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I still don’t understand the Xcode rant. Using Swift can be done in any LSP-compatible text editor (VSCode, which even has a first-party extension for Swift, bu

by frizlab 8mo ago

I still don’t understand the Xcode rant. Using Swift can be done in any LSP-compatible text editor (VSCode, which even has a first-party extension for Swift, but also zed, Sublime Text, etc.) Unless you’re doing Apple-specific development, you don’t need Xcode.

teaearlgraycold 8mo ago
What company is using Swift outside of Apple-specific development?
- odo1242 8mo ago
  Doesn’t affect the validity of your comment whatsoever, but there was the attempt by the Browser Company to implement Arc on Windows in SwiftUI lol
- frizlab 8mo ago
  Not a lot, but has absolutely no relation whatsoever to my comment.
- alwillis 8mo ago
  Arc, TBCNY's browser for macOS and Windows uses Swift [1] [2]. Their newer Dia browser which is meant to be cross-platform also uses Swift. [1]: https://speakinginswift.substack.com/p/swift-tooling-windows-edition https://speakinginswift.substack.com/p/swift-tooling-windows... [2]: "How we're building the Arc Browser Windows app with Swift" -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa_fNuaSE_I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa_fNuaSE_I
- Imustaskforhelp 8mo ago
  > What company is using Swift outside of Apple-specific development? Skip allows to "Build truly native iPhone and Android apps with Skip" so technically skip runs swift on android which is outside of Apple-specific development. They also recently got open source from their closed source model prior from what I can tell https://skip.dev/ https://skip.dev/
wolvoleo 8mo ago
Why would you bother using Swift if you're not targeting Apple? I can imagine wanting to use it for something cross-platform that is primarily an ios/macos thing. But if you don't want to include those I wouldn't pick a language that's under control of a company I don't use. It's a bit like using c# or powershell on Linux. Yes it can be done and it's helpful for cross platform with windows but I wouldn't consider it a first class citizen.
- behnamoh 8mo ago
  > I wouldn't pick a language that's under control of a company Hmm... TypeScript: Microsoft Rust: Mozilla Go: Google Java: Oracle By your logic we should be programming in Common Lisp. ========== Edit: - Rust: Mozilla + Rust: Rust Foundation
  - scns 8mo ago
    > Rust: Mozilla Nope. Not anymore, several years maybe?
  - WD-42 8mo ago
    You forgot the most popular language in the world right now: Python: The Python Software Foundation Turns out two of the best languages don't need corporate overlords to steer their development.
    - geysersam 8mo ago
      Not to mention C, C++, JS, PHP, bash. Hell there are so many great languages not controlled by big companies.
    - tayo42 8mo ago
      Could that happen today though? I think python started in a very different world then today. Alot of its current popularity is becasue big companies developed the libraries that make up the foundation of Ai with it.
  - shawn_w 8mo ago
truncate 8mo ago
LSP support isn't great. It keeps improving however. Used to get quite a few crashes. And I think background indexing still doesn't work.
hn-acct 8mo ago
Agreed. People use any thread mentioning swift to dunk on Apple for X number of reasons with vague details and regurgitated dogma. I get Xcode has quirks I use it everyday believe me I know but it's not that bad that it's unusable.
- belmont_sup 8mo ago
  I recently really wanted to use Swift server side because of all the updates to Vapor. Ran vapor new. Tried to build the project. Laptop spun for minutes and got really hot. Then I gave up and just went back to the usual.
- 12_throw_away 8mo ago
  > but it's not that bad that it's unusable Yeah, so I tried XCode with a couple of years ago. Within 2 hours of working on my very first project, it somehow corrupted either my project's metadata and/or its own internal preferences so badly that it would no longer launch - it would just crash to Desktop instantly. Literally the most unusable application I've used in recent memory!
  - realusername 8mo ago
    And the app upload is so broken, Apple released a third party tool to bypass their own IDE...
- user34283 8mo ago
  I only use Xcode rarely, and I'm unfamiliar with its quirks. That is precisely what makes it such a bad experience compared to my work in JetBrains IDEs or vscode. Together with an unfamiliar platform I also have to fight that weird IDE.
- lelanthran 8mo ago
  > I get Xcode has quirks I use it everyday believe me I know but it's not that bad that it's unusable. It's not unusable, but it's not that great either. When I have a project that requires Xcode I certainly don't look forward to it the way I do such as wehn I have a project that doesn't need any specific IDE. As a sidenote; I recently (1 year ago, maybe?) did a C project in Eclipse, and was blown away but just how snappy, quick and, utlimately, enjoyable it was compared to VS Code.

by frizlab 8mo ago

teaearlgraycold 8mo ago

What company is using Swift outside of Apple-specific development?

odo1242 8mo ago
Doesn’t affect the validity of your comment whatsoever, but there was the attempt by the Browser Company to implement Arc on Windows in SwiftUI lol
frizlab 8mo ago
Not a lot, but has absolutely no relation whatsoever to my comment.
alwillis 8mo ago
Arc, TBCNY's browser for macOS and Windows uses Swift [1] [2]. Their newer Dia browser which is meant to be cross-platform also uses Swift. [1]: https://speakinginswift.substack.com/p/swift-tooling-windows-edition https://speakinginswift.substack.com/p/swift-tooling-windows... [2]: "How we're building the Arc Browser Windows app with Swift" -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa_fNuaSE_I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa_fNuaSE_I
Imustaskforhelp 8mo ago
> What company is using Swift outside of Apple-specific development? Skip allows to "Build truly native iPhone and Android apps with Skip" so technically skip runs swift on android which is outside of Apple-specific development. They also recently got open source from their closed source model prior from what I can tell https://skip.dev/ https://skip.dev/

wolvoleo 8mo ago

Why would you bother using Swift if you're not targeting Apple? I can imagine wanting to use it for something cross-platform that is primarily an ios/macos thing. But if you don't want to include those I wouldn't pick a language that's under control of a company I don't use. It's a bit like using c# or powershell on Linux. Yes it can be done and it's helpful for cross platform with windows but I wouldn't consider it a first class citizen.

behnamoh 8mo ago
> I wouldn't pick a language that's under control of a company Hmm... TypeScript: Microsoft Rust: Mozilla Go: Google Java: Oracle By your logic we should be programming in Common Lisp. ========== Edit: - Rust: Mozilla + Rust: Rust Foundation
- scns 8mo ago
  > Rust: Mozilla Nope. Not anymore, several years maybe?
- WD-42 8mo ago
  You forgot the most popular language in the world right now: Python: The Python Software Foundation Turns out two of the best languages don't need corporate overlords to steer their development.
  - geysersam 8mo ago
    Not to mention C, C++, JS, PHP, bash. Hell there are so many great languages not controlled by big companies.
  - tayo42 8mo ago
    Could that happen today though? I think python started in a very different world then today. Alot of its current popularity is becasue big companies developed the libraries that make up the foundation of Ai with it.
- shawn_w 8mo ago

truncate 8mo ago

LSP support isn't great. It keeps improving however. Used to get quite a few crashes. And I think background indexing still doesn't work.

hn-acct 8mo ago

Agreed. People use any thread mentioning swift to dunk on Apple for X number of reasons with vague details and regurgitated dogma. I get Xcode has quirks I use it everyday believe me I know but it's not that bad that it's unusable.

belmont_sup 8mo ago
I recently really wanted to use Swift server side because of all the updates to Vapor. Ran vapor new. Tried to build the project. Laptop spun for minutes and got really hot. Then I gave up and just went back to the usual.
12_throw_away 8mo ago
> but it's not that bad that it's unusable Yeah, so I tried XCode with a couple of years ago. Within 2 hours of working on my very first project, it somehow corrupted either my project's metadata and/or its own internal preferences so badly that it would no longer launch - it would just crash to Desktop instantly. Literally the most unusable application I've used in recent memory!
- realusername 8mo ago
  And the app upload is so broken, Apple released a third party tool to bypass their own IDE...
user34283 8mo ago
I only use Xcode rarely, and I'm unfamiliar with its quirks. That is precisely what makes it such a bad experience compared to my work in JetBrains IDEs or vscode. Together with an unfamiliar platform I also have to fight that weird IDE.
lelanthran 8mo ago
> I get Xcode has quirks I use it everyday believe me I know but it's not that bad that it's unusable. It's not unusable, but it's not that great either. When I have a project that requires Xcode I certainly don't look forward to it the way I do such as wehn I have a project that doesn't need any specific IDE. As a sidenote; I recently (1 year ago, maybe?) did a C project in Eclipse, and was blown away but just how snappy, quick and, utlimately, enjoyable it was compared to VS Code.