6 ms·

Windows 8: Microsoft will declare victory, but will anyone believe it?

20 points by SlipperySlope 14y ago

neovive 14y ago
I think Windows 8 is a long-term proposition for Microsoft. I doubt they are expecting any remarkable change in the short term; there just won't be enough compelling Win8/touch-enabled devices out there to make a difference. They need to grow market share over time. They are practically giving away the upgrade to consumer users which a big change from the past. This is similar to the early XBOX strategy, which took quite a while to come to fruition, but the XBOX division is now doing very well in terms of market/mind share. Microsoft clearly wants to enterprise market and that takes time.
- squidsoup 14y ago
  > Microsoft clearly wants to enterprise market and that takes time. It's a pity that Canonical haven't seized on this and made their focus Ubuntu in the enterprise. I think it's pretty clear that Ubuntu as a consumer OS is a dead duck, but it does have a place as a viable alternative to Windows in the business environment. Sadly, this doesn't seem to be their primary focus and continue to put resources into 'touch' computing, Unity and mobile devices where they're never going to effectively compete with Apple, Google and Microsoft.
SlipperySlope 14y ago
Essentially ... "There’s much to be excited about. Yet, not many in the channel are excited. In fact, the Microsoft ecosystem – component makers, PC manufacturers, distributors and resellers – is bracing for a lull rather than a surge in Windows-related sales."
- ewest 14y ago
  On the same note, with today's economy it's likely the majority won't bother upgrading since their Windows installs work, so why upgrade now?
  - DGCA 14y ago
    That may be true but, as far as I remember, it's the most sensibly priced version of Windows yet. Only $40 to upgrade.
SoftwareMaven 14y ago
It almost feels like MS is setting itself up to be able to throw their whole OEM ecosystem out the door. MS is seeing their market shrink, so they may decide to stop sharing it with other people like they have in the past. They are starting by getting their toes in the water with Surface, Azure and direct-licensed upgrades to Windows. If so, that would be the boldest thing I've seen from Balmer (which is why I'm very hesitant to actually believe it).
- marshray 14y ago
  Out of curiosity, how do you see Azure fitting in to this plan?
  - r00fus 14y ago
    Easy - it's the fabric on which the iCloud-like services from Microsoft will be delivered. Didn't Apple rely on Azure (in addition to other cloud providers) for iCloud? Or am I completely off the mark there?
    - marshray 14y ago
      I'm wondering why the traditional OEMs would feel betrayed by new cloud services. I guess it fits the general "post-PC" theme.
walru 14y ago
I went to go use a Windows 8 PC at Best Buy the other day and was shocked. In screenshots everything looks clean, crisp, and modern - then comes the task of using it. I don't understand who at MSFT thought it was necessary to preface every action by a splash screen and inordinately long loading times. Also, am I missing something? Does everything you do have to be full screen? Is having multiple windows open and multi-tasking a thing of the past? I know I'm coming from a place of ignorance - having only used it for about five minutes. I'm sure I don't quite understand how to use the OS yet. However, I design software for a living. If I'm not able to immediately figure out how to use everything and why this is a better approach than what they've done before, or what their competitors are doing, then how is the mass populace? I hate to come on here to be so negative, but the usability of Windows 8 is simply abysmal.
- sp332 14y ago
  They learned with Windows Phone 7 apps, that smooth (long) animations and colorful splash screens can make under-powered hardware seem a lot more responsive. Instead of doing nothing for a few seconds and then popping up your app, it immediately plays an animation, shows a splash screen, then shows your app. It's better than nothing but it would be nice if they just threw better hardware at the problem.
  - untog 14y ago
    To be fair, you could say the same about iOS.
- freehunter 14y ago
  >Does everything you do have to be full screen? No. You can have two apps open side by side. >Is having multiple windows open and multi-tasking a thing of the past? According to the tablet market leaders (Apple and Google), yes. BTW the desktop still supports this for power users. Other comments have pointed out that non-power users likely won't care about this issue. >I know I'm coming from a place of ignorance... I'm sure I don't quite understand how to use the OS... I design software for a living. And herein lies the bigger issue. You're used to the old way. You're comfortable with the old way. You like the old way. So do I. That's not a bad thing, and Microsoft left in the desktop for people like you and me (and most others on this forum). Nothing has changed there. I run Windows 8 on my laptop and spend 99% of my time on the desktop like it's Windows 7 with some nice new features added on (and a better security model). However, a great number of computer users seem to prefer the simplistic style of iOS or Android. It lets them focus on one task using a very simple menu to get from one app to another. They don't need multiple windows overlapping each other, and they don't need tiling window managers. They don't want multiple open windows distracting them. This is why the iPad was made, this is why Android tablets are made, and this is why Windows 8 and Windows RT were made. For us, we'll complain about the limitations of the Metro UI then switch to the desktop and forget about it. For them, they'll stick to the RT components, possibly momentarily confused by the drastic change from Windows 7 to Windows 8, then settle in and forget they're using a PC. That's probably a good thing. The last thing these users need is their personal IT guy going on and on about how Windows 8 is awful and the RT components are awful and it shouldn't be used. How long have we all spent trying to teach our parents/grandparents how to get around in Outlook and Firefox, writing down a list of steps they'll need to take to get to their email, or how to bring up the new picture of their grandkids? I actually bought my grandma an iPad so I wouldn't need to do remote support over the phone anymore. 5 minutes of instruction and she was ready to go. I think RT will be a good thing for your average user. I think it will be a mild grumbling point for power users, deserving no where near the current amount of vitriol spewed on the Internet. Think of the RT stuff as an iPad built into (and complimenting rather than replacing) your desktop. You don't have to use it.
larrik 14y ago
Well, when both Vista and 7 came out, Microsoft would tout the great adoption rates they were seeing with their sales numbers. They would conveniently leave out that purchasing a PC with XP on it at that point involved buying Vista/7, and then "downgrading" it, which went on the books as a Vista/7 sale, but went to the customer as an XP sale (ish). So yeah, when Microsoft declares victory, I NEVER believe it.
gamble 14y ago
The problem with Windows 8 is that Microsoft built a touch-oriented operating system, but none of the OEMs are shipping machines that are notably more touch-oriented than their Windows 7 lineup. And the Metro aspects of Win8 offer no benefits to a mouse user, while being significantly less discoverable without touch. You just have to watch a few "first time using Windows 8" videos on Youtube to see how unintuitive it is with a mouse.
- meaty 14y ago
  It's actually ok with a mouse - it just takes a bit of getting used to. To be honest, I use it entirely with the keyboard now (Metro included). I've forced myself to use Caret browsing in IE and the reuslt is that I've actually turned the touchpad off on my ThinkPad. This is not because I don't like the mouse interaction, but because I like the keyboard interaction. I agree however that this is primarily touch oriented, which is why they're pushing surface. I'm grabbing a surface pro when it comes out. I've tried it on a Sony AIO desktop PC with touch support and it was pretty good on that. Unfortunately it's the kids' PC so I don't get to meddle with it much.

20 points by SlipperySlope 14y ago

I think Windows 8 is a long-term proposition for Microsoft. I doubt they are expecting any remarkable change in the short term; there just won't be enough compelling Win8/touch-enabled devices out there to make a difference. They need to grow market share over time. They are practically giving away the upgrade to consumer users which a big change from the past. This is similar to the early XBOX strategy, which took quite a while to come to fruition, but the XBOX division is now doing very well in terms of market/mind share. Microsoft clearly wants to enterprise market and that takes time.

squidsoup 14y ago
> Microsoft clearly wants to enterprise market and that takes time. It's a pity that Canonical haven't seized on this and made their focus Ubuntu in the enterprise. I think it's pretty clear that Ubuntu as a consumer OS is a dead duck, but it does have a place as a viable alternative to Windows in the business environment. Sadly, this doesn't seem to be their primary focus and continue to put resources into 'touch' computing, Unity and mobile devices where they're never going to effectively compete with Apple, Google and Microsoft.

SlipperySlope 14y ago

Essentially ... "There’s much to be excited about. Yet, not many in the channel are excited. In fact, the Microsoft ecosystem – component makers, PC manufacturers, distributors and resellers – is bracing for a lull rather than a surge in Windows-related sales."

ewest 14y ago
On the same note, with today's economy it's likely the majority won't bother upgrading since their Windows installs work, so why upgrade now?
- DGCA 14y ago
  That may be true but, as far as I remember, it's the most sensibly priced version of Windows yet. Only $40 to upgrade.

SoftwareMaven 14y ago

It almost feels like MS is setting itself up to be able to throw their whole OEM ecosystem out the door. MS is seeing their market shrink, so they may decide to stop sharing it with other people like they have in the past. They are starting by getting their toes in the water with Surface, Azure and direct-licensed upgrades to Windows. If so, that would be the boldest thing I've seen from Balmer (which is why I'm very hesitant to actually believe it).

marshray 14y ago
Out of curiosity, how do you see Azure fitting in to this plan?
- r00fus 14y ago
  Easy - it's the fabric on which the iCloud-like services from Microsoft will be delivered. Didn't Apple rely on Azure (in addition to other cloud providers) for iCloud? Or am I completely off the mark there?
  - marshray 14y ago
    I'm wondering why the traditional OEMs would feel betrayed by new cloud services. I guess it fits the general "post-PC" theme.

walru 14y ago

I went to go use a Windows 8 PC at Best Buy the other day and was shocked. In screenshots everything looks clean, crisp, and modern - then comes the task of using it. I don't understand who at MSFT thought it was necessary to preface every action by a splash screen and inordinately long loading times. Also, am I missing something? Does everything you do have to be full screen? Is having multiple windows open and multi-tasking a thing of the past? I know I'm coming from a place of ignorance - having only used it for about five minutes. I'm sure I don't quite understand how to use the OS yet. However, I design software for a living. If I'm not able to immediately figure out how to use everything and why this is a better approach than what they've done before, or what their competitors are doing, then how is the mass populace? I hate to come on here to be so negative, but the usability of Windows 8 is simply abysmal.

sp332 14y ago
They learned with Windows Phone 7 apps, that smooth (long) animations and colorful splash screens can make under-powered hardware seem a lot more responsive. Instead of doing nothing for a few seconds and then popping up your app, it immediately plays an animation, shows a splash screen, then shows your app. It's better than nothing but it would be nice if they just threw better hardware at the problem.
- untog 14y ago
  To be fair, you could say the same about iOS.
freehunter 14y ago
>Does everything you do have to be full screen? No. You can have two apps open side by side. >Is having multiple windows open and multi-tasking a thing of the past? According to the tablet market leaders (Apple and Google), yes. BTW the desktop still supports this for power users. Other comments have pointed out that non-power users likely won't care about this issue. >I know I'm coming from a place of ignorance... I'm sure I don't quite understand how to use the OS... I design software for a living. And herein lies the bigger issue. You're used to the old way. You're comfortable with the old way. You like the old way. So do I. That's not a bad thing, and Microsoft left in the desktop for people like you and me (and most others on this forum). Nothing has changed there. I run Windows 8 on my laptop and spend 99% of my time on the desktop like it's Windows 7 with some nice new features added on (and a better security model). However, a great number of computer users seem to prefer the simplistic style of iOS or Android. It lets them focus on one task using a very simple menu to get from one app to another. They don't need multiple windows overlapping each other, and they don't need tiling window managers. They don't want multiple open windows distracting them. This is why the iPad was made, this is why Android tablets are made, and this is why Windows 8 and Windows RT were made. For us, we'll complain about the limitations of the Metro UI then switch to the desktop and forget about it. For them, they'll stick to the RT components, possibly momentarily confused by the drastic change from Windows 7 to Windows 8, then settle in and forget they're using a PC. That's probably a good thing. The last thing these users need is their personal IT guy going on and on about how Windows 8 is awful and the RT components are awful and it shouldn't be used. How long have we all spent trying to teach our parents/grandparents how to get around in Outlook and Firefox, writing down a list of steps they'll need to take to get to their email, or how to bring up the new picture of their grandkids? I actually bought my grandma an iPad so I wouldn't need to do remote support over the phone anymore. 5 minutes of instruction and she was ready to go. I think RT will be a good thing for your average user. I think it will be a mild grumbling point for power users, deserving no where near the current amount of vitriol spewed on the Internet. Think of the RT stuff as an iPad built into (and complimenting rather than replacing) your desktop. You don't have to use it.

larrik 14y ago

Well, when both Vista and 7 came out, Microsoft would tout the great adoption rates they were seeing with their sales numbers. They would conveniently leave out that purchasing a PC with XP on it at that point involved buying Vista/7, and then "downgrading" it, which went on the books as a Vista/7 sale, but went to the customer as an XP sale (ish). So yeah, when Microsoft declares victory, I NEVER believe it.

gamble 14y ago

The problem with Windows 8 is that Microsoft built a touch-oriented operating system, but none of the OEMs are shipping machines that are notably more touch-oriented than their Windows 7 lineup. And the Metro aspects of Win8 offer no benefits to a mouse user, while being significantly less discoverable without touch. You just have to watch a few "first time using Windows 8" videos on Youtube to see how unintuitive it is with a mouse.

meaty 14y ago
It's actually ok with a mouse - it just takes a bit of getting used to. To be honest, I use it entirely with the keyboard now (Metro included). I've forced myself to use Caret browsing in IE and the reuslt is that I've actually turned the touchpad off on my ThinkPad. This is not because I don't like the mouse interaction, but because I like the keyboard interaction. I agree however that this is primarily touch oriented, which is why they're pushing surface. I'm grabbing a surface pro when it comes out. I've tried it on a Sony AIO desktop PC with touch support and it was pretty good on that. Unfortunately it's the kids' PC so I don't get to meddle with it much.