7 ms·

I honestly wonder whether the EU can afford to spend on technological sovereignty. With an aging population and the need to maintain welfare states, governments

I honestly wonder whether the EU can afford to spend on technological sovereignty. With an aging population and the need to maintain welfare states, governments will have to allocate more and more of future budgets to expanding and sustaining welfare programs (statutory health insurance, pensions, unemployment benefits, etc.). That ultimately means higher taxes, a larger government workforce, and a shrinking private sector. Maybe they will have enough money to maintain the existing status quo, but not sure where the additional capital would come from to invest in digital sovereignty.

alephnerd 9mo ago
The EU has the capacity, but will be working closely with other partners like India, Japan, South Korea, Israel, Vietnam, and the UAE as capital and/or technology partners. For example, Eutelsat - which is providing the backbone for GOVSATCOM and IRIS2 - is a three-way partnership between India's Bharti Group (Sunil Mittal), the French, and the UK. Or GCAP where Japan's Mitsubishi Group is acting as both a technology and capital partner to Italy and the UK. This was also a major driver behind the EU-India Defense Pact and the EU-Vietnam Comprehensive Strategic Partnership - both of which were overshadowed by the EU-India FTA. A multilateral organization like the EU has the muscle to integrate and cooperate with other partners, which is something that shouldn't be underestimated, as this builds resilience via redundancy. Edit: Interesting how this is the second time [0] in the past few weeks where an HN comment I wrote that was optimistic about the EU's capacity was downvoted. There's a reason the PRC is still conducting industrial espionage on EU institutions [1]. [0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46696996 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46696996 [1] - https://www.intelligenceonline.fr/asie-pacifique/2026/01/14/mise-en-examen-d-un-mathematicien-bordelais-pour-intelligence-avec-la-chine,110600268-art https://www.intelligenceonline.fr/asie-pacifique/2026/01/14/...
- Fnoord 9mo ago
  > Interesting how this is the second time [0] in the past few weeks where an HN comment I wrote that was optimistic about the EU's capacity was downvoted. Nothing new there, but I wouldn't assume Chinese bot army being behind it. The Russians, American MAGA, European alt-right each have an interest in such suppression (and RU and USA also conduct industrial espionage on EU). You may assume each of these parties is present in a thread about European sovereignty, but either way the mods discourage any discussion about moderation. You're best off emailing one of them.
  - alephnerd 9mo ago
    Absolutely, but negating and distracting from the fact that EU governments have been publicly calling out Chinese disinfo ops [0][1] over the past 2-3 years to a degree not seen since Russia began hybrid warfare against the EU in the 2010s is unneccesary. [0] - https://www.defense.gouv.fr/desinformation/nos-analyses-froid/decryptage-desinformation-au-service-competition-industrielle https://www.defense.gouv.fr/desinformation/nos-analyses-froi... [1] - https://www.universiteitleiden.nl/nieuws/2024/10/nederlandse-media-onvoldoende-voorbereid-op-psychologische-intimidatie-china https://www.universiteitleiden.nl/nieuws/2024/10/nederlandse...
- sajithdilshan 9mo ago
  But then again it won't be sovereign. EU has been doing the same with US companies and now they are switching US for a different country/countries
  - alephnerd 9mo ago
    Sovereignty doesn't mean autarky - it means having the capacity to maintain operations and pivot should a black swan event arise. The EU is a transnational bloc that has had experience helping it's member states find niches of competitive advantage and take full advantage of that. Germany doesn't need to fully replicate Denmark's biopharma pipeline nor does Denmark have the need to fully replicate Germany's nuclear submarine IP because both can and have continued to coexist with each other and build resilience through additonal partnerships which prevent one from dominating the other. This is the modus operandi of EU soverignity - integrate players into following a set of collective norms and aligning each other's incentives with the larger collective. This is why EU's grand strategy incorporates the industrial base of other regional powers like Japan, SK, India, Vietnam, Canada, Australia, UAE, Israel, etc because it increasingly aligns all these regional powers against domination from either the US or China.
- baklavaEmperor 9mo ago
  If trust is the constraint, Israel’s track record makes it an odd choice for EU sovereign systems.
  - alephnerd 9mo ago
    France and Israel have been collaborating on defense technology for decades - it was France that helped Israel become a nuclear power [0]. There are similar collaborations with Czechia [1], Estonia [2], Lithuania [3], Romania [4] and Germany [5]. Additionally, Israel has a defense pact with Greece and Cyprus to protect them against Turkish aggression [6], which is more than what other EU states are providing to Greece and Cyprus. This is why Israel is a critical part of the EU's multilateral defense fabric - Eastern Mediterranean and CEE EU member states are already close partners with Israel. [0] - https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000271219.pdf https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000271219.pdf [1] - https://www.czdefence.cz/clanek/cesko-izraelska-spoluprace-v-oblasti-obrany-nabyva-na-dulezitosti https://www.czdefence.cz/clanek/cesko-izraelska-spoluprace-v... [2] - https://vm.ee/sites/default/files/documents/2025-09/Israel%20DefenceTech%20Report.pdf https://vm.ee/sites/default/files/documents/2025-09/Israel%2... [3] - https://www.gov.cy/proedros-proedria/koini-diakiryxi-tis-10i-trimerous-synodou-metaxy-tis-kypriakis-dimokratias-tis-ellinikis-dimokratias-kai-tou-kratous-tou-israil/ https://www.gov.cy/proedros-proedria/koini-diakiryxi-tis-10i... [4] - https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/romania-buy-israeli-anti-aircraft-systems-23-bln-2025-07-21/ https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/romania-b... [5] - https://www.iai.co.il/israel-aerospace-industries-announces-31-billion-usd-contract-expansion-arrow-3-missile-defense https://www.iai.co.il/israel-aerospace-industries-announces-... [6] - https://www.gov.cy/proedros-proedria/koini-diakiryxi-tis-10i-trimerous-synodou-metaxy-tis-kypriakis-dimokratias-tis-ellinikis-dimokratias-kai-tou-kratous-tou-israil/ https://www.gov.cy/proedros-proedria/koini-diakiryxi-tis-10i...
    - lava_pidgeon 9mo ago
      I like your post as it offers me new insights. 1.) not all cee countries are pro-israel. Especially Poland as the biggest country there is rather anti - Israel. 2.) Most European countries and almost eu countries are part of NATO. Thus Greece is protected by Article 5. In addition there is Article 42 from the EU. In a.potential Cyprus - Greece - Turkey Eu has more to offer than Israel military wise.
notahacker 9mo ago
Most of the "digital sovereignty" stuff is spending money on companies that intend to sell services at a profit and pay taxes on it. So they absolutely can afford to do it (and governments have more routes to getting money back than just exits) provided you back the right companies. That's probably more easily achieved in digital sovereignty than space launch though.
- sajithdilshan 9mo ago
  You mean government subsidizing the companies and taxing them in return? How is that a viable model? Also subsidizing means tax payers put on the burden and there is no guarantee that the companies subsidized by the governments would turn a profit or just burn through the subsidies and go bankrupt.
  - notahacker 9mo ago
    > You mean government subsidizing the companies and taxing them in return?How is that a viable model? You're asking how it can be viable to give money to unprofitable companies in the hope that some of them will repay it by becoming very profitable in future on a website run by YC? Really?
    - sajithdilshan 9mo ago
      Exactly the point. YC is playing lotto with private venture. The governments cannot play lotto with the tax payers money.
      - wongarsu 9mo ago
        Of course they can. Not investing in your own economy and infrastructure just because outcomes aren't guaranteed would be the insane policy
        sajithdilshan 9mo ago
        Investing in infrastructure and economy and playing lotto with tax payers money in random companies is two different things. By your definition the government could just put all tax money into stock market and hope for the best.
philipwhiuk 9mo ago
> With an aging population and the need to maintain welfare states, governments will have to allocate more and more of future budgets to expanding and sustaining welfare programs (statutory health insurance, pensions, unemployment benefits, etc.). That ultimately means higher taxes, a larger government workforce, and a shrinking private sector. All of this is also true in the US.
- alephnerd 9mo ago
  And China excluding the welfare part - China has an extremely weak welfare system for a state at it's economic level and the Xi admin remains deeply opposed to what it derogatorily terms as "Welfarism" [0]. [0] - http://theory.people.com.cn/n1/2021/1116/c40531-32283350.html http://theory.people.com.cn/n1/2021/1116/c40531-32283350.htm...
- nradov 9mo ago
  That's true of all developed countries to a degree, but the USA still has a significantly better demographic profile than the EU.
  - overfeed 9mo ago
    Mostly due to immigration into the US, and I wouldn't hang my coat on this staying the same.
- sajithdilshan 9mo ago
  Not really, US population would continue to grow, while EU declines[1] [1] https://ourworldindata.org/data-insights/india-china-europe-and-the-united-states-are-on-very-different-population-paths https://ourworldindata.org/data-insights/india-china-europe-...
jcfrei 9mo ago
Not sure why you are getting downvoted - I'm wondering the same thing. Catching up is inherently more expensive than just maintaining a lead. And on top of that the EU pensioners will oppose any reallocation of resources outside of their retirement / pension schemes. The EU does have more fiscal headroom than the US, ie. lower debt per GDP and lower debt per capita - so through borrowing they could mobilize some more funds. But that's about it and I'm doubtful that's going to be enough.
- sajithdilshan 9mo ago
  I guess a lot of Europeans don't want to see the real logical questioning and downvoting out of pure frustration. Also EU doesn't have fiscal freedom. Germany is the only country barely keeping it together and without any hard reform France is a ticking time bomb when it come to its debt-to-GDP.
  - nona 9mo ago
    France debt-to-GDP: 115-117% US debt-to-GDP: 124%
    - sajithdilshan 9mo ago
      US has a huge advantage compared to France. US has the control of its currency and can devalue it. France cannot do it since Euro is not controlled by France.
numpad0 9mo ago
"Arianespace is pathetically behind the times as launch services provider and no one is even cost competitive with SpaceX" types of offhand Internet comments are just literal propaganda with zero substance. [WARN] messages on Linux Kernel consoles bear more importance than those.
pjc50 9mo ago
"EU welfare state" is a meme that doesn't survive looking closely at the actual figures. Especially if you compare things like state pensions properly; the US moves these into a different column labelled "social security", but that doesn't mean they're not part of the state! Note that the alternative is sending money overseas to rent US infrastructure. It may make a lot of sense to deploy spending locally where it stays in the economy rather than overseas, a standard "import substitution" play.
- amarcheschi 9mo ago
  Plus, us already spends much more on healthcare per capita than other countries https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#GDP%20per%20capita%20and%20health%20consumption%20spending%20per%20capita,%20U.S.%20dollars,%202023%20(current%20prices%20and%20PPP%20adjusted)%C2%A0 https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-...
  - overfeed 9mo ago
    > Plus, [USA] already spends much more... but the US is somehow simultaneously less of a welfare/nanny state. I suppose that is a tell: it's not about the actual monetary amounts, but about the national priorities posture and political alignment.
  - realusername 9mo ago
    And that's only going to increase as the boomer generation is going to need more and more healthcare.
- celeritascelery 9mo ago
  While the EU welfare is not that much larger than the US (maybe 5% more of GDP), the US also has much more money, a larger portion of the population working, and higher population growth. They also have the technical and business knowledge in tech that the EU lacks (e.g. silicon, rocketry, hyperscalers, etc).
  - 9mo ago
seydor 9mo ago
china has been an invaluable partner. Green energy supplies a large part of energy consumed in europe now, and car electrification has become popular thanks to cheap chinese EVs. I will not be surprised to see chinese drones or weapons too
- pjc50 9mo ago
  Chinese drones yes, there's no equivalent of the US DJI ban as far as I'm aware. China have been supplying both sides in the Ukraine war. Chinese weapons .. no. Plenty of traditional EU arms companies to do that, and this is one area where I'm OK with the traditional EU protectionism. A more interesting question is the two big countries which are part of NATO, on the European continent, but NOT part of the EU: UK and Turkey.
- alephnerd 9mo ago
  > china has been an invaluable partner The PRC has stated it will continue to back Russia against Ukraine [0] which is a red line for the EU. Additionally, the PRC has been running disinfo ops against EU member states tech exports [1] while still attempting industrial espionage on European institutions [2]. China will not become a trusted partner of the EU as long as: 1. It continues to conduct industrial espionage against EU institutions 2. Attempts to undermine EU industrial and dual use exports 3. It continues to support Russia diplomatically and materially at the expense of Ukraine 4. It attempts to undermine the EU as an institution [3][4][5][6] 5. It continues to threaten EU nationals through physical [7] and legal [8] intimidation. It's the same reason trust has reduced in the US as well. --- [0] - https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3316875/china-tells-eu-it-cannot-afford-russian-loss-ukraine-war-sources-say https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3316875/ch... [1] - https://www.defense.gouv.fr/desinformation/nos-analyses-froid/decryptage-desinformation-au-service-competition-industrielle https://www.defense.gouv.fr/desinformation/nos-analyses-froi... [2] - https://www.intelligenceonline.fr/asie-pacifique/2026/01/14/mise-en-examen-d-un-mathematicien-bordelais-pour-intelligence-avec-la-chine,110600268-art https://www.intelligenceonline.fr/asie-pacifique/2026/01/14/... [3] - https://fddi.fudan.edu.cn/_t2515/57/f8/c21257a743416/page.htm https://fddi.fudan.edu.cn/_t2515/57/f8/c21257a743416/page.ht... [4] - https://www.ft.com/content/1ed0b791-a447-48f4-9c38-abbf5f2837a6 https://www.ft.com/content/1ed0b791-a447-48f4-9c38-abbf5f283... [5] - https://www.ft.com/content/81700fc4-8f23-4bec-87e9-59a83f215431 https://www.ft.com/content/81700fc4-8f23-4bec-87e9-59a83f215... [6] - https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/ex-mitarbeiter-krah-spionage-urteil-100.html https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/ex-mitarbeiter... [7] - https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2024/07/02/deux-espions-chinois-pries-de-quitter-la-france-apres-la-tentative-de-rapatriement-force-d-un-ressortissant_6246161_3224.html https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2024/07/02/deux-espio... [8] - https://www.intelligenceonline.fr/asie-pacifique/2025/12/23/intimidations-chinoises-en-europe--pekin-opte-pour-l-arme-juridique,110582903-art https://www.intelligenceonline.fr/asie-pacifique/2025/12/23/...

alephnerd 9mo ago

The EU has the capacity, but will be working closely with other partners like India, Japan, South Korea, Israel, Vietnam, and the UAE as capital and/or technology partners. For example, Eutelsat - which is providing the backbone for GOVSATCOM and IRIS2 - is a three-way partnership between India's Bharti Group (Sunil Mittal), the French, and the UK. Or GCAP where Japan's Mitsubishi Group is acting as both a technology and capital partner to Italy and the UK. This was also a major driver behind the EU-India Defense Pact and the EU-Vietnam Comprehensive Strategic Partnership - both of which were overshadowed by the EU-India FTA. A multilateral organization like the EU has the muscle to integrate and cooperate with other partners, which is something that shouldn't be underestimated, as this builds resilience via redundancy. Edit: Interesting how this is the second time [0] in the past few weeks where an HN comment I wrote that was optimistic about the EU's capacity was downvoted. There's a reason the PRC is still conducting industrial espionage on EU institutions [1]. [0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46696996 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46696996 [1] - https://www.intelligenceonline.fr/asie-pacifique/2026/01/14/mise-en-examen-d-un-mathematicien-bordelais-pour-intelligence-avec-la-chine,110600268-art https://www.intelligenceonline.fr/asie-pacifique/2026/01/14/...

Fnoord 9mo ago
> Interesting how this is the second time [0] in the past few weeks where an HN comment I wrote that was optimistic about the EU's capacity was downvoted. Nothing new there, but I wouldn't assume Chinese bot army being behind it. The Russians, American MAGA, European alt-right each have an interest in such suppression (and RU and USA also conduct industrial espionage on EU). You may assume each of these parties is present in a thread about European sovereignty, but either way the mods discourage any discussion about moderation. You're best off emailing one of them.
- alephnerd 9mo ago
  Absolutely, but negating and distracting from the fact that EU governments have been publicly calling out Chinese disinfo ops [0][1] over the past 2-3 years to a degree not seen since Russia began hybrid warfare against the EU in the 2010s is unneccesary. [0] - https://www.defense.gouv.fr/desinformation/nos-analyses-froid/decryptage-desinformation-au-service-competition-industrielle https://www.defense.gouv.fr/desinformation/nos-analyses-froi... [1] - https://www.universiteitleiden.nl/nieuws/2024/10/nederlandse-media-onvoldoende-voorbereid-op-psychologische-intimidatie-china https://www.universiteitleiden.nl/nieuws/2024/10/nederlandse...
sajithdilshan 9mo ago
But then again it won't be sovereign. EU has been doing the same with US companies and now they are switching US for a different country/countries
- alephnerd 9mo ago
  Sovereignty doesn't mean autarky - it means having the capacity to maintain operations and pivot should a black swan event arise. The EU is a transnational bloc that has had experience helping it's member states find niches of competitive advantage and take full advantage of that. Germany doesn't need to fully replicate Denmark's biopharma pipeline nor does Denmark have the need to fully replicate Germany's nuclear submarine IP because both can and have continued to coexist with each other and build resilience through additonal partnerships which prevent one from dominating the other. This is the modus operandi of EU soverignity - integrate players into following a set of collective norms and aligning each other's incentives with the larger collective. This is why EU's grand strategy incorporates the industrial base of other regional powers like Japan, SK, India, Vietnam, Canada, Australia, UAE, Israel, etc because it increasingly aligns all these regional powers against domination from either the US or China.
baklavaEmperor 9mo ago
If trust is the constraint, Israel’s track record makes it an odd choice for EU sovereign systems.
- alephnerd 9mo ago
  France and Israel have been collaborating on defense technology for decades - it was France that helped Israel become a nuclear power [0]. There are similar collaborations with Czechia [1], Estonia [2], Lithuania [3], Romania [4] and Germany [5]. Additionally, Israel has a defense pact with Greece and Cyprus to protect them against Turkish aggression [6], which is more than what other EU states are providing to Greece and Cyprus. This is why Israel is a critical part of the EU's multilateral defense fabric - Eastern Mediterranean and CEE EU member states are already close partners with Israel. [0] - https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000271219.pdf https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000271219.pdf [1] - https://www.czdefence.cz/clanek/cesko-izraelska-spoluprace-v-oblasti-obrany-nabyva-na-dulezitosti https://www.czdefence.cz/clanek/cesko-izraelska-spoluprace-v... [2] - https://vm.ee/sites/default/files/documents/2025-09/Israel%20DefenceTech%20Report.pdf https://vm.ee/sites/default/files/documents/2025-09/Israel%2... [3] - https://www.gov.cy/proedros-proedria/koini-diakiryxi-tis-10i-trimerous-synodou-metaxy-tis-kypriakis-dimokratias-tis-ellinikis-dimokratias-kai-tou-kratous-tou-israil/ https://www.gov.cy/proedros-proedria/koini-diakiryxi-tis-10i... [4] - https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/romania-buy-israeli-anti-aircraft-systems-23-bln-2025-07-21/ https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/romania-b... [5] - https://www.iai.co.il/israel-aerospace-industries-announces-31-billion-usd-contract-expansion-arrow-3-missile-defense https://www.iai.co.il/israel-aerospace-industries-announces-... [6] - https://www.gov.cy/proedros-proedria/koini-diakiryxi-tis-10i-trimerous-synodou-metaxy-tis-kypriakis-dimokratias-tis-ellinikis-dimokratias-kai-tou-kratous-tou-israil/ https://www.gov.cy/proedros-proedria/koini-diakiryxi-tis-10i...
  - lava_pidgeon 9mo ago
    I like your post as it offers me new insights. 1.) not all cee countries are pro-israel. Especially Poland as the biggest country there is rather anti - Israel. 2.) Most European countries and almost eu countries are part of NATO. Thus Greece is protected by Article 5. In addition there is Article 42 from the EU. In a.potential Cyprus - Greece - Turkey Eu has more to offer than Israel military wise.

notahacker 9mo ago

Most of the "digital sovereignty" stuff is spending money on companies that intend to sell services at a profit and pay taxes on it. So they absolutely can afford to do it (and governments have more routes to getting money back than just exits) provided you back the right companies. That's probably more easily achieved in digital sovereignty than space launch though.

sajithdilshan 9mo ago
You mean government subsidizing the companies and taxing them in return? How is that a viable model? Also subsidizing means tax payers put on the burden and there is no guarantee that the companies subsidized by the governments would turn a profit or just burn through the subsidies and go bankrupt.
- notahacker 9mo ago
  > You mean government subsidizing the companies and taxing them in return?How is that a viable model? You're asking how it can be viable to give money to unprofitable companies in the hope that some of them will repay it by becoming very profitable in future on a website run by YC? Really?
  - sajithdilshan 9mo ago
    Exactly the point. YC is playing lotto with private venture. The governments cannot play lotto with the tax payers money.
    - wongarsu 9mo ago
      Of course they can. Not investing in your own economy and infrastructure just because outcomes aren't guaranteed would be the insane policy
      - sajithdilshan 9mo ago
        Investing in infrastructure and economy and playing lotto with tax payers money in random companies is two different things. By your definition the government could just put all tax money into stock market and hope for the best.

philipwhiuk 9mo ago

> With an aging population and the need to maintain welfare states, governments will have to allocate more and more of future budgets to expanding and sustaining welfare programs (statutory health insurance, pensions, unemployment benefits, etc.). That ultimately means higher taxes, a larger government workforce, and a shrinking private sector. All of this is also true in the US.

alephnerd 9mo ago
And China excluding the welfare part - China has an extremely weak welfare system for a state at it's economic level and the Xi admin remains deeply opposed to what it derogatorily terms as "Welfarism" [0]. [0] - http://theory.people.com.cn/n1/2021/1116/c40531-32283350.html http://theory.people.com.cn/n1/2021/1116/c40531-32283350.htm...
nradov 9mo ago
That's true of all developed countries to a degree, but the USA still has a significantly better demographic profile than the EU.
- overfeed 9mo ago
  Mostly due to immigration into the US, and I wouldn't hang my coat on this staying the same.
sajithdilshan 9mo ago
Not really, US population would continue to grow, while EU declines[1] [1] https://ourworldindata.org/data-insights/india-china-europe-and-the-united-states-are-on-very-different-population-paths https://ourworldindata.org/data-insights/india-china-europe-...

jcfrei 9mo ago

Not sure why you are getting downvoted - I'm wondering the same thing. Catching up is inherently more expensive than just maintaining a lead. And on top of that the EU pensioners will oppose any reallocation of resources outside of their retirement / pension schemes. The EU does have more fiscal headroom than the US, ie. lower debt per GDP and lower debt per capita - so through borrowing they could mobilize some more funds. But that's about it and I'm doubtful that's going to be enough.

sajithdilshan 9mo ago
I guess a lot of Europeans don't want to see the real logical questioning and downvoting out of pure frustration. Also EU doesn't have fiscal freedom. Germany is the only country barely keeping it together and without any hard reform France is a ticking time bomb when it come to its debt-to-GDP.
- nona 9mo ago
  France debt-to-GDP: 115-117% US debt-to-GDP: 124%
  - sajithdilshan 9mo ago
    US has a huge advantage compared to France. US has the control of its currency and can devalue it. France cannot do it since Euro is not controlled by France.

numpad0 9mo ago

"Arianespace is pathetically behind the times as launch services provider and no one is even cost competitive with SpaceX" types of offhand Internet comments are just literal propaganda with zero substance. [WARN] messages on Linux Kernel consoles bear more importance than those.

pjc50 9mo ago

"EU welfare state" is a meme that doesn't survive looking closely at the actual figures. Especially if you compare things like state pensions properly; the US moves these into a different column labelled "social security", but that doesn't mean they're not part of the state! Note that the alternative is sending money overseas to rent US infrastructure. It may make a lot of sense to deploy spending locally where it stays in the economy rather than overseas, a standard "import substitution" play.

amarcheschi 9mo ago
Plus, us already spends much more on healthcare per capita than other countries https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#GDP%20per%20capita%20and%20health%20consumption%20spending%20per%20capita,%20U.S.%20dollars,%202023%20(current%20prices%20and%20PPP%20adjusted)%C2%A0 https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-...
- overfeed 9mo ago
  > Plus, [USA] already spends much more... but the US is somehow simultaneously less of a welfare/nanny state. I suppose that is a tell: it's not about the actual monetary amounts, but about the national priorities posture and political alignment.
- realusername 9mo ago
  And that's only going to increase as the boomer generation is going to need more and more healthcare.
celeritascelery 9mo ago
While the EU welfare is not that much larger than the US (maybe 5% more of GDP), the US also has much more money, a larger portion of the population working, and higher population growth. They also have the technical and business knowledge in tech that the EU lacks (e.g. silicon, rocketry, hyperscalers, etc).
- 9mo ago

seydor 9mo ago

china has been an invaluable partner. Green energy supplies a large part of energy consumed in europe now, and car electrification has become popular thanks to cheap chinese EVs. I will not be surprised to see chinese drones or weapons too

pjc50 9mo ago
Chinese drones yes, there's no equivalent of the US DJI ban as far as I'm aware. China have been supplying both sides in the Ukraine war. Chinese weapons .. no. Plenty of traditional EU arms companies to do that, and this is one area where I'm OK with the traditional EU protectionism. A more interesting question is the two big countries which are part of NATO, on the European continent, but NOT part of the EU: UK and Turkey.
alephnerd 9mo ago
> china has been an invaluable partner The PRC has stated it will continue to back Russia against Ukraine [0] which is a red line for the EU. Additionally, the PRC has been running disinfo ops against EU member states tech exports [1] while still attempting industrial espionage on European institutions [2]. China will not become a trusted partner of the EU as long as: 1. It continues to conduct industrial espionage against EU institutions 2. Attempts to undermine EU industrial and dual use exports 3. It continues to support Russia diplomatically and materially at the expense of Ukraine 4. It attempts to undermine the EU as an institution [3][4][5][6] 5. It continues to threaten EU nationals through physical [7] and legal [8] intimidation. It's the same reason trust has reduced in the US as well. --- [0] - https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3316875/china-tells-eu-it-cannot-afford-russian-loss-ukraine-war-sources-say https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3316875/ch... [1] - https://www.defense.gouv.fr/desinformation/nos-analyses-froid/decryptage-desinformation-au-service-competition-industrielle https://www.defense.gouv.fr/desinformation/nos-analyses-froi... [2] - https://www.intelligenceonline.fr/asie-pacifique/2026/01/14/mise-en-examen-d-un-mathematicien-bordelais-pour-intelligence-avec-la-chine,110600268-art https://www.intelligenceonline.fr/asie-pacifique/2026/01/14/... [3] - https://fddi.fudan.edu.cn/_t2515/57/f8/c21257a743416/page.htm https://fddi.fudan.edu.cn/_t2515/57/f8/c21257a743416/page.ht... [4] - https://www.ft.com/content/1ed0b791-a447-48f4-9c38-abbf5f2837a6 https://www.ft.com/content/1ed0b791-a447-48f4-9c38-abbf5f283... [5] - https://www.ft.com/content/81700fc4-8f23-4bec-87e9-59a83f215431 https://www.ft.com/content/81700fc4-8f23-4bec-87e9-59a83f215... [6] - https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/ex-mitarbeiter-krah-spionage-urteil-100.html https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/ex-mitarbeiter... [7] - https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2024/07/02/deux-espions-chinois-pries-de-quitter-la-france-apres-la-tentative-de-rapatriement-force-d-un-ressortissant_6246161_3224.html https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2024/07/02/deux-espio... [8] - https://www.intelligenceonline.fr/asie-pacifique/2025/12/23/intimidations-chinoises-en-europe--pekin-opte-pour-l-arme-juridique,110582903-art https://www.intelligenceonline.fr/asie-pacifique/2025/12/23/...