4 ms·

Aren't people worried about their jobs? I'm surprised that this aspect is almost entirely missing in threads like this.

spants 9mo ago
control ai or be controlled by it. Learn everything that you can about AI and you will be a great resource. Otherwise, learn a trade. Electricians will be required...........
- RivieraKid 9mo ago
  The percentage of people employed in agriculture dropped from 80% to 2%. The market will be full of people who are willing to learn everything about AI in order to have a comfortable and highly paid job. Becoming an electrician would be a downgrade or even impossible for some people. For the record, I think AI replacing highly paid "sitting behind a computer" jobs would be good for the society, but probably not for most people having these jobs.
keyle 9mo ago
Say, you can vibe design your next house. Would you want that? Isn't a house too personal that you'd want to get a professional architect with experience to design it, and sign off on it? Even if they used advanced tools like CAD and copy pastes 8/10 of it? Sure, you can probably one shot notepad.exe but it has no meaning. Meaningful work isn't going anywhere, for the reason that meaningful work lives and lives on by people for people. No one wants a vibe designed car, unless you are one of those psychos that has no tastes and doesn't care about anything.
- thedevilslawyer 9mo ago
  Have you worked with a professional architect. Cost adds up fast, and you get 1-2 iterations? I'd love to work and vibecode the house to my full liking, assuming that the agent harness will take care of all the nonfunctional things (stable design, zoning etc). Same for car if I could customize it I would. (I definitely don't like the ramifications of it on the economy/jobs, but the above are pure consumer wins, no doubt)
  - jopsen 9mo ago
    > I'd love to work and vibecode the house to my full liking, Instead of deadcode, it'll leave you with a few extra secret rooms that have no doors or windows :) The reason you wouldn't want this is cost. The cost of building a house is marginally affected by designing it with an AI agent. Most of the cost is bricks, etc -- material.
- johnstenner 9mo ago
  I absolutely would want a vibe designed house or car. Vibe to completion, then have a now higher paid expert architect/engineer review the plan to confirm it is safe to proceed. Until we can reliably trust these models to skip that last step, there is nothing inherently wrong with using AI to create, so long as it is manually reviewed for accuracy at the end.
zhshsha 9mo ago
Have you actually used these tools? My CTO is pushing 30k line PRs and when asked “how do you know it works” all he can say is “I’m not sure but it probably does. Our customers can QA”. Meanwhile I’m cleaning up half vibed messes from my coworkers that demo’d well. They’re very powerful, but I think their marketing departments are even more powerful. I do wonder how many of these comments are real people.
- RivieraKid 9mo ago
  Not much, only the non-paid non-agent stuff. It's pretty impressive but my estimate is at best a 2x productivity jump for general use. My worry is that the agentic stuff is reportedly a significant improvement and getting better quickly.
  - farmdawgnation 9mo ago
    IMO If you're not using the tools regularly, you should start from the assumption that you're being heavily influenced by the folks that are trying to sell you something. I'm using these agentic tools for writing and improving software many times a day. The way I describe this to people is that it has changed the balance between "do I need to teach the computer to do this" or "do I just do it myself" farther in realm to the former. It's really good a boilerplate which I think is a welcome thing altogether. It's not actually doing the hard thinking that's required to scale something in production, reconcile a conflict between privacy and functionality effectively for your particular customers, or determine with any reliability what will actually sell.
  - johnstenner 9mo ago
    only 2x? :( why are we even bothering at that point
- Gud 9mo ago
  I use Claude and ChatGPT to build a highly complex piece of software. It is working, and it is working well. It probably helps that I am a skilled programmer while being an expert in another domain. My software development has gone from write/read/execute to read/execute and I’m fine with that.
panarky 9mo ago
Jobs are poison. Why is everyone so worried about poison going away?
- palmotea 9mo ago
  > Jobs are poison. > Why is everyone so worried about poison going away? Hello, aloof galaxy-brain. If you weren't aware, we live in a capitalist economy. In capitalism, if you don't have money you are in a state we call "poor," which means your life is difficult and your living standards bad. Most people rely on having a job to make money, and usually need a well-paying job to be comfortable and secure. AI isn't going to change any of that. It's not going to make energy, or land or housing more abundant, in fact it will probably make all of those things more scarce. If the future doesn't have "jobs," there will probably be a holocaust of workers before we get there. IMHO, that's more likely that some kind of utopian techno-socialism.
  - nano11874 9mo ago
    AI isn't going to change any of that. Are you sure about that? I think the future will be here faster than we imagine
    - palmotea 9mo ago
      >> AI isn't going to change any of that. > Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure. If our society was capable of that kind of adaptation (less/no jobs), it would have done it by now. In fact, the impulse has been in the other direction. AI's not some magic thing, in this way it's no different than any other labor-eliminating technology. > I think the future will be here faster than we imagine Yeah, but that future ain't going to be the utopia promised by AI's salesmen. They're salesmen, and they're saying whatever they need to say to get you to buy in.
  - panarky 9mo ago
    A small island has 20 residents. One farmer works full time to grow enough food to feed everyone. One carpenter works full time to maintain housing for everyone. The other 18 people work full time reciting incantations to the gods to prevent their destruction. The farmer and the carpenter are too busy growing food and maintaining housing to recite incantations all day. So each of the 18 incantation reciters spends an extra two hours every week to recite incantations for the farmer and the carpenter to prevent their destruction too. Then a magic stone is discovered that can recite the incantations by itself, the gods are appeased, and nobody has to work full time reciting incantations any more. How can the islanders possibly survive now that 90% of them don't have full-time jobs? The farmer and the carpenter are no worse off, but they think it's unfair that they must continue working full-time while 90% of the residents don't work at all. Perhaps the farmer and the carpenter should destroy the magic stone so that everyone will have full-time jobs again. Or is there some other way the islanders can survive after 90% of the work has been eliminated?
someguyiguess 9mo ago
You guys still have jobs???

control ai or be controlled by it. Learn everything that you can about AI and you will be a great resource. Otherwise, learn a trade. Electricians will be required...........

RivieraKid 9mo ago
The percentage of people employed in agriculture dropped from 80% to 2%. The market will be full of people who are willing to learn everything about AI in order to have a comfortable and highly paid job. Becoming an electrician would be a downgrade or even impossible for some people. For the record, I think AI replacing highly paid "sitting behind a computer" jobs would be good for the society, but probably not for most people having these jobs.

keyle 9mo ago

Say, you can vibe design your next house. Would you want that? Isn't a house too personal that you'd want to get a professional architect with experience to design it, and sign off on it? Even if they used advanced tools like CAD and copy pastes 8/10 of it? Sure, you can probably one shot notepad.exe but it has no meaning. Meaningful work isn't going anywhere, for the reason that meaningful work lives and lives on by people for people. No one wants a vibe designed car, unless you are one of those psychos that has no tastes and doesn't care about anything.

thedevilslawyer 9mo ago
Have you worked with a professional architect. Cost adds up fast, and you get 1-2 iterations? I'd love to work and vibecode the house to my full liking, assuming that the agent harness will take care of all the nonfunctional things (stable design, zoning etc). Same for car if I could customize it I would. (I definitely don't like the ramifications of it on the economy/jobs, but the above are pure consumer wins, no doubt)
- jopsen 9mo ago
  > I'd love to work and vibecode the house to my full liking, Instead of deadcode, it'll leave you with a few extra secret rooms that have no doors or windows :) The reason you wouldn't want this is cost. The cost of building a house is marginally affected by designing it with an AI agent. Most of the cost is bricks, etc -- material.
johnstenner 9mo ago
I absolutely would want a vibe designed house or car. Vibe to completion, then have a now higher paid expert architect/engineer review the plan to confirm it is safe to proceed. Until we can reliably trust these models to skip that last step, there is nothing inherently wrong with using AI to create, so long as it is manually reviewed for accuracy at the end.

zhshsha 9mo ago

Have you actually used these tools? My CTO is pushing 30k line PRs and when asked “how do you know it works” all he can say is “I’m not sure but it probably does. Our customers can QA”. Meanwhile I’m cleaning up half vibed messes from my coworkers that demo’d well. They’re very powerful, but I think their marketing departments are even more powerful. I do wonder how many of these comments are real people.

RivieraKid 9mo ago
Not much, only the non-paid non-agent stuff. It's pretty impressive but my estimate is at best a 2x productivity jump for general use. My worry is that the agentic stuff is reportedly a significant improvement and getting better quickly.
- farmdawgnation 9mo ago
  IMO If you're not using the tools regularly, you should start from the assumption that you're being heavily influenced by the folks that are trying to sell you something. I'm using these agentic tools for writing and improving software many times a day. The way I describe this to people is that it has changed the balance between "do I need to teach the computer to do this" or "do I just do it myself" farther in realm to the former. It's really good a boilerplate which I think is a welcome thing altogether. It's not actually doing the hard thinking that's required to scale something in production, reconcile a conflict between privacy and functionality effectively for your particular customers, or determine with any reliability what will actually sell.
- johnstenner 9mo ago
  only 2x? :( why are we even bothering at that point
Gud 9mo ago
I use Claude and ChatGPT to build a highly complex piece of software. It is working, and it is working well. It probably helps that I am a skilled programmer while being an expert in another domain. My software development has gone from write/read/execute to read/execute and I’m fine with that.

panarky 9mo ago

Jobs are poison. Why is everyone so worried about poison going away?

palmotea 9mo ago
> Jobs are poison. > Why is everyone so worried about poison going away? Hello, aloof galaxy-brain. If you weren't aware, we live in a capitalist economy. In capitalism, if you don't have money you are in a state we call "poor," which means your life is difficult and your living standards bad. Most people rely on having a job to make money, and usually need a well-paying job to be comfortable and secure. AI isn't going to change any of that. It's not going to make energy, or land or housing more abundant, in fact it will probably make all of those things more scarce. If the future doesn't have "jobs," there will probably be a holocaust of workers before we get there. IMHO, that's more likely that some kind of utopian techno-socialism.
- nano11874 9mo ago
  AI isn't going to change any of that. Are you sure about that? I think the future will be here faster than we imagine
  - palmotea 9mo ago
    >> AI isn't going to change any of that. > Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure. If our society was capable of that kind of adaptation (less/no jobs), it would have done it by now. In fact, the impulse has been in the other direction. AI's not some magic thing, in this way it's no different than any other labor-eliminating technology. > I think the future will be here faster than we imagine Yeah, but that future ain't going to be the utopia promised by AI's salesmen. They're salesmen, and they're saying whatever they need to say to get you to buy in.
- panarky 9mo ago
  A small island has 20 residents. One farmer works full time to grow enough food to feed everyone. One carpenter works full time to maintain housing for everyone. The other 18 people work full time reciting incantations to the gods to prevent their destruction. The farmer and the carpenter are too busy growing food and maintaining housing to recite incantations all day. So each of the 18 incantation reciters spends an extra two hours every week to recite incantations for the farmer and the carpenter to prevent their destruction too. Then a magic stone is discovered that can recite the incantations by itself, the gods are appeased, and nobody has to work full time reciting incantations any more. How can the islanders possibly survive now that 90% of them don't have full-time jobs? The farmer and the carpenter are no worse off, but they think it's unfair that they must continue working full-time while 90% of the residents don't work at all. Perhaps the farmer and the carpenter should destroy the magic stone so that everyone will have full-time jobs again. Or is there some other way the islanders can survive after 90% of the work has been eliminated?

someguyiguess 9mo ago

You guys still have jobs???