4 ms·

This is the "dump" part of pump and dump. TikTok influencers have been pushing the gold & silver rally for weeks now, and it was inevitable that people at the t

by paxys 9mo ago

This is the "dump" part of pump and dump. TikTok influencers have been pushing the gold & silver rally for weeks now, and it was inevitable that people at the top would eventually cash out.

onlyrealcuzzo 9mo ago
Most of the influencers aren't even in on the investment, they just get paid to pump, and a lot of them don't even get paid, they just do it for the eye balls. People want to get rich quick. There's going to be a never ending list of people that will tell them how - just so they can get useless karma points on Social Media, even if they don't make any money, and just convince you to lose your money.
- NedF 9mo ago
  [dead]
- klatchex_too 9mo ago
  > People want to get rich quick What about Amish people? Or Buddhists?
- KellyCriterion 9mo ago
  > a never ending list of people that will tell them how you mean like these trading Bros parachuting onto a yacht and placing a trade and telling me that I could do this too with the correct mindset from their exclusive Telegram group? :-D
constantcrying 9mo ago
[flagged]
- fn-mote 9mo ago
  Unnecessarily toxic. How about you give your interpretation instead of making us infer it.
  - losvedir 9mo ago
    They're saying that the volume of the silver market is such that "tiktok influencers" and their followers (i.e. "retail" traders, not institutional investors or mega corporations hedging their supply chain) are insignificant in affecting the price. This is not a situation like bankrupt Gamestop. I'm seeing the 30% price drop, e.g., here: https://www.cmegroup.com/markets/metals/precious/silver.volume.html https://www.cmegroup.com/markets/metals/precious/silver.volu..., which shows a volume of 300k contracts, where each contract is 5,000 ounces of silver, for a notional value of more than $100 BILLION dollars. Now, that much money didn't necessarily change hands but tiktokers and their followers are not going to realistically move the needle there still.
  - NedF 9mo ago
    [dead]
1970-01-01 9mo ago
Too early to tell. They're both up since 6 months ago. Could be another one of those flash crash events. Buckle up!
- IshKebab 9mo ago
  They're both up since like 8 days ago. This is one of those classic bullshit "dramatic change if you only look at today!!" stories.
  - AnimalMuppet 9mo ago
    True, but 30% is a pretty dramatic change for one day. If you look at the history of the silver price - go back as far as you like - you won't find many days when it moves 30% in either direction. Is it the beginning of a longer-term down? I have no idea.
    - losvedir 9mo ago
      It reminds me of my days looking at biotech stocks. You'd have a small company stake their whole financial future on the outcome of a clinical trial, to know whether their drug works or not. Leading up to the release of the results, the price would veer this way or that based on tidbits cleaned from doctors involved in the trials or whatever, but the stock would mostly be in a superposition of the two universes, one where it succeeds and one where it fails (or more mundanely: the probability weighted average of the price that the stock would be in each one). Then the results would come out and the universes would collapse to the "works" or "doesn't work" one and the stock would jump 30% or crater 50% or whatever. I haven't been following this gold and silver saga, but it feels like a similar situation where there were two possible Fed appointees who would have vastly different impacts on the price of the metals. Then the announcement comes and the price found the world where that was the nominee and not the other guy.
      - lazide 9mo ago
        Considering the array of behaviors exhibited by the president recently, it wouldn’t be entirely unlikely to nominate Alex Jones, eh?
resters 9mo ago
[flagged]
- 01100011 9mo ago
  Fed independence is damaged but it was never as independent as it should have been. No one since Volcker has been a real hawk. It hasn't led to hyperinflation, just a continual debasement that has served many purposes.
- rcv 9mo ago
  I have no idea about his credentials or suitability for the job, but Warsh is the son in law of Trump's buddy Ronald Lauder. I get the feeling he's not picking people he doesn't think he can control.
  - lostlogin 9mo ago
    > I get the feeling he's not picking people he doesn't think he can control. The irony in wanting to control people when you lack self control.
- AnthonyMouse 9mo ago
  "Fed independence" has always been kind of a ruse. The theory is Congress would want to print money so they can spend it, so you need someone whose job it is to not do that. But then Congress just borrows the money instead, which forces the Fed to respond to keep interest rates where they want them, with the result that they still end up de facto printing trillions of dollars at the behest of Congress. To some extent the "independence" is even worse, because the Fed has limited ways it can respond to what Congress does and "long-term cause individual debt to get completely out of hand" is one of their primary effects, which is pretty bad and plausibly worse than inflation having been slightly higher over the same period.
  - resters 9mo ago
    Good points -- what do you think would be effective ways to improve the institutions/incentives?
beloch 9mo ago
It's not just Tiktok, and not just the last few weeks. There have been pro-Gold ads in every form of media for the last couple of years, many focusing on uncertainty. The timing is pretty clear. The 2024 election was a time of great uncertainty, and Trump's first year in power delivered a reality worse than the fears. Trump is still throwing random tariff threats (and actual tariffs) around without rhyme or reason, but he's discovered that threatening to invade (allied) countries can stir things up even more effectively. Choosing a lackey to replace a competent federal reserve chair isn't going to help matters. We're just one quarter of the way through Trump's presidency (assuming he lives and doesn't seek another term), and it seems like the uncertainty is just going to get worse. However, that uncertainty is, by no means, certain. Domestic resistance and midterm elections could curb Trump's power. International resistance is starting to coalesce. e.g. The EU's threat to use their "trade bazooka" probably contributed to Trump's TACO on Greenland, as did the potential demise of NATO. Responses to Trump's international graspings will likely become more prompt and more muscular, reducing the instability Trump can cause. The system has been shocked, but now its adapting. Many nations are hedging against U.S. centred uncertainty by pivoting to China or other allies. Global markets will likely become more stable as nations learn how to work around Trump's chaos by working around the U.S.. Still, it's very possible that Trump will find new and "creative" ways to make everybody freak out again. Bottom line, the uncertainty that's been driving gold prices up since 2024 is going to let up at some point. But when? How overvalued will gold be when it does let up?
- BizarroLand 9mo ago
  Fortunately they would have to repeal the 22nd Amendment to allow that dingdong a third term No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this Article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.
jmyeet 9mo ago
[flagged]
- ProjectArcturis 9mo ago
  I was with you till the last paragraph. Banks having a huge short position is a false conspiracy theory.
  - Xx_crazy420_xX 9mo ago
    Can either one be proved?
    - ProjectArcturis 9mo ago
      You would think, if banks did have a huge short position, they would have announced large losses in Q4 after metals mooned. They did not.
- PlatoIsADisease 9mo ago
  I agree, Gold is a 35 trillion dollar market. There is no pump and dump. What happened to HN, people are totally fine with fanciful ideas suddenly. Normies found it?
JumpCrisscross 9mo ago
> TikTok influencers The dump is proximately caused by Trump picking a normal Fed chairman. Nobody on TikTok has anything to do with that, they're just pumping everything because seeling out is their day job.
PlatoIsADisease 9mo ago
On Gold? You know the market is 35 trillion dollars? Do you have any idea how much you'd need to pump?
- fuzzfactor 9mo ago
  A good portion of that has been hoarded since biblical times, and has not been in actual "circulation" ever.
  - defrost 9mo ago
    What percentage is "A good portion" ? Gold mining dates back to ancient civilisations. Our best estimates suggest that around 216,265 tonnes of gold have been mined throughout history. Interestingly, about two-thirds of this gold has been extracted since 1950. This massive increase in production has been due to advancements in mining technology and the discovery of new gold deposits. * https://www.gold.org/goldhub/data/how-much-gold https://www.gold.org/goldhub/data/how-much-gold 200 Years of Global Gold Production, by Country - https://elements.visualcapitalist.com/200-years-of-global-gold-production-by-country/ https://elements.visualcapitalist.com/200-years-of-global-go... Between 1500 and 1650, the Spanish imported 181 tons of gold and 16,000 tons of silver from the New World ... * https://www.quora.com/How-much-gold-did-the-Spaniards-take-from-South-America https://www.quora.com/How-much-gold-did-the-Spaniards-take-f... What's your estimate for the tonnage of gold "hoarded since biblical times" ?
    - fuzzfactor 9mo ago
      >What's your estimate Good question, I would say your guess is as good as mine, but looks like you have recent statistics ! Thanks for the information, it does look like realistic figures about as accurate as you can get. I just accept that as much as possible gold has always been hoarded much more strongly than silver amounts having the same values at the time. Enough to regard silver as a medium of exchange compared to gold as a store of value. Gold is so tightly hoarded that I expect that there is more than one accumulation established centuries ago, that originally consisted entirely of ancient gold which is comingled with material from the 20th century and maybe newer by now. It's also possible that before any human value was established for gold in prehistoric times, there might just have been untold megatons within reach as low-hanging fruit without need to do very much "mining" at all. Of course cave men had no formal education but they were sapiens just like us and had plenty of progressive generations over thousands of years to shrewdly recognize the advantage of not telling anybody about "untold" amounts of anything when it's regarded as valuable. At least some of them anyway :) And they sure had orders of magnitude more time to pursue economic interests and accumulate wealth before recorded history than there has been since then, no telling what they were keeping off the books when there weren't any books yet ! Edit: Not my downvote! Where did that come from? Corrective upvote now placed.
coffeebeqn 9mo ago
Gold has been going up for years now. I don’t know how much TikTok influencers influence the price. Seems to be mostly central banks and the falling apart of the international order that’s driving a neutral and unsanctionable tradeable asset up.
wakawaka28 9mo ago
It is very hard to pump the metals. The markets for them are just too big. You'd need whole countries buying to make a dent. Miners are another story. Those can be pumped and dumped like any other stock.

by paxys 9mo ago

This is the "dump" part of pump and dump. TikTok influencers have been pushing the gold & silver rally for weeks now, and it was inevitable that people at the top would eventually cash out.

onlyrealcuzzo 9mo ago

Most of the influencers aren't even in on the investment, they just get paid to pump, and a lot of them don't even get paid, they just do it for the eye balls. People want to get rich quick. There's going to be a never ending list of people that will tell them how - just so they can get useless karma points on Social Media, even if they don't make any money, and just convince you to lose your money.

NedF 9mo ago
[dead]
klatchex_too 9mo ago
> People want to get rich quick What about Amish people? Or Buddhists?
KellyCriterion 9mo ago
> a never ending list of people that will tell them how you mean like these trading Bros parachuting onto a yacht and placing a trade and telling me that I could do this too with the correct mindset from their exclusive Telegram group? :-D

constantcrying 9mo ago

[flagged]

fn-mote 9mo ago
Unnecessarily toxic. How about you give your interpretation instead of making us infer it.
- losvedir 9mo ago
  They're saying that the volume of the silver market is such that "tiktok influencers" and their followers (i.e. "retail" traders, not institutional investors or mega corporations hedging their supply chain) are insignificant in affecting the price. This is not a situation like bankrupt Gamestop. I'm seeing the 30% price drop, e.g., here: https://www.cmegroup.com/markets/metals/precious/silver.volume.html https://www.cmegroup.com/markets/metals/precious/silver.volu..., which shows a volume of 300k contracts, where each contract is 5,000 ounces of silver, for a notional value of more than $100 BILLION dollars. Now, that much money didn't necessarily change hands but tiktokers and their followers are not going to realistically move the needle there still.
- NedF 9mo ago
  [dead]

1970-01-01 9mo ago

Too early to tell. They're both up since 6 months ago. Could be another one of those flash crash events. Buckle up!

IshKebab 9mo ago
They're both up since like 8 days ago. This is one of those classic bullshit "dramatic change if you only look at today!!" stories.
- AnimalMuppet 9mo ago
  True, but 30% is a pretty dramatic change for one day. If you look at the history of the silver price - go back as far as you like - you won't find many days when it moves 30% in either direction. Is it the beginning of a longer-term down? I have no idea.
  - losvedir 9mo ago
    It reminds me of my days looking at biotech stocks. You'd have a small company stake their whole financial future on the outcome of a clinical trial, to know whether their drug works or not. Leading up to the release of the results, the price would veer this way or that based on tidbits cleaned from doctors involved in the trials or whatever, but the stock would mostly be in a superposition of the two universes, one where it succeeds and one where it fails (or more mundanely: the probability weighted average of the price that the stock would be in each one). Then the results would come out and the universes would collapse to the "works" or "doesn't work" one and the stock would jump 30% or crater 50% or whatever. I haven't been following this gold and silver saga, but it feels like a similar situation where there were two possible Fed appointees who would have vastly different impacts on the price of the metals. Then the announcement comes and the price found the world where that was the nominee and not the other guy.
    - lazide 9mo ago
      Considering the array of behaviors exhibited by the president recently, it wouldn’t be entirely unlikely to nominate Alex Jones, eh?

resters 9mo ago

[flagged]

01100011 9mo ago
Fed independence is damaged but it was never as independent as it should have been. No one since Volcker has been a real hawk. It hasn't led to hyperinflation, just a continual debasement that has served many purposes.
rcv 9mo ago
I have no idea about his credentials or suitability for the job, but Warsh is the son in law of Trump's buddy Ronald Lauder. I get the feeling he's not picking people he doesn't think he can control.
- lostlogin 9mo ago
  > I get the feeling he's not picking people he doesn't think he can control. The irony in wanting to control people when you lack self control.
AnthonyMouse 9mo ago
"Fed independence" has always been kind of a ruse. The theory is Congress would want to print money so they can spend it, so you need someone whose job it is to not do that. But then Congress just borrows the money instead, which forces the Fed to respond to keep interest rates where they want them, with the result that they still end up de facto printing trillions of dollars at the behest of Congress. To some extent the "independence" is even worse, because the Fed has limited ways it can respond to what Congress does and "long-term cause individual debt to get completely out of hand" is one of their primary effects, which is pretty bad and plausibly worse than inflation having been slightly higher over the same period.
- resters 9mo ago
  Good points -- what do you think would be effective ways to improve the institutions/incentives?

beloch 9mo ago

It's not just Tiktok, and not just the last few weeks. There have been pro-Gold ads in every form of media for the last couple of years, many focusing on uncertainty. The timing is pretty clear. The 2024 election was a time of great uncertainty, and Trump's first year in power delivered a reality worse than the fears. Trump is still throwing random tariff threats (and actual tariffs) around without rhyme or reason, but he's discovered that threatening to invade (allied) countries can stir things up even more effectively. Choosing a lackey to replace a competent federal reserve chair isn't going to help matters. We're just one quarter of the way through Trump's presidency (assuming he lives and doesn't seek another term), and it seems like the uncertainty is just going to get worse. However, that uncertainty is, by no means, certain. Domestic resistance and midterm elections could curb Trump's power. International resistance is starting to coalesce. e.g. The EU's threat to use their "trade bazooka" probably contributed to Trump's TACO on Greenland, as did the potential demise of NATO. Responses to Trump's international graspings will likely become more prompt and more muscular, reducing the instability Trump can cause. The system has been shocked, but now its adapting. Many nations are hedging against U.S. centred uncertainty by pivoting to China or other allies. Global markets will likely become more stable as nations learn how to work around Trump's chaos by working around the U.S.. Still, it's very possible that Trump will find new and "creative" ways to make everybody freak out again. Bottom line, the uncertainty that's been driving gold prices up since 2024 is going to let up at some point. But when? How overvalued will gold be when it does let up?

BizarroLand 9mo ago
Fortunately they would have to repeal the 22nd Amendment to allow that dingdong a third term No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this Article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.

jmyeet 9mo ago

[flagged]

ProjectArcturis 9mo ago
I was with you till the last paragraph. Banks having a huge short position is a false conspiracy theory.
- Xx_crazy420_xX 9mo ago
  Can either one be proved?
  - ProjectArcturis 9mo ago
    You would think, if banks did have a huge short position, they would have announced large losses in Q4 after metals mooned. They did not.
PlatoIsADisease 9mo ago
I agree, Gold is a 35 trillion dollar market. There is no pump and dump. What happened to HN, people are totally fine with fanciful ideas suddenly. Normies found it?

JumpCrisscross 9mo ago

> TikTok influencers The dump is proximately caused by Trump picking a normal Fed chairman. Nobody on TikTok has anything to do with that, they're just pumping everything because seeling out is their day job.

PlatoIsADisease 9mo ago

On Gold? You know the market is 35 trillion dollars? Do you have any idea how much you'd need to pump?

fuzzfactor 9mo ago
A good portion of that has been hoarded since biblical times, and has not been in actual "circulation" ever.
- defrost 9mo ago
  What percentage is "A good portion" ? Gold mining dates back to ancient civilisations. Our best estimates suggest that around 216,265 tonnes of gold have been mined throughout history. Interestingly, about two-thirds of this gold has been extracted since 1950. This massive increase in production has been due to advancements in mining technology and the discovery of new gold deposits. * https://www.gold.org/goldhub/data/how-much-gold https://www.gold.org/goldhub/data/how-much-gold 200 Years of Global Gold Production, by Country - https://elements.visualcapitalist.com/200-years-of-global-gold-production-by-country/ https://elements.visualcapitalist.com/200-years-of-global-go... Between 1500 and 1650, the Spanish imported 181 tons of gold and 16,000 tons of silver from the New World ... * https://www.quora.com/How-much-gold-did-the-Spaniards-take-from-South-America https://www.quora.com/How-much-gold-did-the-Spaniards-take-f... What's your estimate for the tonnage of gold "hoarded since biblical times" ?
  - fuzzfactor 9mo ago
    >What's your estimate Good question, I would say your guess is as good as mine, but looks like you have recent statistics ! Thanks for the information, it does look like realistic figures about as accurate as you can get. I just accept that as much as possible gold has always been hoarded much more strongly than silver amounts having the same values at the time. Enough to regard silver as a medium of exchange compared to gold as a store of value. Gold is so tightly hoarded that I expect that there is more than one accumulation established centuries ago, that originally consisted entirely of ancient gold which is comingled with material from the 20th century and maybe newer by now. It's also possible that before any human value was established for gold in prehistoric times, there might just have been untold megatons within reach as low-hanging fruit without need to do very much "mining" at all. Of course cave men had no formal education but they were sapiens just like us and had plenty of progressive generations over thousands of years to shrewdly recognize the advantage of not telling anybody about "untold" amounts of anything when it's regarded as valuable. At least some of them anyway :) And they sure had orders of magnitude more time to pursue economic interests and accumulate wealth before recorded history than there has been since then, no telling what they were keeping off the books when there weren't any books yet ! Edit: Not my downvote! Where did that come from? Corrective upvote now placed.

coffeebeqn 9mo ago

Gold has been going up for years now. I don’t know how much TikTok influencers influence the price. Seems to be mostly central banks and the falling apart of the international order that’s driving a neutral and unsanctionable tradeable asset up.

wakawaka28 9mo ago

It is very hard to pump the metals. The markets for them are just too big. You'd need whole countries buying to make a dent. Miners are another story. Those can be pumped and dumped like any other stock.