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From the Big Short (movie) Jared Vennett (narration): "In the years that followed, hundreds of bankers and rating agency's executives went to jail. The SEC was
by eduardogarza 8mo ago
From the Big Short (movie)
Jared Vennett (narration):
"In the years that followed, hundreds of bankers and rating agency's executives went to jail. The SEC was completely overhauled, and Congress had no choice but to break up the big banks and regulate the mortgage and derivatives industries."
"Just kidding. Banks took the money the American people gave them, and they used it to pay themselves huge bonuses, and lobby the Congress to kill big reform. And then they blamed immigrants and poor people, and this time even teachers."
- woah 8mo agoIt's messed up that Grok underwrote all those subprime mortgages in 2008
- bandrami 8mo agoI think the argument is that it's messed up that a large debt swap from xAI kept Musk's margin on Twitter from being called by his investors, and now that debt is being absorbed by SpaceX.
- andsoitis 8mo ago> Musk's margin on Twitter from being called by his investors, Primary and largest investors in X are: Elon Musk, Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, Larry Ellison, Jack Dorsey. I don't know that you need to worry about their financial well-being or that they are getting a raw deal.
- hayd 8mo agoI think people are more concerned about SpaceX getting the raw deal here.
- bandrami 8mo agoAnd specifically that if the music is about to stop SpaceX has an implicit government backstop
- wlesieutre 8mo agoIt doesn't have to; the government's rescue of GM in 2008 killed a bunch of brands that they owned. But given the current administration, I don't have a lot of faith in the government looking out for anyone else's interests here.
- andsoitis 8mo ago> SpaceX getting the raw deal here. Have they complained?
- acdha 8mo agoYou’re really asking whether anyone at a private company is publicly speaking up against the famously emotional and vindictive owner?
- andsoitis 8mo agoYes. People are saying they’re worried that the poor private investors of SpaceX are getting the short end of the stick. That seems like misplaced concerned for an investor class that really aren’t suffering.
- bandrami 8mo agoWell, no, the worry is that xAI's bondholders, who are also Twitter's bondholders, will be indemnified from any loss on those bonds at public expense because they are now also SpaceX bondholders and SpaceX is a national security interest of the US.
- andsoitis 8mo ago> bonds at public expense because they are now also SpaceX bondholders and SpaceX is a national security interest of the US. If our elected officials have done a poor job diversifying risk by not just depending on one single supplied, they are to blame and we should hold them accountable. But, is that even the case?
- acdha 8mo agoThis thread specifically excluded the big investors, but they too have nothing but loss popping the bubble: Musk has been talking up the value of their investment. If they criticize in public, they’re just costing themselves money — much safer to sell and walk away.
- 8mo ago
- bandrami 8mo agoYeah, the financial well-being of those investors is not what people are worried about here
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- SilasX 8mo agoWhoa, I had to do a double-take on the Dorsey mention -- like, didn't he take the money and run while laughing at the folks that overpaid? But it seems he's retained a 2.4% ownership stake in Twitter/X, according to Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Dorsey#Twitter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Dorsey#Twitter Still, don't make the mistake I did, which was to read the above comment to mean "he put more money in at the time of the buyout", since he was called an "investor in X".
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- 0xy 8mo agoWhere's the government bailout in this transaction that would make this a relevant comparison?
- skywhopper 8mo agoWho is SpaceX’s biggest customer? And which industry are we being told by any number of governments around the world is the most importantly thing ever and must be subsidized and forced on people?
- andsoitis 8mo ago> Who is SpaceX’s biggest customer? It is estimated that Starlink is, accounting for 70% - 80% of revenue. Sources: [1] and [2] NASA is SpaceX's biggest external customer for rocket launch services. Although NASA is SpaceX’s largest external customer for traditional launch services, the company earns far more revenue from Starlink customers (millions of subscribers). So overall Starlink itself is SpaceX’s biggest revenue generator and de facto largest customer segment. [1] https://pestel-analysis.com/blogs/target-market/spacex https://pestel-analysis.com/blogs/target-market/spacex [2] https://londoneconomics.co.uk/blog/publication/crouching-rivals-not-so-hidden-dragon-spacex-and-the-future-of-launch-competition-part-1 https://londoneconomics.co.uk/blog/publication/crouching-riv...
- robocat 8mo agoFrom [2] (abridged): NASA contracts alone have exceeded $13 billion since 2015, with $1.1 billion expected for 2025. The U.S. Space Force awarded $845 million for 2025 and $733 million for 2024. Commercial satellite operators are estimated to contribute between $2.5 billion and $3 billion in 2025.
- adventured 8mo agoSpaceX saves its biggest customer money by being the superior, cheaper launch option. The alternative was ULA, which was an extraordinarily expensive monster. Please highlight the problems you have with how it pertains to this context, how the biggest customer is harmed. What do you care if its private owners are willing to absorb the mess that is xAI?
- dmix 8mo agoSpaceX is a private company
- throawayonthe 8mo agoso are the banks?
- andsoitis 8mo ago>> SpaceX is a private company > so are the banks? Which relevant bank do you have in mind that is not a public company (listed on a stock exchange)?
- cj 8mo agoCheck back in 2 years to see if your statement is still true. SpaceX is planning the largest IPO in history aiming for over a trillion dollars in market cap
- drdec 8mo agoAll this is happening before then, no? So people can take that into account when pricing IPO shares, or deciding if the IPO ask is too high.
- slowmovintarget 8mo agoStep 1: Merge xAI and SpaceX Step 2: IPO SpaceX Step 3: Merge Tesla and SpaceX x xAI (which would have been tricky if they were still private).
- raincole 8mo agoI really don't know what you're trying to say. From your comment alone the conclusion I drew was that we should spend more on the industries that makes physical instead of financial products, such as SpaceX.
- caust1c 8mo agoThe sequence of events: Elon doing a leveraged buyout of X, then xAI funding, then debt transfers to X, then the xAI–X stock deal. Now the proposed SpaceX–xAI merger appears to have shifted X’s financial burden from Musk personally toward xAI investors and, potentially, future SpaceX shareholders. This is speculative, of course, but yeah seems likely.
- lotsofpulp 8mo agoSo what? People who buy SpaceX shares should take into account all of its debt when deciding how much to pay for a share.
- estearum 8mo agoJust like people should've thought about all the Related Party transactions when deciding how much to pay for Enron.
- lotsofpulp 8mo agoAre you suggesting there is straight up Enron style legally defined fraud in this deal? What is being hidden? And yes, agency risk is always a thing. It’s part of life.
- ahmeneeroe-v2 8mo agoWon't someone think of the future SpaceX shareholders!
- drsalt 8mo ago
- Fogest 8mo agoI feel like without adding some commentary with these quotes this comment lacks enough info to see how it relates to the linked article.
- late2part 8mo ago[flagged]
- crystal_revenge 8mo agoBecause this move is entirely financial engineering to hide losses just like the roll up of X in to xAI. None of this has anything to do with business or innovation. Do you not immediately see that? Most of my friends reaction to this news was that this is so obvious it's almost funny (or actually it is funny, since most were laughing as they read the headline). I'm curious how you could not understand the relevance of the quote unless you were aggressively trying to not understanding it.
- livefeather 8mo ago> I'm curious how you could not understand the relevance of the quote unless you were aggressively trying to not understanding it. Monet probably wondered how other people couldn't see purple in a haystack.
- reverius42 8mo ago[flagged]
- senectus1 8mo agoyeah, I am not a huge fan of Musk, but this move is just going to bring down arguably the only decent thing he's produced. Leave SpaceX alone you child. Gwynne has it in excellent hands.. find some other way to pay for your juvenile brainfarts.
- tialaramex 8mo ago
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- iqster 8mo agoSerious question .. are you long on cash or what? What investment class is not overvalued? Gold is but a store of value and doesn't really grow - look at how high it has gone.