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I wouldn't say that just because someone knows Haskell they are suddenly a good programmer. Some schools use Haskell for their intro programming classes nowada

by jrp 18y ago

I wouldn't say that just because someone knows Haskell they are suddenly a good programmer. Some schools use Haskell for their intro programming classes nowadays.

ionfish 18y ago
Surely numbers are significant here. How many universities teach Haskell, compared to the number who teach Java? Of those that do teach Haskell, how many of them teach it to a level that someone taking that degree would easily be able to extend that knowledge to a level where they could get a job programming Haskell on a day-to-day basis? It's also a question of perception. The programmers one wouldn't want to hire, according to the metric under discussion, are those who learn a single popular language just to get a job. Is Haskell generally perceived as a language where there are a lot of jobs floating around? If not, then presumably most people learning it will be learning it because they're interested, because they want to improve as programmers, and so on.
gjm11 18y ago
No one's saying that (I think). The claim being made is that someone who wants a job programming in Haskell is likely to be someone who's interested in learning new things, not that someone who has learned some Haskell is likely to be a good programmer. Still, the thing linked is distinctly light on evidence (not a fault -- it's only an email on a Haskell mailing list) and I'm not quite sure what it's doing on the front page of HN; it's not exactly news that people wanting jobs programming in languages that are (1) difficult to learn, (2) interesting and (3) unusual, tend to be people who are interested in learning new stuff and keeping their brains active.
wfarr 18y ago
I would say that there are many more that don't even offer Haskell at the advanced level, or at best, offer one or two classes in the entire curriculum that use it.
- schtog 18y ago
  In Sweden I know Chalmers teaches funcional programming as an obligatory first year course and functional programming is traditionally strong there. In Lund it is taught as an advanced course and not obligatory. Java seems to be the default language.
jimbokun 18y ago
Which schools are that?
- ionfish 18y ago
  There are some listed on the 'Haskell in education' page on the Haskell wiki. http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_in_education http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_in_education
- xiaoma 18y ago
  I saw some students working on Haskel homework sets in the Dartmouth computer labs last spring.
shankys 18y ago
Being able to write a "hello, world" in Haskell certainly doesn't make you a good programmer. However, I would say that anyone who has already written a sizable Haskell program (5K+ LOC) is almost certainly a good programmer. The reason is that it's more work to grok Haskell than almost any other existing language, and the job market for Haskell hackers is practically nonexistent. You have to really love programming to become a proficient Haskell hacker.

by jrp 18y ago

I wouldn't say that just because someone knows Haskell they are suddenly a good programmer. Some schools use Haskell for their intro programming classes nowadays.

ionfish 18y ago

Surely numbers are significant here. How many universities teach Haskell, compared to the number who teach Java? Of those that do teach Haskell, how many of them teach it to a level that someone taking that degree would easily be able to extend that knowledge to a level where they could get a job programming Haskell on a day-to-day basis? It's also a question of perception. The programmers one wouldn't want to hire, according to the metric under discussion, are those who learn a single popular language just to get a job. Is Haskell generally perceived as a language where there are a lot of jobs floating around? If not, then presumably most people learning it will be learning it because they're interested, because they want to improve as programmers, and so on.

gjm11 18y ago

No one's saying that (I think). The claim being made is that someone who wants a job programming in Haskell is likely to be someone who's interested in learning new things, not that someone who has learned some Haskell is likely to be a good programmer. Still, the thing linked is distinctly light on evidence (not a fault -- it's only an email on a Haskell mailing list) and I'm not quite sure what it's doing on the front page of HN; it's not exactly news that people wanting jobs programming in languages that are (1) difficult to learn, (2) interesting and (3) unusual, tend to be people who are interested in learning new stuff and keeping their brains active.

wfarr 18y ago

I would say that there are many more that don't even offer Haskell at the advanced level, or at best, offer one or two classes in the entire curriculum that use it.

schtog 18y ago
In Sweden I know Chalmers teaches funcional programming as an obligatory first year course and functional programming is traditionally strong there. In Lund it is taught as an advanced course and not obligatory. Java seems to be the default language.

jimbokun 18y ago

Which schools are that?

ionfish 18y ago
There are some listed on the 'Haskell in education' page on the Haskell wiki. http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_in_education http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_in_education
xiaoma 18y ago
I saw some students working on Haskel homework sets in the Dartmouth computer labs last spring.

shankys 18y ago

Being able to write a "hello, world" in Haskell certainly doesn't make you a good programmer. However, I would say that anyone who has already written a sizable Haskell program (5K+ LOC) is almost certainly a good programmer. The reason is that it's more work to grok Haskell than almost any other existing language, and the job market for Haskell hackers is practically nonexistent. You have to really love programming to become a proficient Haskell hacker.