5 ms·

This is super interesting, and I'd actually be quite interested in buying a 60K-Lumen lamp... but not at $1200. Years ago, there was an HN article "You Need Mo

by mmh0000 9mo ago

This is super interesting, and I'd actually be quite interested in buying a 60K-Lumen lamp... but not at $1200. Years ago, there was an HN article "You Need More Lumens"[1], which in turn led me down a rabbit hole. I ended up purchasing: 4 standard table lamps from Target, 28 2000-lumen Cree LEDs bulbs[2] and, 4 7-way splitters[3]. The end result is somewhere around 56,000 lumens. And I LOVE it. Makes me much happier in my home office, especially in the winter months. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10957614 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10957614 [2] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08H4RJQTT https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08H4RJQTT [3] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FKIE6M4 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FKIE6M4

JKCalhoun 9mo ago
Curious if LEDs can really match the black-body that is our sun (and therefore incandescents). I would get/build such a thing for my mental health, but I worry the LED illumination will be counter-productive.
- jedbrooke 9mo ago
  I've found that a 250w incandescent bulb (can be had for ~$10) paired with a 4000 lumen LED produced decent results on a budget. Search for "reptile" or "chicken" lamps, they are usually red. You can feel the HEAT from a 250w light bulb. The only thing to watch out for is that the lamp base you're using can support the high wattage.
- syncsynchalt 9mo ago
  Look for the CRI rating of bulbs that you buy. It's a measurement of how close to a blackbody spectrum the bulb is putting out, the highest fidelity being 100. Note that this is not the temperature measurement, and you can have e.g. 2700K or 5000K bulbs with high CRI. Newer LED phosphors are typically 90+ CRI, and I commonly find 93 CRI bulbs available off the shelf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index
  - hollerith 9mo ago
    Sunlight diverges significantly from a black-body spectrum because the atmosphere absorbs so many wavelengths.
    - syncsynchalt 9mo ago
      I didn't want to mention that CRI is matched against the spectrum of _daylight_ because of the confusion that happens with color temperature when you mention the "daylight" word. You're right though, the CRI reference spectrum is matched against sunlight rather than a true blackbody.
  - JKCalhoun 9mo ago
    Interesting. The Wikipedia entry mentions SPD and I think that is where I think LEDs fall down—having a skewed and/or incomplete spectrum. Even though it may make certain target colors look correct.
  - hillac 9mo ago
    Even high cri lights have a huge blue spike that doesn't match the sun. I don't know what chip OP uses, but you need a full spectrum light if you actually want very sun-like light. This page has some details: https://optimizeyourbiology.com/best-natural-full-spectrum-lights https://optimizeyourbiology.com/best-natural-full-spectrum-l... No idea if there's any evidence or not of the blue spike actually mattering for human biology.
    - JKCalhoun 9mo ago
      Kind of what I worry about—the spectrum mismatch. Damn but incandescents sound pretty good for just this one application. I must be (am) getting old.
- AngryData 9mo ago
  I have seen a couple studies that show having/adding deep red is an important part of LED lighting because deep red penetrates your skin the deepest and is used as a signal to your body that it is receiving light/sun. Personally if I wanted "daylight" replicated by LEDs I would go for a higher quality white grow light that included deep red LEDs. Just be sure you don't get one that is also outputting in the UV range, although most don't.
- pocksuppet 9mo ago
  Any spectrum you want with the right phosphor mix, but are they commercially produced, or must you make your own?
eek2121 9mo ago
Just a fun random fact from me: We do need more lumens. Not for normal (non-production) indoor lighting in most situations, however, I always want a bright light for my outside lights, and I find that most 100w-equivalent (1500 lumens) are just not quite enough. 2,000 lumens is almost there, however, 2,500 lumens would be beneficial. Both 2,000 and 2,500 lumen bulbs either don't last in temperature extremes, or are super expensive. The power on time (think hours per day of use) and color of the light matters as well. In my use case, I need a bulb that can withstand long periods of time being run from dusk till dawn. I am willing to pay a decent amount for a guaranteed warranty for X years, however most bulbs of ANY amount of lumens only guarantee 1-3 hours a day for 1-5 years. When you need 7-10 hours a day, well...
- Nition 9mo ago
  Have you seen the Philips TrueForce Core 40W LED bulbs? Not sure if they're sold in the US, but they're 4000 lumens, "last up to 15,000 hours" (whatever you make of that phrasing). They're quite huge but fit into a normal light socket. Not very expensive either.
  - Scrapemist 9mo ago
    Interesting. 25000 hours actually.
  - accidentallfact 9mo ago
    It's a literal streetlight. It has the bigger E40 screw, not the standard E27 screw. It has an awful spectrum, it's basically blue + yellow, with a massive gap inbetween.
    - Nition 9mo ago
      Oh I see. I can explain my confusion: They come in two varieties, one is E40 an the other is bayonet (B22). Here in NZ interior home light sockets are sometimes E27 and sometimes B22. I have a couple of the bayonet Philips 40W bulbs here and they do fit a normal socket size, so I figured the screw version would be the normal size as well. But I see you're right that it's a larger size, and I know you guys don't use bayonet. Sorry!
jjcm 9mo ago
I did something similar, but a slightly different approach. I installed grow lights in my ceiling conches: amazon.com/dp/B07BRKT56T?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_1 In my office I have 6 of these, for a total of around 13,000 lumens. It effectively 6x'd my light output for around $150. Worked wonders, especially in the PNW winter.
- abcd_f 9mo ago
  > the PNW winter It rains only once ... but for six months :)
404mm 9mo ago
$1200 is a lot, and it would be a straight dealbreaker to me as well. But I also noticed it draws 580W, which is a lot too. Besides not wanting to waste the money, I doubt the lamp will last 5 years (not 5 years of projected use of XX minutes per day…). 580W converted to heat on a small disk will take its toll.
- the_arun 9mo ago
  It is way too expensive for me as well. Yeh, world's brightest lamp is costliest to buy & maintain.
- SPICLK2 9mo ago
  ~100 lumens per watt is rather poor, especially given the cost. It's the same as a standard LED lightbulb, and that includes the miniature AC voltage converter. 150lm/w would make it at least a cut above domestic lightbulbs. 200lm/w would make it a premium product.
  - user_7832 9mo ago
    > ~100 lumens per watt is rather poor Is it, though? Most of the LEDs I've seen are very similar, and lower temp LEDs are slightly less efficient. If it were 60lm/watt I'd be a bit surprised, but 100lm seems pretty typical. Maybe not "well engineered", but average. (Which, with all due respect to the founder, seems the quality of the product.)
    - SPICLK2 9mo ago
      CREE offer a variety of LED types with efficiencies 150lm/w (eg CMB, XT-E), up to 230lm/w (eg, 5050). While 100lm/w is typical for domestic LED lighting, it's going to cause problems when the total power is several orders of magnitude higher but the form factor is approximately the same size. That heatsink will probably fry an egg, and I wonder about the lifetime of the diffuser plastic.
  - antonok 9mo ago
    fwiw, LEDs with higher CRI will generally be less power efficient, so the premium category has a 3-way tradeoff between brightness, power, and color quality. It's common for high efficiency LED lightbulbs to be much worse at illuminating red objects.
wolfi1 9mo ago
don't worry, there soon will be knock-offs way cheaper
bambax 9mo ago
You can also buy photographic lights and umbrellas; it's dirt cheap and works well.
fanatic2pope 9mo ago
Costco sells a ceiling light that does 24k lumens for just over $100. https://www.costco.com/p/-/enbrighten-ultrabrite-hex-lights/4000363978?langId=-1 https://www.costco.com/p/-/enbrighten-ultrabrite-hex-lights/...
- mmh0000 9mo ago
  The problem with lights like that is the CRI[1]. Getting just lumens is cheap. Getting a full spectrum of light is where costs increase. This is the reason I chose to go with the specific Cree bulbs (linked in original post) that get a 90+ CRI rating [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index
  - fanatic2pope 9mo ago
    The Costco lights list a CRI of 90 in the user manual. https://enbrightenme.com/cdn/shop/files/85837_QSG_v4.pdf?v=3595394210396552613 https://enbrightenme.com/cdn/shop/files/85837_QSG_v4.pdf?v=3...
    - mmh0000 9mo ago
      Oh my... Thank you for finding a thing I need to spend money on now. =D
- ortusdux 9mo ago
  I hate dark/dingy basements, so one of my first purchases with my new house was 100k lumen of Costco shop lights. I do find myself cleaning the basement, doing laundry, and working on projects more when the sun starts to set at 5PM.
venkii 9mo ago
Related thread I wrote a bit ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/Lighting/comments/1po7sxb/are_there_diy_alternatives_that_compare_favorably/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Lighting/comments/1po7sxb/are_there... I do think it's actually quite hard to beat the Brighter lamp on all of: Lumens, $, QoL (ie: Google Home integration + temp control), Form Factor (ie: not looking ugly), CRI. I personally noticed issues w/ CRI & Form Factor quite a lot with my previous options.

by mmh0000 9mo ago

JKCalhoun 9mo ago

Curious if LEDs can really match the black-body that is our sun (and therefore incandescents). I would get/build such a thing for my mental health, but I worry the LED illumination will be counter-productive.

jedbrooke 9mo ago
I've found that a 250w incandescent bulb (can be had for ~$10) paired with a 4000 lumen LED produced decent results on a budget. Search for "reptile" or "chicken" lamps, they are usually red. You can feel the HEAT from a 250w light bulb. The only thing to watch out for is that the lamp base you're using can support the high wattage.
syncsynchalt 9mo ago
Look for the CRI rating of bulbs that you buy. It's a measurement of how close to a blackbody spectrum the bulb is putting out, the highest fidelity being 100. Note that this is not the temperature measurement, and you can have e.g. 2700K or 5000K bulbs with high CRI. Newer LED phosphors are typically 90+ CRI, and I commonly find 93 CRI bulbs available off the shelf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index
- hollerith 9mo ago
  Sunlight diverges significantly from a black-body spectrum because the atmosphere absorbs so many wavelengths.
  - syncsynchalt 9mo ago
    I didn't want to mention that CRI is matched against the spectrum of _daylight_ because of the confusion that happens with color temperature when you mention the "daylight" word. You're right though, the CRI reference spectrum is matched against sunlight rather than a true blackbody.
- JKCalhoun 9mo ago
  Interesting. The Wikipedia entry mentions SPD and I think that is where I think LEDs fall down—having a skewed and/or incomplete spectrum. Even though it may make certain target colors look correct.
- hillac 9mo ago
  Even high cri lights have a huge blue spike that doesn't match the sun. I don't know what chip OP uses, but you need a full spectrum light if you actually want very sun-like light. This page has some details: https://optimizeyourbiology.com/best-natural-full-spectrum-lights https://optimizeyourbiology.com/best-natural-full-spectrum-l... No idea if there's any evidence or not of the blue spike actually mattering for human biology.
  - JKCalhoun 9mo ago
    Kind of what I worry about—the spectrum mismatch. Damn but incandescents sound pretty good for just this one application. I must be (am) getting old.
AngryData 9mo ago
I have seen a couple studies that show having/adding deep red is an important part of LED lighting because deep red penetrates your skin the deepest and is used as a signal to your body that it is receiving light/sun. Personally if I wanted "daylight" replicated by LEDs I would go for a higher quality white grow light that included deep red LEDs. Just be sure you don't get one that is also outputting in the UV range, although most don't.
pocksuppet 9mo ago
Any spectrum you want with the right phosphor mix, but are they commercially produced, or must you make your own?

eek2121 9mo ago

Just a fun random fact from me: We do need more lumens. Not for normal (non-production) indoor lighting in most situations, however, I always want a bright light for my outside lights, and I find that most 100w-equivalent (1500 lumens) are just not quite enough. 2,000 lumens is almost there, however, 2,500 lumens would be beneficial. Both 2,000 and 2,500 lumen bulbs either don't last in temperature extremes, or are super expensive. The power on time (think hours per day of use) and color of the light matters as well. In my use case, I need a bulb that can withstand long periods of time being run from dusk till dawn. I am willing to pay a decent amount for a guaranteed warranty for X years, however most bulbs of ANY amount of lumens only guarantee 1-3 hours a day for 1-5 years. When you need 7-10 hours a day, well...

Nition 9mo ago
Have you seen the Philips TrueForce Core 40W LED bulbs? Not sure if they're sold in the US, but they're 4000 lumens, "last up to 15,000 hours" (whatever you make of that phrasing). They're quite huge but fit into a normal light socket. Not very expensive either.
- Scrapemist 9mo ago
  Interesting. 25000 hours actually.
- accidentallfact 9mo ago
  It's a literal streetlight. It has the bigger E40 screw, not the standard E27 screw. It has an awful spectrum, it's basically blue + yellow, with a massive gap inbetween.
  - Nition 9mo ago
    Oh I see. I can explain my confusion: They come in two varieties, one is E40 an the other is bayonet (B22). Here in NZ interior home light sockets are sometimes E27 and sometimes B22. I have a couple of the bayonet Philips 40W bulbs here and they do fit a normal socket size, so I figured the screw version would be the normal size as well. But I see you're right that it's a larger size, and I know you guys don't use bayonet. Sorry!

jjcm 9mo ago

I did something similar, but a slightly different approach. I installed grow lights in my ceiling conches: amazon.com/dp/B07BRKT56T?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_1 In my office I have 6 of these, for a total of around 13,000 lumens. It effectively 6x'd my light output for around $150. Worked wonders, especially in the PNW winter.

abcd_f 9mo ago
> the PNW winter It rains only once ... but for six months :)

404mm 9mo ago

$1200 is a lot, and it would be a straight dealbreaker to me as well. But I also noticed it draws 580W, which is a lot too. Besides not wanting to waste the money, I doubt the lamp will last 5 years (not 5 years of projected use of XX minutes per day…). 580W converted to heat on a small disk will take its toll.

the_arun 9mo ago
It is way too expensive for me as well. Yeh, world's brightest lamp is costliest to buy & maintain.
SPICLK2 9mo ago
~100 lumens per watt is rather poor, especially given the cost. It's the same as a standard LED lightbulb, and that includes the miniature AC voltage converter. 150lm/w would make it at least a cut above domestic lightbulbs. 200lm/w would make it a premium product.
- user_7832 9mo ago
  > ~100 lumens per watt is rather poor Is it, though? Most of the LEDs I've seen are very similar, and lower temp LEDs are slightly less efficient. If it were 60lm/watt I'd be a bit surprised, but 100lm seems pretty typical. Maybe not "well engineered", but average. (Which, with all due respect to the founder, seems the quality of the product.)
  - SPICLK2 9mo ago
    CREE offer a variety of LED types with efficiencies 150lm/w (eg CMB, XT-E), up to 230lm/w (eg, 5050). While 100lm/w is typical for domestic LED lighting, it's going to cause problems when the total power is several orders of magnitude higher but the form factor is approximately the same size. That heatsink will probably fry an egg, and I wonder about the lifetime of the diffuser plastic.
- antonok 9mo ago
  fwiw, LEDs with higher CRI will generally be less power efficient, so the premium category has a 3-way tradeoff between brightness, power, and color quality. It's common for high efficiency LED lightbulbs to be much worse at illuminating red objects.

wolfi1 9mo ago

don't worry, there soon will be knock-offs way cheaper

bambax 9mo ago

You can also buy photographic lights and umbrellas; it's dirt cheap and works well.

fanatic2pope 9mo ago

Costco sells a ceiling light that does 24k lumens for just over $100. https://www.costco.com/p/-/enbrighten-ultrabrite-hex-lights/4000363978?langId=-1 https://www.costco.com/p/-/enbrighten-ultrabrite-hex-lights/...

mmh0000 9mo ago
The problem with lights like that is the CRI[1]. Getting just lumens is cheap. Getting a full spectrum of light is where costs increase. This is the reason I chose to go with the specific Cree bulbs (linked in original post) that get a 90+ CRI rating [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index
- fanatic2pope 9mo ago
  The Costco lights list a CRI of 90 in the user manual. https://enbrightenme.com/cdn/shop/files/85837_QSG_v4.pdf?v=3595394210396552613 https://enbrightenme.com/cdn/shop/files/85837_QSG_v4.pdf?v=3...
  - mmh0000 9mo ago
    Oh my... Thank you for finding a thing I need to spend money on now. =D
ortusdux 9mo ago
I hate dark/dingy basements, so one of my first purchases with my new house was 100k lumen of Costco shop lights. I do find myself cleaning the basement, doing laundry, and working on projects more when the sun starts to set at 5PM.

venkii 9mo ago

Related thread I wrote a bit ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/Lighting/comments/1po7sxb/are_there_diy_alternatives_that_compare_favorably/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Lighting/comments/1po7sxb/are_there... I do think it's actually quite hard to beat the Brighter lamp on all of: Lumens, $, QoL (ie: Google Home integration + temp control), Form Factor (ie: not looking ugly), CRI. I personally noticed issues w/ CRI & Form Factor quite a lot with my previous options.