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Why would I bother with an unreliable 3D printed zip gun and 3D printing when I can go and get a real working gun off the street for a few hundred? Edit, readi

Why would I bother with an unreliable 3D printed zip gun and 3D printing when I can go and get a real working gun off the street for a few hundred? Edit, reading further it's even more insane: > The New York definitions sweep in not just FDM and resin printers, but also CNC mills and “any machine capable of making three-dimensional modifications to an object from a digital design file using subtractive manufacturing.” That’s a lot of shop & manufacturing equipment! This is the dumbest thing I have ever read.

embedding-shape 9mo ago
Is that true in New York? Maybe it currently requires permits, so at least there is a log and provenance chain someone could use in case it's used for bad stuff? Sounds like if you'd want to avoid that (like if you wanna shot a CEO and get away with it for example), you could use a offline 3D printer.
- scratchyone 9mo ago
  > Is that true in New York? Maybe it currently requires permits What are you referring to as "it" here? When OP mentioned getting a gun from "off the street", that's referring to obtaining one illegally, without a provenance chain or any permitting. If you want to shoot a CEO, its far easier to buy an untraceable gun on the streets (or obtain a non-serialized 80% lower receiver that you drill yourself) rather than an unreliable fully 3D-printed gun.
  - embedding-shape 9mo ago
    Ah, I wasn't familiar with "off the street" meaning that, I thought they were saying "go to a store and buy a gun". Thanks! Is it that easy to acquire even illegal firearms in the US, that you can just walk around in NYC to the shadier streets and find randoms willing to sell them to you?
    - scratchyone 9mo ago
      I can't directly attest to that (never bought an illegal gun) but from my understanding, yes, people have no challenge obtaining illegal guns. However, you really don't even need to do that. You could just drive across the NY border to a state with looser gun laws, buy one there, shave off the serial number, and bring it back to NY. You could also just steal a gun from one of the many Americans who already own one. You can also legally buy an unfinished lower receiver in many states (the part of a gun that is typically serialized). Since it's technically unfinished, it doesn't require a serial number. Then you drill a few holes into it and assemble it with off the shelf, also un-serialized gun parts.
    - MisterTea 9mo ago
      > that you can just walk around in NYC to the shadier streets and find randoms willing to sell them to you? You know someone who knows someone.
    - jcgrillo 9mo ago
      I'm not sure if it's still this way but when I was a kid you could buy old guns at rural flea markets or antiques shops. I've never attempted to purchase an illicit firearm, but I can't imagine it's any harder than buying illegal drugs.
- happyopossum 9mo ago
  > Is that true in New York? Maybe it currently requires permits The implication with this type of argument is that if someone is willing to break the law against murder, they'd be willing/able to break the laws around legally purchasing or owning a gun.
- MisterTea 9mo ago
  > (like if you wanna shot a CEO and get away with it for example) Dude literally sat in a McDonalds with all the evidence on him including the 3D printed gun. The idea of phantom murderers wielding 3D printed weapons is nothing more than a rich guy/CEO anxiety fantasy.
RajT88 9mo ago
Exactly. The zip gun people are mostly just weird nerds, and not professional assassins. The latter seems to be doing it the old fashioned way which leaves no traces - buy cheap gun, file off serials, throw it in the river after. Zip guns may get past a metal detector, but not the standard x-ray luggage scan. To the extent it'll make it past the x-ray screeners, it's because they let all kinds of stuff through, because it's a poor way to screen for dangerous things, and they are not high-skill employees, they are relatively cheap labor. Source: I used to travel every week flying home Friday, cycle clothes out of my travel bags, and be on the road again on Sunday night. I learned to my horror I'd been flying with a pair of scissors for at least 5 weeks - during which, TSA forced me to open a Christmas present for my sister and throw away some hand lotion which was in too big of a bottle. There's a reason they call it security theater. This is just more of it.
- billfor 9mo ago
  Same thing happened to me -- had a large vice grip in the duffel bag. Could have killed somebody over the head with it. They looked at their "regulations" and vice grips weren't on it so they let me through. You know who didn't let it through though - I left it in the bag and the Chinese security confiscated it on the way back. btw don't try that with something that is on their list like ammo, even one bullet. Your life will be ruined.
  - oasisbob 9mo ago
    Traveling with ammo is not wise, but the number of people who accidentally try to fly with firearms is astronomical and penalties are usually light.
  - RajT88 9mo ago
    > btw don't try that with something that is on their list like ammo, even one bullet. Your life will be ruined. I've done that too. You travel so aggressively, eventually you have some oopsies. I went through a stint where I was driving for work, and working with a bunch of people in a woodsy state. A guy would take us shooting, and he asked me to buy a box of ammo to replace what I shot - so 20 bucks for 500 rounds of .22 caliber ammo. Next time I flew was the first time I had actually been selected for TSA precheck - you know, the Trusted Traveler program and you can guess what I left in my carry-on. I was very apologetic and had to talk to a very grumpy city police officer, but it was fine. I paid a fine of $130, and that was it - they offered to let me check my bag to keep the munitions too! It has never even come up with my 3 Global Entry interviews either. And yes - I live in a blue state. Obviously don't do it. It wasn't a problem for me, but very much YMMV. I know someone else who got dinged for having a banana they bought in a foreign airport, and that continues to come up in their Global Entry interviews. Live ammunition < Bananas, apparently.
jcgrillo 9mo ago
If I wanted to make a custom one-off weapon for some reason why would I use CNC? I'd just do it like normal on manual toolmaking machines. CNC is for achieving repeatability with less tooling in a manufacturing pipeline. Nobody is mass producing bootleg guns. Even if you buy the premise that someone might do this (which to your point they won't--getting a real gun isn't hard) it's completely flawed reasoning based in some CSI style TV trope. Next they'll demand CCTV cameras have an "enhance" mode.
tastyfreeze 9mo ago
3D printed guns haven't been zip guns in a long time. That reads as willful ignorance. Only the receiver or frame are controlled. Every other part can be purchased online without any checks. Hoffman Tactical's Orca and a myriad of pistol frame can be used to produce weapons on par with commercial weapons. Many commercial pistols are polymer frames. A good 3d printed pistol frame is no different than a cast nylon polymer frame. If you want to see what is possible with 3d printed guns now I recommend Hoffman Tactical and PSR on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/@HoffmanTactical https://www.youtube.com/@HoffmanTactical https://www.youtube.com/@PrintShootRepeat https://www.youtube.com/@PrintShootRepeat
bluGill 9mo ago
The only time a 3d printed gun is useful is if your country is occupied and you have a chance to secretly shoot one of the occupiers if only you could get a gun past their confiscation. Otherwise it is an interesting toy that you might shoot once to say you did it. I don't know where you get bullets for the gun though.
9cb14c1ec0 9mo ago
Not is it only dumb, but it is plain unimplementable. Are they saying the HMI interfaces on CNC machines need to be able to parse the GCode generated by any of dozens of CAM software options out there and divine if it might be gun related? That is not possible.
bluescrn 9mo ago
> Why would I bother with an unreliable 3D printed zip gun and 3D printing when I can go and get a real working gun off the street for a few hundred? Even in countries with strict gun control, like the UK, the most serious criminals can get hold of guns. And if lesser criminals 3D printed a gun, they'd struggle to get hold of ammo for it. So they stick to knives.
- pjc50 9mo ago
  Reading up on this, the remaining UK incidents seem to involve mostly "converted blank-firing copies", with the NCA describing 3D printed firearms as "low status". And as you say ammo is highly controlled here.
observationist 9mo ago
3d printing ghost guns with a 100% plastic construction is a silly thing only done for clickbait, and probably comprises less than a tenth of a percent of 3d printing gun related activity. Most people are printing frames, parts, flair, accessories, mounts, things like that, and using sensible real metal parts for things involving explosive forces and danger.
b00ty4breakfast 9mo ago
And anyways, you can make a zip gun out of hardware store parts on your kitchen table, no machining or 3d printing required.

embedding-shape 9mo ago

Is that true in New York? Maybe it currently requires permits, so at least there is a log and provenance chain someone could use in case it's used for bad stuff? Sounds like if you'd want to avoid that (like if you wanna shot a CEO and get away with it for example), you could use a offline 3D printer.

scratchyone 9mo ago
> Is that true in New York? Maybe it currently requires permits What are you referring to as "it" here? When OP mentioned getting a gun from "off the street", that's referring to obtaining one illegally, without a provenance chain or any permitting. If you want to shoot a CEO, its far easier to buy an untraceable gun on the streets (or obtain a non-serialized 80% lower receiver that you drill yourself) rather than an unreliable fully 3D-printed gun.
- embedding-shape 9mo ago
  Ah, I wasn't familiar with "off the street" meaning that, I thought they were saying "go to a store and buy a gun". Thanks! Is it that easy to acquire even illegal firearms in the US, that you can just walk around in NYC to the shadier streets and find randoms willing to sell them to you?
  - scratchyone 9mo ago
    I can't directly attest to that (never bought an illegal gun) but from my understanding, yes, people have no challenge obtaining illegal guns. However, you really don't even need to do that. You could just drive across the NY border to a state with looser gun laws, buy one there, shave off the serial number, and bring it back to NY. You could also just steal a gun from one of the many Americans who already own one. You can also legally buy an unfinished lower receiver in many states (the part of a gun that is typically serialized). Since it's technically unfinished, it doesn't require a serial number. Then you drill a few holes into it and assemble it with off the shelf, also un-serialized gun parts.
  - MisterTea 9mo ago
    > that you can just walk around in NYC to the shadier streets and find randoms willing to sell them to you? You know someone who knows someone.
  - jcgrillo 9mo ago
    I'm not sure if it's still this way but when I was a kid you could buy old guns at rural flea markets or antiques shops. I've never attempted to purchase an illicit firearm, but I can't imagine it's any harder than buying illegal drugs.
happyopossum 9mo ago
> Is that true in New York? Maybe it currently requires permits The implication with this type of argument is that if someone is willing to break the law against murder, they'd be willing/able to break the laws around legally purchasing or owning a gun.
MisterTea 9mo ago
> (like if you wanna shot a CEO and get away with it for example) Dude literally sat in a McDonalds with all the evidence on him including the 3D printed gun. The idea of phantom murderers wielding 3D printed weapons is nothing more than a rich guy/CEO anxiety fantasy.

RajT88 9mo ago

Exactly. The zip gun people are mostly just weird nerds, and not professional assassins. The latter seems to be doing it the old fashioned way which leaves no traces - buy cheap gun, file off serials, throw it in the river after. Zip guns may get past a metal detector, but not the standard x-ray luggage scan. To the extent it'll make it past the x-ray screeners, it's because they let all kinds of stuff through, because it's a poor way to screen for dangerous things, and they are not high-skill employees, they are relatively cheap labor. Source: I used to travel every week flying home Friday, cycle clothes out of my travel bags, and be on the road again on Sunday night. I learned to my horror I'd been flying with a pair of scissors for at least 5 weeks - during which, TSA forced me to open a Christmas present for my sister and throw away some hand lotion which was in too big of a bottle. There's a reason they call it security theater. This is just more of it.

billfor 9mo ago
Same thing happened to me -- had a large vice grip in the duffel bag. Could have killed somebody over the head with it. They looked at their "regulations" and vice grips weren't on it so they let me through. You know who didn't let it through though - I left it in the bag and the Chinese security confiscated it on the way back. btw don't try that with something that is on their list like ammo, even one bullet. Your life will be ruined.
- oasisbob 9mo ago
  Traveling with ammo is not wise, but the number of people who accidentally try to fly with firearms is astronomical and penalties are usually light.
- RajT88 9mo ago
  > btw don't try that with something that is on their list like ammo, even one bullet. Your life will be ruined. I've done that too. You travel so aggressively, eventually you have some oopsies. I went through a stint where I was driving for work, and working with a bunch of people in a woodsy state. A guy would take us shooting, and he asked me to buy a box of ammo to replace what I shot - so 20 bucks for 500 rounds of .22 caliber ammo. Next time I flew was the first time I had actually been selected for TSA precheck - you know, the Trusted Traveler program and you can guess what I left in my carry-on. I was very apologetic and had to talk to a very grumpy city police officer, but it was fine. I paid a fine of $130, and that was it - they offered to let me check my bag to keep the munitions too! It has never even come up with my 3 Global Entry interviews either. And yes - I live in a blue state. Obviously don't do it. It wasn't a problem for me, but very much YMMV. I know someone else who got dinged for having a banana they bought in a foreign airport, and that continues to come up in their Global Entry interviews. Live ammunition < Bananas, apparently.

jcgrillo 9mo ago

If I wanted to make a custom one-off weapon for some reason why would I use CNC? I'd just do it like normal on manual toolmaking machines. CNC is for achieving repeatability with less tooling in a manufacturing pipeline. Nobody is mass producing bootleg guns. Even if you buy the premise that someone might do this (which to your point they won't--getting a real gun isn't hard) it's completely flawed reasoning based in some CSI style TV trope. Next they'll demand CCTV cameras have an "enhance" mode.

tastyfreeze 9mo ago

3D printed guns haven't been zip guns in a long time. That reads as willful ignorance. Only the receiver or frame are controlled. Every other part can be purchased online without any checks. Hoffman Tactical's Orca and a myriad of pistol frame can be used to produce weapons on par with commercial weapons. Many commercial pistols are polymer frames. A good 3d printed pistol frame is no different than a cast nylon polymer frame. If you want to see what is possible with 3d printed guns now I recommend Hoffman Tactical and PSR on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/@HoffmanTactical https://www.youtube.com/@HoffmanTactical https://www.youtube.com/@PrintShootRepeat https://www.youtube.com/@PrintShootRepeat

bluGill 9mo ago

The only time a 3d printed gun is useful is if your country is occupied and you have a chance to secretly shoot one of the occupiers if only you could get a gun past their confiscation. Otherwise it is an interesting toy that you might shoot once to say you did it. I don't know where you get bullets for the gun though.

9cb14c1ec0 9mo ago

Not is it only dumb, but it is plain unimplementable. Are they saying the HMI interfaces on CNC machines need to be able to parse the GCode generated by any of dozens of CAM software options out there and divine if it might be gun related? That is not possible.

bluescrn 9mo ago

> Why would I bother with an unreliable 3D printed zip gun and 3D printing when I can go and get a real working gun off the street for a few hundred? Even in countries with strict gun control, like the UK, the most serious criminals can get hold of guns. And if lesser criminals 3D printed a gun, they'd struggle to get hold of ammo for it. So they stick to knives.

pjc50 9mo ago
Reading up on this, the remaining UK incidents seem to involve mostly "converted blank-firing copies", with the NCA describing 3D printed firearms as "low status". And as you say ammo is highly controlled here.

observationist 9mo ago

3d printing ghost guns with a 100% plastic construction is a silly thing only done for clickbait, and probably comprises less than a tenth of a percent of 3d printing gun related activity. Most people are printing frames, parts, flair, accessories, mounts, things like that, and using sensible real metal parts for things involving explosive forces and danger.

b00ty4breakfast 9mo ago

And anyways, you can make a zip gun out of hardware store parts on your kitchen table, no machining or 3d printing required.