6 ms·

Talk to actual Trump voters and you'll see they support his tariffs and immigration crackdowns because they believe it will lead to economic prosperity and good

Talk to actual Trump voters and you'll see they support his tariffs and immigration crackdowns because they believe it will lead to economic prosperity and good jobs returning to their community. They believe the current system is fundamentally unfair to them. Even though that's totally backwards, and Trump is just making everything worse, that's what they believe. Framing immigration reform as "racists think there are too many non white people" is what costs Democrats elections.

FpUser 9mo ago
>"They believe the current system is fundamentally unfair to them" Well it fucking is. But thinking that current king can fix it is a lunacy
- nxm 9mo ago
  What was the alternative? More of the previous administration?
  - emsign 9mo ago
    People should have spoken up in town hall meetings and protest on the streets years ago. Now it's a bit too late, but better late than never. Americans rather sit on the couch, watch TV or be absorbed by their smartphone than to go out to their representatives and demand accountability. Instead they "shit" on every institution and person who seems to fight for justice and liberty. You get what you deserve guys. You can't vote with your wallet. You have to try to get to those people in power IN PERSON and pressure them. That's the only thing they understand. You know what the most effective instrument of power is? Distance. The rich and powerful distance themselves physically from the people, so the demands, worries, accusations, questions etc can't reach them.
  - unbalancedevh 9mo ago
    The reality in 2024 was that yes, the alternative was more of the previous administration. Maybe that was never a way to whatever ideal solution or policies might be possible in the future. But the only possible benefit of the current administration is that people's eyes get opened to the lunacy that's possible, resulting in a sort of mini-revolution that enacts changes that prevent the collusion and grift that are happening now. The Trump administration doesn't have any real government improvements in mind. They're only play is to destabilize the current status of whatever's in their sights, blame Democrats or whoever else is convenient for the mess, and profit from the confusion. Example: The Republican party has always had financial conservatism as a main goal. When was the last time the national debt or deficit improved under Republican leadership? Another, healthcare: For all of the complaining that Republicans have done about Obamacare, why haven't they replaced it with something better yet since they've had full control of the government? They've shown that they don't actually care about good government. What we got in the current administration wasn't any kind of secret before the 2024 election. People voted for it anyway because they're susceptible to the kinds of misinformation they were being fed. Trump's latest comments on his lack of commitment to peace, the cost of housing, and the well-being of the general population (just to name a few) make it clear that he doesn't consider them important; and Republican's fealty to him show the same of them.
  - FpUser 9mo ago
    Well the one now is definitely worse. Not that I like the one before. Something better is needed
  - rootusrootus 9mo ago
    Yes, and I would have been perfectly happy with that. The status quo was very much preferred to the chaos we are now experiencing. Just because I wanted different changes does not mean voting to burn it all down is the best alternative to no changes.
lotsofpulp 9mo ago
I prefer to live by the adage of actions speak louder than words. I’m capable of lying to present a facade, and I have to assume others are too.
- xienze 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  - emsign 9mo ago
    The Republican party is openly racist. More than it has ever been in the last 40 years! And you are claiming otherwise. You are actively looking the other way if you dismiss this. It's not normal and why should the Democrats copy the Republicans? So they lose the liberal voters who aren't okay with bigotry and revenge politics? Because no matter what the Democrats say, the MAGA Republicans will always beat them at that, and people will still vote for the OG racists anyway. Your argument is coming up everytime when right-wing populists gain votes, and it's always a fatal trap. Merz in Germany claimed to beat the AfD (who is loved by Bannon and Musk and was loved by Epstein btw, all "wonderful" people), and it failed he barely made it to become chancellor. It also failed in the 90s during the first wave of racism in Germany after re-unification.
  - lotsofpulp 9mo ago
    Voting for a traitorous convicted felon is why I can't stand federal level Republican voters. What is the point in changing the messaging when racism and sexism are at the root of the problem? For the record, I abhor my non federal level Democrat leaders, and vote Republican on the state and local level (because they are less crazy than the Democrats at this level).
    - bigstrat2003 9mo ago
      > What is the point in changing the messaging when racism and sexism are at the root of the problem? Because it is in fact the messaging which is the problem, not racism or sexism. Why on God's green earth would you expect people to vote for a political class that openly hates them, as indeed posters here are kindly demonstrating? I can tell you from personal experience that there are a great many Trump voters who aren't racist or sexist in any way. They are friendly and helpful to all whom they encounter in life. But they believed (rightly or wrongly) that Trump would best represent their interests, so they voted for him. Excoriating them as Bad People (TM) is only going to convince them that they were right to vote for Trump, because they can observe that Trump's opposition hates them. If your goal is to reduce support for Trump (or at this point his successor, since he can't be president again), then your #1 priority should be to work on messaging. It is the messaging of the Democrats that pushed so many people into Trump's arms, and unless that is changed it will do so again. Painting with the broad brush of "they're just racist" is not only intellectually lazy and untrue, it is actively harmful to the Trump opposition's cause.
emsign 9mo ago
> because they believe it will lead to economic prosperity and good jobs returning to their community. Maybe they say that but it's justification for their racist believes, which they still don't want to talk openly about. It just sounds better when someone invents some "benefits" of it. Like wild claims in an ad is helping the buyer justify their impulse shopping.
- badc0ffee 9mo ago
  70 million Americans voted for him. His biggest demographic win compared to the last election was non-white men. Immediately dismissing this as racism isn't going to help you understand it, or help the Democrats beat the Republicans.
  - emsign 9mo ago
    To the contrary! They were tricked to believe that they were part of society. They aren't. By voting for Trump they reassured themselves that it won't happen to them. Often times racism against the newest group of immigrants coming from the group of immigrants before them is seen by the latter as a rite of passage to be accepted into US society. The Irish used to be in a similar position like the people from South America today. Now they are seen as white but before WWI they weren't seen as white by the WASPs. And it's totally normal for some of the second or third generation immigrants to become racist against new immigrants. Rite of passage.
    - JoshTriplett 9mo ago
      It's zero-sum thinking, "the pie isn't big enough and can't get bigger and I'm afraid, so I'm going to hurt other people so that I don't get hurt".
      - emsign 9mo ago
        Yes. And they still remember where they are coming from and they fear that they might again lose their piece of the pie to the groups that are considered more "American", so they feel the need to prove their place in society by cheering the leader who is preaching that the pie is getting smaller and that someone has to leave the table. This fear is handed down over generations and for some families or communities it transforms into hatred. This mechanism is very often played by amoral populists because it works so well. Many of the most disgusting and radical Democracy hating people in Trumps inner circle are Catholics by the way. Go figure.

FpUser 9mo ago

>"They believe the current system is fundamentally unfair to them" Well it fucking is. But thinking that current king can fix it is a lunacy

nxm 9mo ago
What was the alternative? More of the previous administration?
- emsign 9mo ago
  People should have spoken up in town hall meetings and protest on the streets years ago. Now it's a bit too late, but better late than never. Americans rather sit on the couch, watch TV or be absorbed by their smartphone than to go out to their representatives and demand accountability. Instead they "shit" on every institution and person who seems to fight for justice and liberty. You get what you deserve guys. You can't vote with your wallet. You have to try to get to those people in power IN PERSON and pressure them. That's the only thing they understand. You know what the most effective instrument of power is? Distance. The rich and powerful distance themselves physically from the people, so the demands, worries, accusations, questions etc can't reach them.
- unbalancedevh 9mo ago
  The reality in 2024 was that yes, the alternative was more of the previous administration. Maybe that was never a way to whatever ideal solution or policies might be possible in the future. But the only possible benefit of the current administration is that people's eyes get opened to the lunacy that's possible, resulting in a sort of mini-revolution that enacts changes that prevent the collusion and grift that are happening now. The Trump administration doesn't have any real government improvements in mind. They're only play is to destabilize the current status of whatever's in their sights, blame Democrats or whoever else is convenient for the mess, and profit from the confusion. Example: The Republican party has always had financial conservatism as a main goal. When was the last time the national debt or deficit improved under Republican leadership? Another, healthcare: For all of the complaining that Republicans have done about Obamacare, why haven't they replaced it with something better yet since they've had full control of the government? They've shown that they don't actually care about good government. What we got in the current administration wasn't any kind of secret before the 2024 election. People voted for it anyway because they're susceptible to the kinds of misinformation they were being fed. Trump's latest comments on his lack of commitment to peace, the cost of housing, and the well-being of the general population (just to name a few) make it clear that he doesn't consider them important; and Republican's fealty to him show the same of them.
- FpUser 9mo ago
  Well the one now is definitely worse. Not that I like the one before. Something better is needed
- rootusrootus 9mo ago
  Yes, and I would have been perfectly happy with that. The status quo was very much preferred to the chaos we are now experiencing. Just because I wanted different changes does not mean voting to burn it all down is the best alternative to no changes.

lotsofpulp 9mo ago

I prefer to live by the adage of actions speak louder than words. I’m capable of lying to present a facade, and I have to assume others are too.

xienze 9mo ago
[flagged]
- emsign 9mo ago
  The Republican party is openly racist. More than it has ever been in the last 40 years! And you are claiming otherwise. You are actively looking the other way if you dismiss this. It's not normal and why should the Democrats copy the Republicans? So they lose the liberal voters who aren't okay with bigotry and revenge politics? Because no matter what the Democrats say, the MAGA Republicans will always beat them at that, and people will still vote for the OG racists anyway. Your argument is coming up everytime when right-wing populists gain votes, and it's always a fatal trap. Merz in Germany claimed to beat the AfD (who is loved by Bannon and Musk and was loved by Epstein btw, all "wonderful" people), and it failed he barely made it to become chancellor. It also failed in the 90s during the first wave of racism in Germany after re-unification.
- lotsofpulp 9mo ago
  Voting for a traitorous convicted felon is why I can't stand federal level Republican voters. What is the point in changing the messaging when racism and sexism are at the root of the problem? For the record, I abhor my non federal level Democrat leaders, and vote Republican on the state and local level (because they are less crazy than the Democrats at this level).
  - bigstrat2003 9mo ago
    > What is the point in changing the messaging when racism and sexism are at the root of the problem? Because it is in fact the messaging which is the problem, not racism or sexism. Why on God's green earth would you expect people to vote for a political class that openly hates them, as indeed posters here are kindly demonstrating? I can tell you from personal experience that there are a great many Trump voters who aren't racist or sexist in any way. They are friendly and helpful to all whom they encounter in life. But they believed (rightly or wrongly) that Trump would best represent their interests, so they voted for him. Excoriating them as Bad People (TM) is only going to convince them that they were right to vote for Trump, because they can observe that Trump's opposition hates them. If your goal is to reduce support for Trump (or at this point his successor, since he can't be president again), then your #1 priority should be to work on messaging. It is the messaging of the Democrats that pushed so many people into Trump's arms, and unless that is changed it will do so again. Painting with the broad brush of "they're just racist" is not only intellectually lazy and untrue, it is actively harmful to the Trump opposition's cause.

emsign 9mo ago

> because they believe it will lead to economic prosperity and good jobs returning to their community. Maybe they say that but it's justification for their racist believes, which they still don't want to talk openly about. It just sounds better when someone invents some "benefits" of it. Like wild claims in an ad is helping the buyer justify their impulse shopping.

badc0ffee 9mo ago
70 million Americans voted for him. His biggest demographic win compared to the last election was non-white men. Immediately dismissing this as racism isn't going to help you understand it, or help the Democrats beat the Republicans.
- emsign 9mo ago
  To the contrary! They were tricked to believe that they were part of society. They aren't. By voting for Trump they reassured themselves that it won't happen to them. Often times racism against the newest group of immigrants coming from the group of immigrants before them is seen by the latter as a rite of passage to be accepted into US society. The Irish used to be in a similar position like the people from South America today. Now they are seen as white but before WWI they weren't seen as white by the WASPs. And it's totally normal for some of the second or third generation immigrants to become racist against new immigrants. Rite of passage.
  - JoshTriplett 9mo ago
    It's zero-sum thinking, "the pie isn't big enough and can't get bigger and I'm afraid, so I'm going to hurt other people so that I don't get hurt".
    - emsign 9mo ago
      Yes. And they still remember where they are coming from and they fear that they might again lose their piece of the pie to the groups that are considered more "American", so they feel the need to prove their place in society by cheering the leader who is preaching that the pie is getting smaller and that someone has to leave the table. This fear is handed down over generations and for some families or communities it transforms into hatred. This mechanism is very often played by amoral populists because it works so well. Many of the most disgusting and radical Democracy hating people in Trumps inner circle are Catholics by the way. Go figure.