3 ms·
I know we're not supposed to talk about it, but what in the world is happening to this site? Mistaking 'Antifa' for 'the concept of opposing fascism' is not the
by ToValueFunfetti 8mo ago
I know we're not supposed to talk about it, but what in the world is happening to this site? Mistaking 'Antifa' for 'the concept of opposing fascism' is not the kind of failure mode I expect here. And this kind of thing has become endemic lately- emotive noise and sarcastic dunks drowning out substance in every thread, especially since the beginning of December. Or am I just imagining this?
- GuinansEyebrows 8mo ago> Mistaking 'Antifa' for 'the concept of opposing fascism' that's literally what it means in theory and in practice
- ToValueFunfetti 8mo ago'The concept of opposing fascism' doesn't mean anything in practice. You have to implement practice around it, you can't just literally do a concept!
- GuinansEyebrows 8mo agoyou say that as if people are not actively physically opposing fascism in deed in the united states right now!
- ToValueFunfetti 8mo agoBy physically opposing fascism, I assume you mean they are taking specific practical actions rather than becoming one with the platonic concept of opposition to fascism. It may seem an obvious or insignificant point, but it is critical here. If they physically oppose fascism by following and filming ICE, I'm very much on board. If they oppose it by molotoving innocent local government buildings, I am against. If both of these actions are the concept of opposing fascism, what does it mean to be against that? Antifa are belligerants. They undermine protests by having the maturity to die for a cause but not to live for one. One can be against that without being fascist.
- lazyasciiart 8mo agoSo your contention is that people who are following and filming ICE cannot be considered 'antifa' because you have decided that 'antifa' means 'people engaging in bad violence'.
- otikik 8mo agoFighting fascist is the primary way to oppose them. The fighting bit often requires violence. That's what it takes, because it involves fighting a group of people that are not a peaceful bunch and have very violent intentions.
- ToValueFunfetti 8mo agoYes, exactly my point. And once you are picking targets and taking violent actions, you can no longer excuse your aim and your violence by saying your heart is in the right place. Antifa has, for many decades, done wrong actions with good intentions. You can oppose them without being fascist.
- direwolf20 8mo agoAre you saying that if someone punches a Nazi (or let's say Hitler himself) in the face, they're a bad person?
- ToValueFunfetti 8mo agoOf course I'm not saying this! There's no way to read what I said and get this out unless you put it in! You're supposed to be charitable here and you are actively doing the opposite. If you punch John Doe in the face becaune you think he's Hitler; if you torture Hitler's parents just to stick it to him, yes, you are in the wrong.
- donkeybeer 8mo agoIt works. It worked in WW2. Were the Allied soldiers fascist?
- ToValueFunfetti 8mo agoIf they genocided German citizens, yes! We still argue today about whether Hiroshima and Nagasaki were justified; nobody argues they weren't antifascist.
- 8mo ago
- direwolf20 8mo agoOf course it means something. It means the concept of opposing fascism...
- wat10000 8mo agoWhat is Antifa, then?