5 ms·

So... de-facto mass deanonymisation of all Spanish social media users? I see a lot of supporters of these policies either not acknowledge that you can't identif

So... de-facto mass deanonymisation of all Spanish social media users? I see a lot of supporters of these policies either not acknowledge that you can't identify under-16yo without identifying over-16yos.

chrisjj 9mo ago
> So... de-facto mass deanonymisation of all Spanish social media users? So all Spanish social media users are currently anonymous? I do not think so.
- Markoff 9mo ago
  de iure yes, prosecution would need to prove you was actually using the computer which posted whatever online
  - chrisjj 9mo ago
    > de iure De jure?
    - Markoff 9mo ago
      "Both de iure and de jure are acceptable, with "de iure" being the original Classical Latin spelling and "de jure" the common modern spelling." https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/de-jure-or-de-iure.4031447/ https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/de-jure-or-de-iure.4...
- Hizonner 9mo ago
  There is a difference between "not all, by choice", and "absolutely none, by compulsion". This is something your average 4 year old can easily understand.
arrrg 9mo ago
Age verification is possible without revealing personally identifiable information (beyond old enough yes/no, which is not in any way personally identifiable info) and from my perspective should be a strict requirement with any such laws. In fact, if these laws make the requisite infrastructure (ID cards that offer that functionality) a hard requirement then creating an anonymous web that nevertheless has age checks easier, not harder. What you basically want is an ID card where you as the owner can decide what you want to share with the private business. And for age verification that’s basically just requirement fulfilled yes/no. So if the law is well written then this could be an advantage, not a disadvantage. Preemptive cynicism isn’t helpful here.
- u_sama 9mo ago
  Given the track record of both the country and other EU attempts (despite the existence of a zero trust verification framework) I am quite sure this will be used to de-anonymize users online, see UK.
  - arrrg 9mo ago
    There it rears its ugly head again, the preemptive cynicism that prevents anything good from ever getting done. It’s simple really: zero trust age verification should be a strict requirement of any such law and anything else illegal for age verification. That to me is what has to happen and it’s important to me. That’s my perspective on this – not that‘s never going to happen anyway, so no point in trying to.
    - u_sama 9mo ago
      Its not preemptive, more like reactive, track record is bad and current PM is enshrouded in corruption, so do the maths.
      - toomuchtodo 9mo ago
        Social media is toxic to kids (and adults, but that’s a different matter), extraordinary measures are called for, even with risks. It’s hyper optimized to be the equivalent of a drug, and should be regulated as such.
        gus_massa 9mo ago
        Mass surveillance is toxic too. Choose your poison.
        toomuchtodo 9mo ago
        Impairment of social media systems, for sure.
aacid 9mo ago
You need ID to buy cigarettes and alcohol, prescription drugs or to get sim card... you will need it to register for social network account... do not seem as big of a deal to me. Even less when considering all the positives.
- donglong 9mo ago
  American here. it's a very big deal.
  - kubb 9mo ago
    Thank you for your wisdom, oracle of freedom.
    - donglong 9mo ago
      [flagged]
  - surgical_fire 9mo ago
    Then there's nothing for you here, you don't live in Spain.
    - donglong 8mo ago
      ok i will get in line: the rest of the world first, then america, then the spanish last. as is your wish. if you need us we'll be here.
  - rasz 8mo ago
    American American or 'American' with account registered in Nigeria/India using VPN to post on social media? "How X's new location feature exposed big US politics accounts" https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj38m11218xo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj38m11218xo https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/nov/23/rightwing-influencers-outside-us-x-twitter-tool https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/nov/23/rightwing-in... https://weaponizedspaces.substack.com/p/x-just-accidentally-exposed-a-vast https://weaponizedspaces.substack.com/p/x-just-accidentally-... or maybe VPN using Canadian secessionist from Thailand? https://www.cp24.com/news/canada/2025/12/04/rage-or-real-experts-urge-caution-as-x-reveals-location-data/ https://www.cp24.com/news/canada/2025/12/04/rage-or-real-exp... For Europeans ID is not as big of a deal as losing democracy thru foreign influence manipulating public opinion on a massive scale.
lossyalgo 9mo ago
Yeah this isn't the solution we need. We need to ban addictive dark patterns on ALL platforms for ALL ages.
nehalem 9mo ago
This is a straw-man argument. A public service that can answer whether a one-time key provided by the user to the service fulfills a certain requirement would suffice.
andrepd 9mo ago
False dichotomy. Plenty of governments have a digitalised id/login service to log into the tax office, government portals, whatever. This is usually also offered as a "single sign-on". After signing on, the website can request any piece of information, the list of those pieces is presented to the user, who clicks Accept or Go Back. Pretty standard stuff. Meaning: these websites simply need to request 2 pieces of data: a boolean stating whether you are older than 16 or younger, and a UUID. Zero other pieces of identifying information. Where does the mass deanonymisation enter into this? What does it even mean in the context of using algorithmic social media whose entire business model is surveillance of its users?
- budududuroiu 9mo ago
  > Where does the mass deanonymisation enter into this? How is it not deanonymisation when your tax ID is inextricably linked to your social media profile?
  - andrepd 8mo ago
    Please re-read my comment, if you don't understand I will try to explain in a simpler way.
- Hizonner 9mo ago
  > Where does the mass deanonymisation enter into this? Via the UUID. Also via the fact that the authentication service sees what you're logging into, regardless of whether the social media site does or not. This isn't complicated. It's obvious if you're not desperately trying not to think about it.
  - andrepd 8mo ago
    The UUID is unique per service. All it tells you is that two people are not the same person. The "authentication service" is the national id. The tax man already knows your name, address, date of birth, financial possessions, income, family members, etc etc. There is no further information, apart from which website you logged on and when. This quite literally the standard of Signal [1]. And this is of course assuming the worst from the national id implementation; any sensible law would require the id provider to delete all information as soon as the login is complete.
hn666 9mo ago
While I'm in favour of limiting social media for kids, there doesn't seem to be a right way to do it unless this system doesn't store identification data, just confirms their age and deletes everything.
- deeringc 9mo ago
  It's possible to build an identity system that can assert certain properties about a person (eg. "older than 16") without revealing any other details about that person. Similarly, it's also possible to build such a system where the identity system can attest these details without knowing which website is being accessed. That way, the social media site (or whatever other "adult" service) can validate the user is old enough, while the identity system doesnt track who is using what.
- Markoff 9mo ago
  there is, identify users with anonymous code bought exactly same as cigarettes and alcohol in shops where they don't write down your data or don't even have look at your ID card if you look old enough any age identification done online is not anonymous
scotty79 9mo ago
There was a point in time where I though of social media as an invention that facilitates the freedom of speech. Recent years changed that perception completely. It's a platform where russian oligarchs create discord in Europe cheaply (and the West in general) and American oligarchs profit from it. I don't have any hopes left that the business will deliver us freedom of speech in any form. Next best bet is democratically elected government. When you put on top of this how some things like youth suicides, youth grneral mental health decline, number of people killed in school shootings in US correlates with development of social media I will happily see it burn.
audunw 9mo ago
I am personally going to avoid anonymous social media as much as I can going forward. (Not counting topic-specific forums and such). They have all become toxic cesspools and now AI is making it all so much worse. I’ve stopped using Facebook a long time ago, but started using a similar locally made social media app/site, which is based on logins tied indirectly to national ID. Holy crap it’s so much better. Only real people. No bots or scams. Even the ads are better. Actual relevant local businesses. And people hesitate before writing nasty comments. Not that I’m using it a lot, I’m still not a big social media guy, but having groups for the neighbourhood or town is nice for becoming aware of events and such happening nearby. I still have the Facebook account for now. There’s a group or two I need to check in on sometimes. Every time I log in I get so confused why anyone would still use it.

chrisjj 9mo ago

> So... de-facto mass deanonymisation of all Spanish social media users? So all Spanish social media users are currently anonymous? I do not think so.

Markoff 9mo ago
de iure yes, prosecution would need to prove you was actually using the computer which posted whatever online
- chrisjj 9mo ago
  > de iure De jure?
  - Markoff 9mo ago
    "Both de iure and de jure are acceptable, with "de iure" being the original Classical Latin spelling and "de jure" the common modern spelling." https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/de-jure-or-de-iure.4031447/ https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/de-jure-or-de-iure.4...
Hizonner 9mo ago
There is a difference between "not all, by choice", and "absolutely none, by compulsion". This is something your average 4 year old can easily understand.

arrrg 9mo ago

Age verification is possible without revealing personally identifiable information (beyond old enough yes/no, which is not in any way personally identifiable info) and from my perspective should be a strict requirement with any such laws. In fact, if these laws make the requisite infrastructure (ID cards that offer that functionality) a hard requirement then creating an anonymous web that nevertheless has age checks easier, not harder. What you basically want is an ID card where you as the owner can decide what you want to share with the private business. And for age verification that’s basically just requirement fulfilled yes/no. So if the law is well written then this could be an advantage, not a disadvantage. Preemptive cynicism isn’t helpful here.

u_sama 9mo ago
Given the track record of both the country and other EU attempts (despite the existence of a zero trust verification framework) I am quite sure this will be used to de-anonymize users online, see UK.
- arrrg 9mo ago
  There it rears its ugly head again, the preemptive cynicism that prevents anything good from ever getting done. It’s simple really: zero trust age verification should be a strict requirement of any such law and anything else illegal for age verification. That to me is what has to happen and it’s important to me. That’s my perspective on this – not that‘s never going to happen anyway, so no point in trying to.
  - u_sama 9mo ago
    Its not preemptive, more like reactive, track record is bad and current PM is enshrouded in corruption, so do the maths.
    - toomuchtodo 9mo ago
      Social media is toxic to kids (and adults, but that’s a different matter), extraordinary measures are called for, even with risks. It’s hyper optimized to be the equivalent of a drug, and should be regulated as such.
      - gus_massa 9mo ago
        Mass surveillance is toxic too. Choose your poison.
        toomuchtodo 9mo ago
        Impairment of social media systems, for sure.

aacid 9mo ago

You need ID to buy cigarettes and alcohol, prescription drugs or to get sim card... you will need it to register for social network account... do not seem as big of a deal to me. Even less when considering all the positives.

donglong 9mo ago
American here. it's a very big deal.
- kubb 9mo ago
  Thank you for your wisdom, oracle of freedom.
  - donglong 9mo ago
    [flagged]
- surgical_fire 9mo ago
  Then there's nothing for you here, you don't live in Spain.
  - donglong 8mo ago
    ok i will get in line: the rest of the world first, then america, then the spanish last. as is your wish. if you need us we'll be here.
- rasz 8mo ago
  American American or 'American' with account registered in Nigeria/India using VPN to post on social media? "How X's new location feature exposed big US politics accounts" https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj38m11218xo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj38m11218xo https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/nov/23/rightwing-influencers-outside-us-x-twitter-tool https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/nov/23/rightwing-in... https://weaponizedspaces.substack.com/p/x-just-accidentally-exposed-a-vast https://weaponizedspaces.substack.com/p/x-just-accidentally-... or maybe VPN using Canadian secessionist from Thailand? https://www.cp24.com/news/canada/2025/12/04/rage-or-real-experts-urge-caution-as-x-reveals-location-data/ https://www.cp24.com/news/canada/2025/12/04/rage-or-real-exp... For Europeans ID is not as big of a deal as losing democracy thru foreign influence manipulating public opinion on a massive scale.

lossyalgo 9mo ago

Yeah this isn't the solution we need. We need to ban addictive dark patterns on ALL platforms for ALL ages.

nehalem 9mo ago

This is a straw-man argument. A public service that can answer whether a one-time key provided by the user to the service fulfills a certain requirement would suffice.

andrepd 9mo ago

False dichotomy. Plenty of governments have a digitalised id/login service to log into the tax office, government portals, whatever. This is usually also offered as a "single sign-on". After signing on, the website can request any piece of information, the list of those pieces is presented to the user, who clicks Accept or Go Back. Pretty standard stuff. Meaning: these websites simply need to request 2 pieces of data: a boolean stating whether you are older than 16 or younger, and a UUID. Zero other pieces of identifying information. Where does the mass deanonymisation enter into this? What does it even mean in the context of using algorithmic social media whose entire business model is surveillance of its users?

budududuroiu 9mo ago
> Where does the mass deanonymisation enter into this? How is it not deanonymisation when your tax ID is inextricably linked to your social media profile?
- andrepd 8mo ago
  Please re-read my comment, if you don't understand I will try to explain in a simpler way.
Hizonner 9mo ago
> Where does the mass deanonymisation enter into this? Via the UUID. Also via the fact that the authentication service sees what you're logging into, regardless of whether the social media site does or not. This isn't complicated. It's obvious if you're not desperately trying not to think about it.
- andrepd 8mo ago
  The UUID is unique per service. All it tells you is that two people are not the same person. The "authentication service" is the national id. The tax man already knows your name, address, date of birth, financial possessions, income, family members, etc etc. There is no further information, apart from which website you logged on and when. This quite literally the standard of Signal [1]. And this is of course assuming the worst from the national id implementation; any sensible law would require the id provider to delete all information as soon as the login is complete.

hn666 9mo ago

While I'm in favour of limiting social media for kids, there doesn't seem to be a right way to do it unless this system doesn't store identification data, just confirms their age and deletes everything.

deeringc 9mo ago
It's possible to build an identity system that can assert certain properties about a person (eg. "older than 16") without revealing any other details about that person. Similarly, it's also possible to build such a system where the identity system can attest these details without knowing which website is being accessed. That way, the social media site (or whatever other "adult" service) can validate the user is old enough, while the identity system doesnt track who is using what.
Markoff 9mo ago
there is, identify users with anonymous code bought exactly same as cigarettes and alcohol in shops where they don't write down your data or don't even have look at your ID card if you look old enough any age identification done online is not anonymous

scotty79 9mo ago

There was a point in time where I though of social media as an invention that facilitates the freedom of speech. Recent years changed that perception completely. It's a platform where russian oligarchs create discord in Europe cheaply (and the West in general) and American oligarchs profit from it. I don't have any hopes left that the business will deliver us freedom of speech in any form. Next best bet is democratically elected government. When you put on top of this how some things like youth suicides, youth grneral mental health decline, number of people killed in school shootings in US correlates with development of social media I will happily see it burn.

audunw 9mo ago

I am personally going to avoid anonymous social media as much as I can going forward. (Not counting topic-specific forums and such). They have all become toxic cesspools and now AI is making it all so much worse. I’ve stopped using Facebook a long time ago, but started using a similar locally made social media app/site, which is based on logins tied indirectly to national ID. Holy crap it’s so much better. Only real people. No bots or scams. Even the ads are better. Actual relevant local businesses. And people hesitate before writing nasty comments. Not that I’m using it a lot, I’m still not a big social media guy, but having groups for the neighbourhood or town is nice for becoming aware of events and such happening nearby. I still have the Facebook account for now. There’s a group or two I need to check in on sometimes. Every time I log in I get so confused why anyone would still use it.