition to pretty much all immigration including, for example, investor or employment categories. It's a lot more tribal than rational.
- hikkerl 8mo ago
  [flagged]
  - disgruntledphd2 8mo ago
    > With recent legislation here in Australia Are you of Aboriginal extraction? Otherwise, I'm not sure an ethnic homeland for you would be Australia, right? This stuff is so weird, as basically all humans migrated to wherever they are now. Like, I'm pretty sure that I have Celtic, Norman, Viking and other ancestors, despite my official ancestry being Irish (and all of my last 3-4 generations being born in Ireland). Is it culture? That would seem to be what people are actually looking for, and I can definitely see the appeal, but culture is something that is generated from interaction with other members of a culture, and isn't dependent on genetics (consider how you or I might behave in OpenAI vs Anthropic vs Goldman Sachs).
    - eudamoniac 8mo ago
      Yes it is culture. The desire for an ethnostate is a proxy desire for a monoculture, somewhat easier to implement because it's easier to see someone is white than to see their behavior patterns. There are also studies that show most people have subconscious tension among other races even from the same culture, though. But the outright desire for an ethnostate or a monoculture are both politically untenable in the West. Never mind that every country we idolize, e.g. Japan, Scandinavia, are essentially that. America is not a good candidate for that for various reasons, but I see no reason that Denmark or Japan shouldn't be able to codify their ethnic makeup and adjust immigration policy accordingly. As a Korean, it is really nice to visit Korea and feel among 'my people', even though culturally I'm an American. I've heard very similar things from my white friends who move to Utah or visit Scandinavia. It's a feeling that seems to be deeply embedded in the lizard brain, to be among your tribe, identified visually and then culturally. Countries have the right to cultivate this feeling among their citizens.

rayiner 8mo ago

[flagged]

readthenotes1 8mo ago

Nowadays, there's both welfare and voting concerns that weren't the same in the 1800s. If the USA offered food and shelter security, billions would come in