4 ms·

Yeah and even the engineers and architects have no influence on the purchase decision. If you ask us we wouldn't buy Microsoft. But they're really good at rubb

Yeah and even the engineers and architects have no influence on the purchase decision. If you ask us we wouldn't buy Microsoft. But they're really good at rubbing shoulders with the CIOs and convincing them their stuff isn't the mediocre trash it really is.

PaulHoule 9mo ago
It's a story in Germany all the time that some open source zealots get a town government to switch to an off-brand office suite which is so bad that the government worker's union goes on strike to get Microsoft Office back.
- stock_toaster 9mo ago
  Most people are just highly resistant to change, even change for the better.
  - outside1234 9mo ago
    Ok, but let's be fair. Libre Office et al are terrible.
    - olyjohn 9mo ago
      Its really not that bad. I used to use it at work all the time. I did word processing, spreadsheets and presentations all the time with it. Maybe not as powerful as Excel, but I was never really a power user. But then again I never saw any spreadsheets that anybody used that were particularly complex.
    - syockit 9mo ago
      We have OnlyOffice as an alternative today. Personally I find the UI quite pleasing. But lately I haven't had any need to use office suite at home so I don't really use it so I have yet to find anything to complain (meanwhile, LibreOffice was horrible, while Office 365 was bearable until you stuff too many things in the equation editor).
    - speed_spread 9mo ago
      At this point, LibreOffice is much better than whatever Microsoft now sells as an office suite.
    - jamesnorden 9mo ago
      Doesn't sound fair at all. What's so "terrible" about it in its current form?
- jetbalsa 9mo ago
  Which one did they switch to?
  - PaulHoule 9mo ago
    Here's a case of a recent one which is early in the cycle https://www.pcmag.com/news/german-province-ditches-microsoft-office-windows-for-open-source-alternatives?test_uuid=04IpBmWGZleS0I0J3epvMrC&test_variant=B https://www.pcmag.com/news/german-province-ditches-microsoft...
    - wolvoleo 9mo ago
      LibreOffice isn't bad at all.
      - simonask 9mo ago
        LibreOffice is catastrophically bad. It is slow, buggy, and everything it does is either pointlessly emulating a bad product, or pointlessly going against expectations. It exists for one reason only, which is OSS fervor. Great, but that doesn’t lead to great design.
        wolvoleo 9mo ago
        I don't agree, I use it all the time. I never use the 'real' office at home, though I do at work. And I'm really happy with it. It works fine, it's pretty light and it runs on every OS without me having to use a substandard web version. I understand their copying the MS Office look and feel because that muscle memory is key to converting users. I like the way they didn't go all-in on those ribbons which have always been pretty terrible. In that sense I think the biggest issues with the product is that it's taking so many cues from MS Office which on its own is pretty terrible but has grown to be abundant. I think the whole office workflow is grossly outdated anyway. Excel is mostly misused as a pisspoor database which it deeply sucks at because it doesn't offer any way to safeguard data integrity. What MS should do is overhaul Access completely to make users grok it better. But they don't care. Word docs are still full of weird template issues, PowerPoint still uses the old overhead projector transparent slide paradigm. What it really needs is someone to look at this without any of the 1980s baggage and come up with tools for workflow problems from this century with techniques that fit this century. Adding an AI clippy like MS has done does not cut it at all. But it does mean having to chip away at the entrenched market position of office, that's the problem. Microsoft stops innovating when they've cornered the market, just like they did with internet explorer. Someone has to do a chrome on office, but it will need someone with a big bag of money. Not an open source project run on a shoestring. So yeah I think LibreOffice is not great but the not great bits are copied from MS Office because they simply have no alternative.
- senko 9mo ago
  The unironic use of "off brand office suite" here is hysterically tragic. Also, the productivity suite formerly known as Office is these days called "365 Copilot".
- direwolf20 9mo ago
  You mean Munich, and Microsoft bribed them millions of dollars and a HQ relocation to put Microsoft Office back.

PaulHoule 9mo ago

It's a story in Germany all the time that some open source zealots get a town government to switch to an off-brand office suite which is so bad that the government worker's union goes on strike to get Microsoft Office back.

stock_toaster 9mo ago
Most people are just highly resistant to change, even change for the better.
- outside1234 9mo ago
  Ok, but let's be fair. Libre Office et al are terrible.
  - olyjohn 9mo ago
    Its really not that bad. I used to use it at work all the time. I did word processing, spreadsheets and presentations all the time with it. Maybe not as powerful as Excel, but I was never really a power user. But then again I never saw any spreadsheets that anybody used that were particularly complex.
  - syockit 9mo ago
    We have OnlyOffice as an alternative today. Personally I find the UI quite pleasing. But lately I haven't had any need to use office suite at home so I don't really use it so I have yet to find anything to complain (meanwhile, LibreOffice was horrible, while Office 365 was bearable until you stuff too many things in the equation editor).
  - speed_spread 9mo ago
    At this point, LibreOffice is much better than whatever Microsoft now sells as an office suite.
  - jamesnorden 9mo ago
    Doesn't sound fair at all. What's so "terrible" about it in its current form?
jetbalsa 9mo ago
Which one did they switch to?
- PaulHoule 9mo ago
  Here's a case of a recent one which is early in the cycle https://www.pcmag.com/news/german-province-ditches-microsoft-office-windows-for-open-source-alternatives?test_uuid=04IpBmWGZleS0I0J3epvMrC&test_variant=B https://www.pcmag.com/news/german-province-ditches-microsoft...
  - wolvoleo 9mo ago
    LibreOffice isn't bad at all.
    - simonask 9mo ago
      LibreOffice is catastrophically bad. It is slow, buggy, and everything it does is either pointlessly emulating a bad product, or pointlessly going against expectations. It exists for one reason only, which is OSS fervor. Great, but that doesn’t lead to great design.
      - wolvoleo 9mo ago
        I don't agree, I use it all the time. I never use the 'real' office at home, though I do at work. And I'm really happy with it. It works fine, it's pretty light and it runs on every OS without me having to use a substandard web version. I understand their copying the MS Office look and feel because that muscle memory is key to converting users. I like the way they didn't go all-in on those ribbons which have always been pretty terrible. In that sense I think the biggest issues with the product is that it's taking so many cues from MS Office which on its own is pretty terrible but has grown to be abundant. I think the whole office workflow is grossly outdated anyway. Excel is mostly misused as a pisspoor database which it deeply sucks at because it doesn't offer any way to safeguard data integrity. What MS should do is overhaul Access completely to make users grok it better. But they don't care. Word docs are still full of weird template issues, PowerPoint still uses the old overhead projector transparent slide paradigm. What it really needs is someone to look at this without any of the 1980s baggage and come up with tools for workflow problems from this century with techniques that fit this century. Adding an AI clippy like MS has done does not cut it at all. But it does mean having to chip away at the entrenched market position of office, that's the problem. Microsoft stops innovating when they've cornered the market, just like they did with internet explorer. Someone has to do a chrome on office, but it will need someone with a big bag of money. Not an open source project run on a shoestring. So yeah I think LibreOffice is not great but the not great bits are copied from MS Office because they simply have no alternative.
senko 9mo ago
The unironic use of "off brand office suite" here is hysterically tragic. Also, the productivity suite formerly known as Office is these days called "365 Copilot".
direwolf20 9mo ago
You mean Munich, and Microsoft bribed them millions of dollars and a HQ relocation to put Microsoft Office back.