5 ms·

Interesting article, but immediately ran into one of my pet peeves: > The work is published in the Journal of Studies on Alcohol and Drugs. "Alcohol and drugs

Interesting article, but immediately ran into one of my pet peeves: > The work is published in the Journal of Studies on Alcohol and Drugs. "Alcohol and drugs" is like saying "beef and meat".

hippo22 8mo ago
When you hear someone say “I do drugs” do you imagine them sitting at a bar to have a drink? Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.
- superkuh 8mo ago
  We know. But it's a problem because alcohol is one of the most dangerous and damaging drugs. It's basically just society grandfathering it in and all of us living in a state of cognitive dissonance. re: the article itself, they concentrate only on brain regions which have high density of CB1 expression and that's reasonable. But CB1 is not the only CNS cannabinoid receptor (CB2 mostly expressed peripherally). There's also GPR55 which is activated by cannabinoids like THC. A little issue which could be addressed in future work.
  - kevin_thibedeau 8mo ago
    Alcohol can be consumed without intoxication. Nobody smokes to not get high.
    - master-lincoln 8mo ago
      Tell that to all CBD users and people who use Marijuana to reduce anxieties or spasticity. Also who drinks alcohol without wanting at least some of the intoxication effects?
      - hackingonempty 8mo ago
        I've gone to numerous tasting events where I spit out all of the wine. There may be hundreds of bottles being poured at a trade show and you can't really taste more than a handful if you are swallowing.
        BrandoElFollito 8mo ago
        True, but you end up high anyway. You would not drive in France for instance, because of the residual alcohol
    - nutjob2 8mo ago
      Patently false on both counts. There is always some level of intoxication and many people use pot to manage anxiety, pain, nausea and lack of appetite, while avoiding the high.
- buellerbueller 8mo ago
  Wisdom is knowing when not to put a tomato in a fruit salad. https://cheflindseyfarr.com/marinated-tomato-stone-fruit-salad/ https://cheflindseyfarr.com/marinated-tomato-stone-fruit-sal... (I second the recommendation of adding burrata.)
- ssl-3 8mo ago
  When I hear someone say "I do drugs," first I imagine that they're a fucking narcotics agent, and then I end the conversation.
- kannanvijayan 8mo ago
  Knowledge is being aware of the analogy of tomatoes not being treated like fruits even though they technically are. Wisdom is understanding that if there was legislation on the matter, and people who ate, produced, or sold non-tomato fruits were hunted and deprived of their freedoms by the state on the basis that fruits are bad for society, then you would likely see similar frustrations expressed about an article title that includes the phrase "tomatoes and fruits" to distinguish them.
  - lo_zamoyski 8mo ago
    This is such a terrible analogy. Hunted? Alcohol in moderation is relaxing. Most drugs, OTOH, when used at the doses that make them attractive to recreational drug users, impair reason, and impairing reason is not just stupid, but immoral. We can debate the particular methods by which the state regulates or otherwise deals with drug use, but there is nothing intrinsically wrong with the criminalization of such drugs as such. No one has a right to take drugs (there is no right to immorality). This may seem alien to a culture whose emaciated understanding of morality is exhausted by the concept of consent. The law is a teacher, and it is good to teach people that recreational drug use (and drunkenness) is a bad thing. Like all immorality, it is an insult to one's dignity and humanity. We can tolerate the impairment of reason as a proportionate side effect [0] (for instance, high doses of morphine given to terminally ill patients in extreme pain), but this is not recreational use. [0] https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/double-effect/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/double-effect/
    - master-lincoln 8mo ago
      Alcohol impairs cognitive functions more than Marijuana when under high influence.
- PlatoIsADisease 8mo ago
  Wittgenstein has an example, imagine you are on a construction site and someone says 'Slab!' Do they mean 'That is a slab.' or 'Hand me that slab.'? Context matters. There is no correct answer. There are no metaphysical truth particles that shake 'True!'. Expressivism, how you feel about the statement, is going to decide what you think. Anyway, I used to intentionally say things like "I love drugs, although its specifically Caffeine."
micromacrofoot 8mo ago
you can't ignore societal context though, most people do not consider alcohol a drug at this point... same story with caffeine we have to operate in people space
- swed420 8mo ago
  > most people do not consider alcohol a drug at this point But that's presumably why the parent commenter spoke up in the first place. Industry-fueled self-delusion can be intercepted if we make the effort to do so.
  - micromacrofoot 8mo ago
    I would argue that making the case on an individual level in this context can be more off-putting than helpful, and can have a negative effect.
    - swed420 8mo ago
      Spoken like a true alcoholic (former me would know)
      - micromacrofoot 8mo ago
        Was internet pedantry ultimately what helped you decide to quit?
        swed420 8mo ago
        I don't expect you to take my word, but fwiw, I obviously know nothing about you personally and did not mean it that way. It's just that what you said reminded me vividly of past me. Could have just been a coincidence, but either way, maybe our exchange will help somebody else in a tight spot. > Was internet pedantry ultimately what helped you decide to quit? No, at the time, the internet pedantry and the drinking actually helped fuel each other. Sober me now has more healthy limits regarding the internet, and I unplug when it becomes unhealthy instead of using it as an excuse to drink. What ultimately helped me quit drinking was several things combined over a long enough time, including: * in-person groups like AA (replacing the higher power stuff with an agnostic modification I found meaningful at the time) and S.M.A.R.T. * online communities like /r/stopdrinking and /r/cripplingalcoholism * regular therapy to target root causes like personal mental deficits (and how to re-wire my brain away from them) and other life struggles that were keeping me trapped in the cycle and fueling the addiction and symptoms of depression
dana321 8mo ago
Animals and dogs
- sejje 8mo ago
  Or a counterpoint, "humans and animals." We see a distinction for that one, just like we do for alcohol.
lo_zamoyski 8mo ago
There is a reason for this distinction. Alcohol in moderation is relaxing and can be enjoyable to the senses. Most drugs, and at the doses that make them appealing for recreational use, impair the exercise and function of reason and the sense faculties that inform it. (Drunkenness is bad for the same reason.) Given how central and essential to humanity reason is, that's an incredibly important distinction.
- dapangzi 8mo ago
  Logic does not follow to me. Plenty of drugs, used in moderation, are also relaxing and can be enjoyable to the senses. Alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, and marijuana products ARE drugs, not sure why people insist on making the distinction.
nutjob2 8mo ago
I've had someone tell me "pot isn't a drug" and what they meant is that pot is like alcohol.

Interesting article, but immediately ran into one of my pet peeves: > The work is published in the Journal of Studies on Alcohol and Drugs. "Alcohol and drugs" is like saying "beef and meat".

hippo22 8mo ago

When you hear someone say “I do drugs” do you imagine them sitting at a bar to have a drink? Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.

superkuh 8mo ago
We know. But it's a problem because alcohol is one of the most dangerous and damaging drugs. It's basically just society grandfathering it in and all of us living in a state of cognitive dissonance. re: the article itself, they concentrate only on brain regions which have high density of CB1 expression and that's reasonable. But CB1 is not the only CNS cannabinoid receptor (CB2 mostly expressed peripherally). There's also GPR55 which is activated by cannabinoids like THC. A little issue which could be addressed in future work.
- kevin_thibedeau 8mo ago
  Alcohol can be consumed without intoxication. Nobody smokes to not get high.
  - master-lincoln 8mo ago
    Tell that to all CBD users and people who use Marijuana to reduce anxieties or spasticity. Also who drinks alcohol without wanting at least some of the intoxication effects?
    - hackingonempty 8mo ago
      I've gone to numerous tasting events where I spit out all of the wine. There may be hundreds of bottles being poured at a trade show and you can't really taste more than a handful if you are swallowing.
      - BrandoElFollito 8mo ago
        True, but you end up high anyway. You would not drive in France for instance, because of the residual alcohol
  - nutjob2 8mo ago
    Patently false on both counts. There is always some level of intoxication and many people use pot to manage anxiety, pain, nausea and lack of appetite, while avoiding the high.
buellerbueller 8mo ago
Wisdom is knowing when not to put a tomato in a fruit salad. https://cheflindseyfarr.com/marinated-tomato-stone-fruit-salad/ https://cheflindseyfarr.com/marinated-tomato-stone-fruit-sal... (I second the recommendation of adding burrata.)
ssl-3 8mo ago
When I hear someone say "I do drugs," first I imagine that they're a fucking narcotics agent, and then I end the conversation.
kannanvijayan 8mo ago
Knowledge is being aware of the analogy of tomatoes not being treated like fruits even though they technically are. Wisdom is understanding that if there was legislation on the matter, and people who ate, produced, or sold non-tomato fruits were hunted and deprived of their freedoms by the state on the basis that fruits are bad for society, then you would likely see similar frustrations expressed about an article title that includes the phrase "tomatoes and fruits" to distinguish them.
- lo_zamoyski 8mo ago
  This is such a terrible analogy. Hunted? Alcohol in moderation is relaxing. Most drugs, OTOH, when used at the doses that make them attractive to recreational drug users, impair reason, and impairing reason is not just stupid, but immoral. We can debate the particular methods by which the state regulates or otherwise deals with drug use, but there is nothing intrinsically wrong with the criminalization of such drugs as such. No one has a right to take drugs (there is no right to immorality). This may seem alien to a culture whose emaciated understanding of morality is exhausted by the concept of consent. The law is a teacher, and it is good to teach people that recreational drug use (and drunkenness) is a bad thing. Like all immorality, it is an insult to one's dignity and humanity. We can tolerate the impairment of reason as a proportionate side effect [0] (for instance, high doses of morphine given to terminally ill patients in extreme pain), but this is not recreational use. [0] https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/double-effect/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/double-effect/
  - master-lincoln 8mo ago
    Alcohol impairs cognitive functions more than Marijuana when under high influence.
PlatoIsADisease 8mo ago
Wittgenstein has an example, imagine you are on a construction site and someone says 'Slab!' Do they mean 'That is a slab.' or 'Hand me that slab.'? Context matters. There is no correct answer. There are no metaphysical truth particles that shake 'True!'. Expressivism, how you feel about the statement, is going to decide what you think. Anyway, I used to intentionally say things like "I love drugs, although its specifically Caffeine."

micromacrofoot 8mo ago

you can't ignore societal context though, most people do not consider alcohol a drug at this point... same story with caffeine we have to operate in people space

swed420 8mo ago
> most people do not consider alcohol a drug at this point But that's presumably why the parent commenter spoke up in the first place. Industry-fueled self-delusion can be intercepted if we make the effort to do so.
- micromacrofoot 8mo ago
  I would argue that making the case on an individual level in this context can be more off-putting than helpful, and can have a negative effect.
  - swed420 8mo ago
    Spoken like a true alcoholic (former me would know)
    - micromacrofoot 8mo ago
      Was internet pedantry ultimately what helped you decide to quit?
      - swed420 8mo ago
        I don't expect you to take my word, but fwiw, I obviously know nothing about you personally and did not mean it that way. It's just that what you said reminded me vividly of past me. Could have just been a coincidence, but either way, maybe our exchange will help somebody else in a tight spot. > Was internet pedantry ultimately what helped you decide to quit? No, at the time, the internet pedantry and the drinking actually helped fuel each other. Sober me now has more healthy limits regarding the internet, and I unplug when it becomes unhealthy instead of using it as an excuse to drink. What ultimately helped me quit drinking was several things combined over a long enough time, including: * in-person groups like AA (replacing the higher power stuff with an agnostic modification I found meaningful at the time) and S.M.A.R.T. * online communities like /r/stopdrinking and /r/cripplingalcoholism * regular therapy to target root causes like personal mental deficits (and how to re-wire my brain away from them) and other life struggles that were keeping me trapped in the cycle and fueling the addiction and symptoms of depression

dana321 8mo ago

Animals and dogs

sejje 8mo ago
Or a counterpoint, "humans and animals." We see a distinction for that one, just like we do for alcohol.

lo_zamoyski 8mo ago

There is a reason for this distinction. Alcohol in moderation is relaxing and can be enjoyable to the senses. Most drugs, and at the doses that make them appealing for recreational use, impair the exercise and function of reason and the sense faculties that inform it. (Drunkenness is bad for the same reason.) Given how central and essential to humanity reason is, that's an incredibly important distinction.

dapangzi 8mo ago
Logic does not follow to me. Plenty of drugs, used in moderation, are also relaxing and can be enjoyable to the senses. Alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, and marijuana products ARE drugs, not sure why people insist on making the distinction.

nutjob2 8mo ago

I've had someone tell me "pot isn't a drug" and what they meant is that pot is like alcohol.