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It may be many things, but I very much doubt the motivation is a money grab. A few people paying $45 isn't lining the pockets of some government official, or pl

It may be many things, but I very much doubt the motivation is a money grab. A few people paying $45 isn't lining the pockets of some government official, or plugging a hole in any possible budget. Dealing with the presence of travelers who haven't updated their driver's licenses requires a bunch of extra staff to perform the time-consuming additional verifications. The basic idea is for those staff to be paid by the people using them, rather than by taxpayers and air travelers more generally. As well as there being a small deterrent effect.

Forgeties79 9mo ago
$45 x millions of people (some multiple times) = an incredibly consequential amount of money
- crazygringo 9mo ago
  It's not millions of people, most people get Real ID. In the context of airport security budgets, it's not that much. And it's used for hiring the additional staff required and putting together the identity verification systems they use.
  - Forgeties79 9mo ago
    “Most” people can have it and there’d still be millions (tens of millions, even over 100mill) of people who don’t. Multiple states don’t even require it. That guarantees several million people right there. I think New York is one, so well over 10mill people don’t require it. Do you seriously think most of those people are getting one anyway? Guarantee you there are millions of people without it if not tens of millions. I’d put money on it. So back to the point, we’re talking likely 100’s of millions of dollars. That is nothing to sneeze at. The TSA is an $11bill operation based on a quick search. $500mill (~11mill people) would be 5% of their annual budget.
    - crazygringo 9mo ago
      America only has 340 million people to begin with. Then, half the population doesn't even fly in a given year. Those that do are mostly aware of the RealID requirement and either got it whenever they last renewed their driver's license, or renewed early because their DMV kept mailing them warnings about needing to do so if they wanted to fly. Yes, most people who fly either have it, or are getting it before their next flight. Part of the $45 fee is also to incentivize people to get the RealID, as that will obviously be cheaper for them over the long run. That's the point. It's not to make money. The primary purpose is to get people to use RealID, and to cover the costs of the extra screening for those who don't. For however much more money they take in, you need to subtract the cost of the additional staff they need to hire and pay to handle it, plus the tech systems. Also, remember you can just use a passport instead. That hasn't changed.
      - Forgeties79 9mo ago
        You keep saying “most” which I agreed with for starters and still leaves a ton of people. Also almost half the population flies annually, so we’re starting around 150mill. You need numbers at this point. I am willing to bet millions flying don’t have it. Here’s an article from April 2025: https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/real-id-deadline-may/ https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/real-id-deadline-may/
      - rubyn00bie 9mo ago
        There’s quite a bit of evidence to say there are still millions without one, especially depending on the state, this article is from 9 months ago: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/real-id-deadline-weeks-away-most-states-not-fully-compliant-yet/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/real-id-deadline-weeks-away-mos... I personally have a hard time believing that a “Real” ID that does not verify citizenship or residency is meaningfully different from my current one. I certainly do not believe there are increased costs associated with my existing ID, that would be alleviated with a Real ID. At no point have I ever heard Real ID exists to reduce costs (though if that’s true, I’d love to read how). IMHO it may not be a “cash grab,” but it’s certainly punitive. And, for what it’s worth, there have been no extra steps I’ve had to take or increased screening when using my existing ID for the past year. Same photo machine, same scanner, as everyone else. I will personally just renew my passport to avoid the fee until I need to renew my drivers license.
  - autoexec 9mo ago
    > It's not millions of people, most people get Real ID Those that did had to pay $30-$60 plus fees (actual cost differs by state) to get one and will have to pay that again and again each renewal. This is certainly making money somewhere for somebody and not at all about security
    - Fhch6HQ 9mo ago
      What states do you have to pay for your Real ID every time? Yes, you have to pay to renew your license or photo ID, but the Real ID fee in my state (PA) is one-time. Renewal costs are the same whether it's a Real ID or not.
      - FireBeyond 9mo ago
        California would be one, because they issue Real IDs to non-citizens that are tied to their documentation, which needs to be reviewed each time.
        davchana 9mo ago
        to add, fee for Real ID marker on Limited Term license covers 5 years, so if one gets lets say a license for 2 years (& had to pay for 5 years), the next renewals/updates within those 5 years are free.
      - trailbits 9mo ago
        WA state it is an extra $56 every time you renew for Real ID
  - ehasbrouck 9mo ago
    As of the imposition of start of this new fee/fine, about 200,000 people a day fly without ID or without REAL-ID: https://papersplease.org/wp/2025/05/28/200000-people-a-day-fly-without-real-id/ https://papersplease.org/wp/2025/05/28/200000-people-a-day-f... - At $45 a pop, that would bring in >$3B a year. "A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking about real money."
    - Fhch6HQ 9mo ago
      That's a really disappointing source. The headline is '200,000 people a day fly without REAL-ID', which starts out quite interesting. It then goes on to explain that the TSA has reported 93% of traveler's complied with REAL ID, citing a TSA blog from a week prior which in fact states the same. They then take this and couple it with a single day, which they state was the busiest travel day of the Memorial Day weekend, and extrapolate that 7% of the travelers that day must've failed to provide a REAL ID. For the sake of conversation, this is a reasonable statement. Going back and using it to suggest 200k fly without it on a typical day is not reasonable, nor is your suggestion that a 6 months later it's still at 7% (or even typical travel volume hasn't changed.) There has to be better data available. I was curious about this, so I looked up travel volume. YTD the daily average is 2,130,136 passengers. At 7%, this is 149,109.5 passengers or $2.449 B a year in fees. This ignores that you only pay the fee once very 10 days and assumes that all travelers pay the fee on every occurrence.
      - NewJazz 9mo ago
        The number you came up with is still in the same order of magnitude of the source...
      - Forgeties79 9mo ago
        This is such an odd point that some of you are arguing. You’re nitpicking numbers (some of you incorrectly) and sidestepping the main issue entirely. None of you are providing sources, you’re just handwaving away saying “this will barely impact anybody” basically. It’s such an odd argument and I don’t get the point. The point is that lots of people will pay this fee and it will equal a large amount of money and it does nothing of value. It’s just a fee for the fee’s sake. It serves no practical purpose, it’s just punitive. What is the actual legitimate purpose of this fee that millions will likely pay? Almost half the country flies annually and multiple states don’t require a RealID in the first place. So we’re talking millions of people, some of which will pay it multiple times, per year until full compliance. This is built to net a consequential amount of money and it doesn’t seem like it’s for any purpose other than to generate revenue at people’s expense. It does not make flying safer. It doesn’t even pretend to make flying safer. It doesn’t cover some cost. You can fly without it. It’s an arbitrary tax that will mostly be paid by people who can’t or won’t take the time to go to the DMV to get an ID that is not even required to replace the perfectly good one they already have. At the end of the day this is why nobody has gotten it! They keep saying you need to get it (years now) but you don’t actually need to. If it’s that important then they should say “you cannot get on an airplane without one.” But it isn’t, so they don’t, and now that’s just a revenue opportunity.
- sixtyj 9mo ago
  But everyone would have to take advantage of that benefit not having ID have with themselves.
- fragmede 9mo ago
  The roughly 7.6 million CLEAR members paying $209/yr grosses them north of $1 billion/year. It's not hard to see why TSA wants to get in on it.
  - jacobgkau 9mo ago
    CLEAR members are going out of their way to register their info in a biometric identification system. I don't think the people avoiding REAL IDs are the same demographic.
    - Forgeties79 9mo ago
      Laziness comes in many forms
- hypeatei 9mo ago
  Assuming 100M "classic" ID checks (being generous): congrats, you just paid for two days of running the military!
  - doctorwho42 9mo ago
    So trump can use this money to invade and finish taking over Greenland!
    - Forgeties79 9mo ago
      Right after he finishes the wall Mexico is paying for I’m sure
  - Forgeties79 9mo ago
    5% of TSA’s annual budget ain’t nothing to scoff at.
tssva 9mo ago
There is no legal requirement to show id or answer any questions to establish identification before flying. In other words there is no extra work required by law which the fee would cover.
- crazygringo 9mo ago
  The TSA is literally doing all this extra work though, whether or not you think it's required by law. They're not just pocketing the $45 and then blindly waving you ahead.
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
  - eli 9mo ago
    Flying without ID just gets you the full patdown treatment. It’s not like they’re tracking down people to vouch for you.
    - deleted 9mo ago
      [deleted]
    - crazygringo 9mo ago
      I don't know what you mean by "full patdown treatment", but they're absolutely tracking down your information in databases and interviewing you about it. See replies to: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46864182 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46864182 It's absolutely not just enhanced physical screening.
      - deleted 9mo ago
        [deleted]
    - chickensong 9mo ago
      It's not just a patdown. They take you to a phone booth that has a direct line to some portion of the FBI IIRC, and they ask you a bunch of questions to confirm your identity. At least this is what happened to me about ten years ago when I lost my wallet in a different state and needed to fly home.
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
Braxton1980 9mo ago
Is this the case, I didn't see it in the article. If they have to perform extra work then I'd say it's justified. If it's just a punishment for not getting a real ID I'm not sure if that's fair

Forgeties79 9mo ago

$45 x millions of people (some multiple times) = an incredibly consequential amount of money

crazygringo 9mo ago
It's not millions of people, most people get Real ID. In the context of airport security budgets, it's not that much. And it's used for hiring the additional staff required and putting together the identity verification systems they use.
- Forgeties79 9mo ago
  “Most” people can have it and there’d still be millions (tens of millions, even over 100mill) of people who don’t. Multiple states don’t even require it. That guarantees several million people right there. I think New York is one, so well over 10mill people don’t require it. Do you seriously think most of those people are getting one anyway? Guarantee you there are millions of people without it if not tens of millions. I’d put money on it. So back to the point, we’re talking likely 100’s of millions of dollars. That is nothing to sneeze at. The TSA is an $11bill operation based on a quick search. $500mill (~11mill people) would be 5% of their annual budget.
  - crazygringo 9mo ago
    America only has 340 million people to begin with. Then, half the population doesn't even fly in a given year. Those that do are mostly aware of the RealID requirement and either got it whenever they last renewed their driver's license, or renewed early because their DMV kept mailing them warnings about needing to do so if they wanted to fly. Yes, most people who fly either have it, or are getting it before their next flight. Part of the $45 fee is also to incentivize people to get the RealID, as that will obviously be cheaper for them over the long run. That's the point. It's not to make money. The primary purpose is to get people to use RealID, and to cover the costs of the extra screening for those who don't. For however much more money they take in, you need to subtract the cost of the additional staff they need to hire and pay to handle it, plus the tech systems. Also, remember you can just use a passport instead. That hasn't changed.
    - Forgeties79 9mo ago
      You keep saying “most” which I agreed with for starters and still leaves a ton of people. Also almost half the population flies annually, so we’re starting around 150mill. You need numbers at this point. I am willing to bet millions flying don’t have it. Here’s an article from April 2025: https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/real-id-deadline-may/ https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/real-id-deadline-may/
    - rubyn00bie 9mo ago
      There’s quite a bit of evidence to say there are still millions without one, especially depending on the state, this article is from 9 months ago: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/real-id-deadline-weeks-away-most-states-not-fully-compliant-yet/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/real-id-deadline-weeks-away-mos... I personally have a hard time believing that a “Real” ID that does not verify citizenship or residency is meaningfully different from my current one. I certainly do not believe there are increased costs associated with my existing ID, that would be alleviated with a Real ID. At no point have I ever heard Real ID exists to reduce costs (though if that’s true, I’d love to read how). IMHO it may not be a “cash grab,” but it’s certainly punitive. And, for what it’s worth, there have been no extra steps I’ve had to take or increased screening when using my existing ID for the past year. Same photo machine, same scanner, as everyone else. I will personally just renew my passport to avoid the fee until I need to renew my drivers license.
- autoexec 9mo ago
  > It's not millions of people, most people get Real ID Those that did had to pay $30-$60 plus fees (actual cost differs by state) to get one and will have to pay that again and again each renewal. This is certainly making money somewhere for somebody and not at all about security
  - Fhch6HQ 9mo ago
    What states do you have to pay for your Real ID every time? Yes, you have to pay to renew your license or photo ID, but the Real ID fee in my state (PA) is one-time. Renewal costs are the same whether it's a Real ID or not.
    - FireBeyond 9mo ago
      California would be one, because they issue Real IDs to non-citizens that are tied to their documentation, which needs to be reviewed each time.
      - davchana 9mo ago
        to add, fee for Real ID marker on Limited Term license covers 5 years, so if one gets lets say a license for 2 years (& had to pay for 5 years), the next renewals/updates within those 5 years are free.
    - trailbits 9mo ago
      WA state it is an extra $56 every time you renew for Real ID
- ehasbrouck 9mo ago
  As of the imposition of start of this new fee/fine, about 200,000 people a day fly without ID or without REAL-ID: https://papersplease.org/wp/2025/05/28/200000-people-a-day-fly-without-real-id/ https://papersplease.org/wp/2025/05/28/200000-people-a-day-f... - At $45 a pop, that would bring in >$3B a year. "A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking about real money."
  - Fhch6HQ 9mo ago
    That's a really disappointing source. The headline is '200,000 people a day fly without REAL-ID', which starts out quite interesting. It then goes on to explain that the TSA has reported 93% of traveler's complied with REAL ID, citing a TSA blog from a week prior which in fact states the same. They then take this and couple it with a single day, which they state was the busiest travel day of the Memorial Day weekend, and extrapolate that 7% of the travelers that day must've failed to provide a REAL ID. For the sake of conversation, this is a reasonable statement. Going back and using it to suggest 200k fly without it on a typical day is not reasonable, nor is your suggestion that a 6 months later it's still at 7% (or even typical travel volume hasn't changed.) There has to be better data available. I was curious about this, so I looked up travel volume. YTD the daily average is 2,130,136 passengers. At 7%, this is 149,109.5 passengers or $2.449 B a year in fees. This ignores that you only pay the fee once very 10 days and assumes that all travelers pay the fee on every occurrence.
    - NewJazz 9mo ago
      The number you came up with is still in the same order of magnitude of the source...
    - Forgeties79 9mo ago
      This is such an odd point that some of you are arguing. You’re nitpicking numbers (some of you incorrectly) and sidestepping the main issue entirely. None of you are providing sources, you’re just handwaving away saying “this will barely impact anybody” basically. It’s such an odd argument and I don’t get the point. The point is that lots of people will pay this fee and it will equal a large amount of money and it does nothing of value. It’s just a fee for the fee’s sake. It serves no practical purpose, it’s just punitive. What is the actual legitimate purpose of this fee that millions will likely pay? Almost half the country flies annually and multiple states don’t require a RealID in the first place. So we’re talking millions of people, some of which will pay it multiple times, per year until full compliance. This is built to net a consequential amount of money and it doesn’t seem like it’s for any purpose other than to generate revenue at people’s expense. It does not make flying safer. It doesn’t even pretend to make flying safer. It doesn’t cover some cost. You can fly without it. It’s an arbitrary tax that will mostly be paid by people who can’t or won’t take the time to go to the DMV to get an ID that is not even required to replace the perfectly good one they already have. At the end of the day this is why nobody has gotten it! They keep saying you need to get it (years now) but you don’t actually need to. If it’s that important then they should say “you cannot get on an airplane without one.” But it isn’t, so they don’t, and now that’s just a revenue opportunity.
sixtyj 9mo ago
But everyone would have to take advantage of that benefit not having ID have with themselves.
fragmede 9mo ago
The roughly 7.6 million CLEAR members paying $209/yr grosses them north of $1 billion/year. It's not hard to see why TSA wants to get in on it.
- jacobgkau 9mo ago
  CLEAR members are going out of their way to register their info in a biometric identification system. I don't think the people avoiding REAL IDs are the same demographic.
  - Forgeties79 9mo ago
    Laziness comes in many forms
hypeatei 9mo ago
Assuming 100M "classic" ID checks (being generous): congrats, you just paid for two days of running the military!
- doctorwho42 9mo ago
  So trump can use this money to invade and finish taking over Greenland!
  - Forgeties79 9mo ago
    Right after he finishes the wall Mexico is paying for I’m sure
- Forgeties79 9mo ago
  5% of TSA’s annual budget ain’t nothing to scoff at.

tssva 9mo ago

There is no legal requirement to show id or answer any questions to establish identification before flying. In other words there is no extra work required by law which the fee would cover.

crazygringo 9mo ago
The TSA is literally doing all this extra work though, whether or not you think it's required by law. They're not just pocketing the $45 and then blindly waving you ahead.
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
- eli 9mo ago
  Flying without ID just gets you the full patdown treatment. It’s not like they’re tracking down people to vouch for you.
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
  - crazygringo 9mo ago
    I don't know what you mean by "full patdown treatment", but they're absolutely tracking down your information in databases and interviewing you about it. See replies to: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46864182 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46864182 It's absolutely not just enhanced physical screening.
    - deleted 9mo ago
      [deleted]
  - chickensong 9mo ago
    It's not just a patdown. They take you to a phone booth that has a direct line to some portion of the FBI IIRC, and they ask you a bunch of questions to confirm your identity. At least this is what happened to me about ten years ago when I lost my wallet in a different state and needed to fly home.

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]

Braxton1980 9mo ago

Is this the case, I didn't see it in the article. If they have to perform extra work then I'd say it's justified. If it's just a punishment for not getting a real ID I'm not sure if that's fair