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The gamble with Cybertruck failed. It’s common sense, that such a vehicle will fail. The successful cars are made for masses and not for niche buyers. Common se

by lnsru 9mo ago

The gamble with Cybertruck failed. It’s common sense, that such a vehicle will fail. The successful cars are made for masses and not for niche buyers. Common sense product could be something smaller than Model 3 for Europe and this car would eat Chinese for lunch. Expensive experiment failed, it’s time for consequences. Does Tesla have resources for another car experiment? Will it stay a car company?.. Or it will be now a manufacturer of robot soldiers?..

rswail 9mo ago
BYD already have the Atto 1 (sub AUD30K here) as do other EV manufacturers (eg Nissan Leaf). Tesla could stop spending money on bullshit like the Cybertruck and spend it on vehicles that people actually need/want.
- hashtag-til 9mo ago
  Don't forget Renault 5!
  - beAbU 9mo ago
    And the Renault 4, the Hyundai Inster, and the Dacia Spring, and the Citroën C3, Fiat 500e, Kia EV3, Leapmotor T03. There are heaps of small/subcompact EVs on the European market now, all with very competitive prices. The newer ones seem to be getting cheaper and cheaper. Honestly I reckon a Tesla M2 will have a hard time succeeding in this market.
  - raphaelj 9mo ago
    Interestingly, the Renault 5 Turbo 3E is more Cyberpunk than anything Tesla is making!
  - poulpy123 9mo ago
    Is it an good car ?
    - WorldMaker 9mo ago
      Good enough that Ford is planning to slap their badge on it and hope Europe doesn't forget Ford while they are busy not actually manufacturing EVs.
- hnlmorg 9mo ago
  All the big European car manufacturers also have EV cars too. Plus there are plenty of popular options for high-end EVs that are far more glamorous as well as practical than the Cybertruck.
avhception 9mo ago
... but they aren't canceling the Cybertruck? Re: Robots bla bla: yeah, of course. FSD bla bla. Meh.
- Cthulhu_ 9mo ago
  That's weird too, maybe they just have some preorders they need to fulfill. They did stop its production for a while last year and reduced the number of models available.
shalmanese 9mo ago
> Common sense product could be something smaller than Model 3 for Europe and this car would eat Chinese for lunch. Yeah, that would be the Model 2, which Musk cancelled, then denied he cancelled, then has made no effort to review whatsoever so it exists in a limbo state of zero people working on it but it not being officially cancelled. Either way, it didn't come out in 2025 as planned. https://www.cbtnews.com/tesla-execs-raise-red-flags-after-musk-denied-25k-ev-cancellation-reuters-reports/ https://www.cbtnews.com/tesla-execs-raise-red-flags-after-mu... For a normal company, this would be disastrous. For a meme stock, this makes total sense since anyone claiming the Model 2 is dead can be shouted at by fans saying Musk himself disputed it was dead.
- angled 9mo ago
  The completed original line up was S 3 X Y The C didn’t fit that, nor would a 2. Unless he’s aiming for a lineup of products that has you seeing someone next Tuesday.
  - westmeal 9mo ago
    Lol I didn't even connect the dots together until this comment. For a dickhead rich memelord this one is at least somewhat clever.
    - devnullbrain 9mo ago
      It's his favourite joke, see Space Sex.
  - operation_moose 9mo ago
    And he couldn't get E (the original intended name) because Ford had it trademarked.
  - dambon 9mo ago
    2 S 3 X Y?
    - 9mo ago
raincole 9mo ago
> The successful cars are made for masses and not for niche buyers. When Tesla got started, full EVs were extremely niche. They were known for their short range and nothing else. Tesla defeated common sense. This is what supports their anti-common-sense stock price.
- mattmanser 9mo ago
  Everyone knew that was the future and that the big auto manufacturers were deliberately dragging. No-one (serious) thought there was a market for the cybertruck. The stock price is pure madness, it's like it's priced in robotaxis, but that's clearly not going to happen for Tesla. And if it did, it would be a small-ish market, their brand has become toxic in so many big markets.
  - philipallstar 9mo ago
    > Everyone knew that was the future and that the big auto manufacturers were deliberately dragging. Definitely not. Car electrification was definitely not obvious, and Tesla had to do many semi-impossible things to make it even slightly feasible.
    - Lapsa 9mo ago
      semi-impossible
    - jfyi 9mo ago
      >Car electrification was definitely not obvious The first electric car predates the 20th century. That seems pretty obvious. The problem was always batteries and charging infrastructure. I wouldn't call these semi-impossible, but it's something Tesla definitely contributed significantly to.
      - philipallstar 9mo ago
        > The first electric car predates the 20th century. That seems pretty obvious. If you count remote control cars as well then you have an even weightier point. But if you're serious about adapting technologies, countries and drivers to electric cars then you'll know that an electric car being made in the 19th century is totally irrelevent. Toyota even bet big on hydrogen rather than electric for a long time; that's how non-obvious it was.
arethuza 9mo ago
Why would a small Tesla "eat Chinese for lunch" - the brand is tainted (to put it mildly) and the Teslas I've been in didn't seem to have great design or build quality?
- antonkochubey 9mo ago
  because there is still 2012-era belief hanging around many people that Tesla's EV tech is superior to anything else
  - MPSimmons 9mo ago
    yeah, they legitimately used to be but the rest of the world has definitely improved and Teslas weirdly haven't that much. They're cruising on name brand and a really decent charging network, but even that moat is being breached.
- msh 9mo ago
  Today probably not but there was a time where Tesla doing a rush to electric car market dominance was not totally far fetched. This would have required them to have cars filling the important segments.
- phoronixrly 9mo ago
  Even without Musk's public persona, the Tesla build quality is infamous. I would never.
  - thephyber 9mo ago
    The entire car is a surveillance machine and the company is happy after a crash to taint the driver in the public’s eye if it will improve the image of their AutoPilot. It’s bad enough having to deal with car insurance after a crash without your car’s manufacturer blaming you in public, sending the recipients to news outlets. Tesla has a monopoly on their car repairs, which reduces the number of mechanics qualified to work on it, increasing the cost and the wait time. Teslas are a very expensive platform to service being largely an aluminum frame. Difficult+expensive to repair and replacements are expensive compared to cheaper cars which usually have more plastic. This means insurance is also expensive. And this doesn’t even begin to get into the weirdness of their reputation for hiring private eyes to stalk employees and call the police to in an attempt to get an employee killed. Having an exec who has a ketamine problem and mania issues doesn’t lend itself to long term stability.
alfiedotwtf 9mo ago
> could be something smaller than Model 3 for Europe Lol... not with those tariffs. In fact, I'd be willing to bet we see higher growth of Tata than Telsa in Europe over the next 10 years.
- panick21_ 9mo ago
  Tesla has a factor in Germany.
  - ben_w 9mo ago
    Yes but the factory seems to be struggling to find staff, and the job adverts I see around Berlin suggest the hiring team is out of touch with what appeals to the German job market: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46710328 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46710328
    - panick21_ 9mo ago
      That may be but the factory exists and operates. Any suggestion that it is somehow impossible to operate in the future is silly. Given that they once had 1700 people more its clear that its not the lack of hiring that the problem, but the lack of demand.
      - ben_w 9mo ago
        The bet was't "can't operate in the future", it was: In fact, I'd be willing to bet we see higher growth of Tata than Telsa in Europe over the next 10 years.
        panick21_ 9mo ago
        That's an irrelevant comparison. Also: https://xkcd.com/1102/ https://xkcd.com/1102/
        ben_w 9mo ago
panick21_ 9mo ago
Cybertruck was supposed to be for the masses. The just weren't able to hit the price point required because of overly optimistic engineering assessments. I think the whole stainless steel construction concept didn't work as first designed. And of course, Cybertruck design might not have been mass compatible buy being ugly. But that is subjective, if it was cheap and functional and without the political connotations it might have been different. But it was certainty a risky bet.
- alterom 9mo ago
  To be "for the masses", it would need to: - be smaller - have an actually usuable truck bed - be painted (so rust isn't an issue) - have a body that's not literally duck taped together in some places and can easily snap in others - use steel (which bends) for body construction - be suitable for towing hauls - not be ridiculously overpowered (...to the extent where engine can overpower the breaks) - have good visibility with a windshield that isn't at a sharp angle to the ground and body geometry which doesn't maximize blind spots - not have sharp corners that the cut you or doors that can decapitate your dog - have door handles that make doors openable in case of emergencies/no power situations/electric shorts - not have bulletproof glass (WTF, "for the masses"?) which makes makes it harder to rescue people when accidents happen - be easily repairable, or at least amenable to repairs in local non-Tesla shops, with customers being confident it their warranty won't go poof (as the law requires) - be easily customizeable for different applications (particularly when it comes to the bed) - not look so different from other trucks without any reason other than "Elon Musk wants to be edgy": ugly is subjective, being a billionaire's fashion statement isn't ...to start. That's off the top of my head. And, of course, being priced for the masses, which doesn't just happen. It's a design requirement. As it stands, the Cybertruck is, and has always been, a rich boy's luxury toy — and it was designed as one. It really seems like something got to Musk's head that he thought the world has so many edgy rich boys. You want to see a modern truck "for the masses"? That's Toyota IMV 0, aka Hilux Champ [1]. Ticks all the above boxes. And hits the $10,000 price point [2]. A literal order of magnitude cheaper than the Cybertruck. Speaking of which: a car "for the masses" isn't a truck. It's a minivan (gets the entire family from one place to another), it's a small sedan/hatchback (commuter vehicle), a crossover/small SUV to throw things, kids, and dogs into without having to play 3D Tetris in hard mode. But not a pickup truck, which is a specialized work vehicle. The masses aren't farmers and construction workers (most people live in the cities, and only a small number needs such a work vehicle). The popularity of The Truck in the US is, in a large part, a byproduct of regulation which gives certain exemptions to specialized work vehicles.[3] That's not even getting to the infrastructure part: trucks shine in remote, rural areas. And while one can always have a canister of gas in the truck bed, power stations can be hard to find in the middle of the field or a remote desert highway. But again, it's not impossible to make a truck for the masses (at least for certain markets). That's the $10K Hilux Champ. For all the luxury aspects of the Tesla sedan, it's been one of the most (if not the most) practical electric vehicles on account of range alone. It also looked like a normal car at a time when EVs screamed "look at me, I'm so greeeeeen!" from a mile away (remember 1st gen Nissan Leaf or BMW i3?). It was conformal and utilitarian, while also being futuristic and luxurious enough for the high price point was fair for what was offered. The public image of having a Tesla was good: you are affluent, future-forward, and caring for the environment. The Cybertruck went back on everything that made Tesla a success: it's conspicuous, impractical, overpriced, and currently having publicity rivaling that of the recent Melania documentary. It was not a risky bet. It was an a-priori losing bet. The world simply never needed as many edgy toys as Musk wanted to sell. And driving a car shaped as an "I'm a Musk fanboy" banner really lost its appeal after a few Roman salutes and the dear leader's DOGE stint. Overly optimistic engineering assessments? Perhaps, but they are much further down on the list of reasons of Cybertruck's failure. [1] https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a45752401/toyotas-10000-future-pickup-truck-is-basic-transportation-perfection/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a45752401/toyotas-10000... [2] https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2025-toyota-imv-0-pickup-truck-first-drive-review-japan-mobility-show https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2025-toyota-imv-0-pickup-... [3] https://reason.com/2024/02/02/why-are-pickup-trucks-ridiculously-huge-blame-government/ https://reason.com/2024/02/02/why-are-pickup-trucks-ridiculo...
jfyi 9mo ago
To be fair, robot soldiers are the only robotics and ai problems that need to be solved to pretty much eliminate labor problems across the board. I suspect China is going to beat him to the punch on this one too.
torginus 9mo ago
It didn't fail imo - it was intended a low-volume product for next-gen Tesla tech - Ethernet based fieldbus, 48V systems, area controllers etc. The philosophy is the same like other high-end cars - you field test your latest experimental tech first in a car with lower sales but high margins - if your fancy stuff has a 1% failure rate, in a 100k production run, that's 1000 vehicles - high but manageable. If you sell millions and its your main product, your company is over. This is the same playbook German manufacturers followed since forever. I bet the next gen Model 3 and robotaxi will get the cybertruck tech.
- InsideOutSanta 9mo ago
  Musk projected that the Cybertruck would sell 250k annually. It's selling around 20k. Even for Musk, that isn't normal exaggeration; that's a huge difference.
- skywhopper 9mo ago
  That is the opposite story that Musk told when hyping the Cybertruck, though.
- brk 9mo ago
  It failed based on the sales projections that Tesla set. Also, several reviews have not exactly been kind, along with lots of comments from owners about annoying issues and malfunctions. If Tesla needed beta testers for things they hadn't figured out yet there would have been better ways to go about that.
- vardump 9mo ago
  I think the real issue was that Cybertruck required way more structural parts (body) than Tesla originally thought. It was originally supposed to have a load bearing exoskeleton.
- jordanb 9mo ago
  > it was intended a low-volume product for next-gen Tesla tech If this is true that's not what Musk was saying beforehand.
InsideOutSanta 9mo ago
> smaller than Model 3 for Europe A few years ago, perhaps. But the brand has become tainted to the point where the exact people who would buy such a car are now avoiding Teslas. Instead, European manufacturers are filling that niche with cars like the Renault 5.
- londons_explore 9mo ago
  > the exact people who would buy such a car are now avoiding Teslas The traditional fix for this is to license the technology and do manufacturing for another carmaker to brand. It's super common for brand X of car to actually be a rebadged Y with slightly different shaped body panels. However, it only works if your product is good and you have decent margins. That means you have to compete with china cars, since the obvious thing for a western brand to do is to rebadge a chinese designed car and split the margins with the chinese designer/manufacturer.
  - rob74 9mo ago
    > the obvious thing for a western brand to do is to rebadge a chinese designed car and split the margins with the chinese designer/manufacturer Actually this is already happening with the Dacia Spring/Renault City: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dongfeng_Motor_Corporation#eGT_New_Energy_Automotive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dongfeng_Motor_Corporation#eGT...
  - jermaustin1 9mo ago
    > However, it only works if your product is good and you have decent margins. Not sure if the product has to be good. Look at the lineage of my wife's car The 2019 Chevy Trax, based on the Buick Encore, based on the Opel/Vauxhall Mokka. It isn't a good car under any of the badges, but it does run, and is small, but the crazy thing is my Ford Ranger gets roughly the same milage as it. Note: the gas milage is probably an American issue, because it runs a naturally aspirated i4 gas engine instead of a more efficient turbo diesel.
assimpleaspossi 9mo ago
>>The gamble with Cybertruck failed. Has it? I really don't know but I see these every day in my major city and there was a closed mall parking lot filled with cybertrucks the local dealer used to park there which were quickly turned over.
- breve 9mo ago
  Yes. It's a flop: https://insideevs.com/news/784715/tesla-cybertruck-ev-sales-drop-2025/ https://insideevs.com/news/784715/tesla-cybertruck-ev-sales-...
  - assimpleaspossi 9mo ago
    A flop is not a truck that was the best selling in the world two years ago and then 3/4 as many as Ford's EV truck and more than everyone else (according to your link). And since when is HN just like Reddit when one is downvoted for asking a question for clarity?
    - alterom 9mo ago
      OK, not a flop. An failure that didn't live up to the hype that generated the initial sales volume in pre-orders. The idea of the Cybertruck sold well — at a time before Musk's Roman salutes, shadowing Trump, running DOGE, and further enshittifying what remains of Twitter. The actual Cybertruck, once the pre-orders ran out... did not. Nearly half of all Cybertrucks sold (about 75% of those sold in 2024) were pre-orders. That's to say, people stopped buying once they saw the Cybertruck for what it actually was (ditto for Elon).
    - breve 9mo ago
      It's a flop. The Cybertruck didn't meet its sales targets and the sales it did have in 2024 were cut in half in 2025. It will continue to struggle in 2026: https://www.fastcompany.com/91475013/2026-will-be-the-year-cybertruck-dies https://www.fastcompany.com/91475013/2026-will-be-the-year-c...
cucumber3732842 9mo ago
The Cybertruck was very clearly designed to be a low production model to figure out teething issues in manufacturing and design. Think Plymouth Prowler. Like seriously, nobody makes a body out of heavy gauge sheet metal with simple shapes if they're planning on volume, it doesn't pencil out vs more die complexity and thinner material. But the future growth to justify that never seems to have materialized....
- poulpy123 9mo ago
  Elon Musk said he estimated 250k to 500k yearly sales
  - mekdoonggi 9mo ago
    So he's off by, what Elon might say is an "order of magnitude"
  - cucumber3732842 9mo ago
    I write that off as marketing BS. They very clearly didn't design it based on those expectations though.
butler14 9mo ago
Cybertruck was /the/ sign that things with Elon had... changed, IMO!
- epolanski 9mo ago
  Idk, his twitter account was enough to sort out he had lost control over himself.
epolanski 9mo ago
> Common sense product could be something smaller than Model 3 for Europe and this car would eat Chinese for lunch The Chinese EVs selling in Europe are mostly bigger cars. And the only reason they don't sell more is because we tariff the hell out of them.
rob74 9mo ago
It will be a manufacturer of vaporware if you look at how much they announced over the last years and how much of that has actually materialized... But yeah, I guess Tesla lives by its CEO (and his grand promises that keep the stock price up) and dies by its CEO (who alienated Tesla buyers by, amongst other things, throwing his lot in with a regressive fossil fuel supporting administration and by personally supervising the dismantling of agencies such as USAID).
thinkingtoilet 9mo ago
Any discussion of Tesla without mentioning Musk's actions is missing the most important piece. I heard someone on this site use the term "mind share", as in before Musk decided to alienate his main customer base, Tesla had the biggest "mind share" of any company in the world. I looked forward to buying a Tesla one day. Now, with Musk licking Trumps boots and actively doing very real damage with his work in DOGE and other things, I will literally never buy anything from that company ever again. It doesn't matter what Chinese car companies are doing. It matters that he stands for everything I don't so I will not give him my money.
jasondigitized 9mo ago
Eat BYD for lunch?
xnx 9mo ago
A Cybertruck-styled minivan would've been so badass. Like an updated version of the Toyota Van Wagon.
- runlaszlorun 9mo ago
  Any chance we can get VW to do a Cyber Vanagon??
GuB-42 9mo ago
That the Cybertruck would fail wasn't common sense. It failed because it sucked. I was supposed to be tough but it crumbled apart, and it didn't meet the European safety standards. Its design while controversial, had personality, problem is that it is the personality of Elon Musk, it was great when he was popular, but that popularity dropped sharply during the last years. Niche buyers are fine, Ferrari makes a lot of money doing just that, and cars made for the masses are not always successful Also, I am not a big fan of small EVs, and I live in Europe and I like small cars. Problem with small EVs is the range. Batteries are big, heavy, and expensive. It is fine in bigger, higher-end cars like what Tesla makes, but on a smaller, budget-friendly car, you have to make compromises, and consumers may demand a price too low to make good profit. So it is not guaranteed to be a market worth taking, especially if you have to compete on price against the Chinese.

by lnsru 9mo ago

rswail 9mo ago

BYD already have the Atto 1 (sub AUD30K here) as do other EV manufacturers (eg Nissan Leaf). Tesla could stop spending money on bullshit like the Cybertruck and spend it on vehicles that people actually need/want.

hashtag-til 9mo ago
Don't forget Renault 5!
- beAbU 9mo ago
  And the Renault 4, the Hyundai Inster, and the Dacia Spring, and the Citroën C3, Fiat 500e, Kia EV3, Leapmotor T03. There are heaps of small/subcompact EVs on the European market now, all with very competitive prices. The newer ones seem to be getting cheaper and cheaper. Honestly I reckon a Tesla M2 will have a hard time succeeding in this market.
- raphaelj 9mo ago
  Interestingly, the Renault 5 Turbo 3E is more Cyberpunk than anything Tesla is making!
- poulpy123 9mo ago
  Is it an good car ?
  - WorldMaker 9mo ago
    Good enough that Ford is planning to slap their badge on it and hope Europe doesn't forget Ford while they are busy not actually manufacturing EVs.
hnlmorg 9mo ago
All the big European car manufacturers also have EV cars too. Plus there are plenty of popular options for high-end EVs that are far more glamorous as well as practical than the Cybertruck.

avhception 9mo ago

... but they aren't canceling the Cybertruck? Re: Robots bla bla: yeah, of course. FSD bla bla. Meh.

Cthulhu_ 9mo ago
That's weird too, maybe they just have some preorders they need to fulfill. They did stop its production for a while last year and reduced the number of models available.

shalmanese 9mo ago

> Common sense product could be something smaller than Model 3 for Europe and this car would eat Chinese for lunch. Yeah, that would be the Model 2, which Musk cancelled, then denied he cancelled, then has made no effort to review whatsoever so it exists in a limbo state of zero people working on it but it not being officially cancelled. Either way, it didn't come out in 2025 as planned. https://www.cbtnews.com/tesla-execs-raise-red-flags-after-musk-denied-25k-ev-cancellation-reuters-reports/ https://www.cbtnews.com/tesla-execs-raise-red-flags-after-mu... For a normal company, this would be disastrous. For a meme stock, this makes total sense since anyone claiming the Model 2 is dead can be shouted at by fans saying Musk himself disputed it was dead.

angled 9mo ago
The completed original line up was S 3 X Y The C didn’t fit that, nor would a 2. Unless he’s aiming for a lineup of products that has you seeing someone next Tuesday.
- westmeal 9mo ago
  Lol I didn't even connect the dots together until this comment. For a dickhead rich memelord this one is at least somewhat clever.
  - devnullbrain 9mo ago
    It's his favourite joke, see Space Sex.
- operation_moose 9mo ago
  And he couldn't get E (the original intended name) because Ford had it trademarked.
- dambon 9mo ago
  2 S 3 X Y?
  - 9mo ago

raincole 9mo ago

> The successful cars are made for masses and not for niche buyers. When Tesla got started, full EVs were extremely niche. They were known for their short range and nothing else. Tesla defeated common sense. This is what supports their anti-common-sense stock price.

mattmanser 9mo ago
Everyone knew that was the future and that the big auto manufacturers were deliberately dragging. No-one (serious) thought there was a market for the cybertruck. The stock price is pure madness, it's like it's priced in robotaxis, but that's clearly not going to happen for Tesla. And if it did, it would be a small-ish market, their brand has become toxic in so many big markets.
- philipallstar 9mo ago
  > Everyone knew that was the future and that the big auto manufacturers were deliberately dragging. Definitely not. Car electrification was definitely not obvious, and Tesla had to do many semi-impossible things to make it even slightly feasible.
  - Lapsa 9mo ago
    semi-impossible
  - jfyi 9mo ago
    >Car electrification was definitely not obvious The first electric car predates the 20th century. That seems pretty obvious. The problem was always batteries and charging infrastructure. I wouldn't call these semi-impossible, but it's something Tesla definitely contributed significantly to.
    - philipallstar 9mo ago
      > The first electric car predates the 20th century. That seems pretty obvious. If you count remote control cars as well then you have an even weightier point. But if you're serious about adapting technologies, countries and drivers to electric cars then you'll know that an electric car being made in the 19th century is totally irrelevent. Toyota even bet big on hydrogen rather than electric for a long time; that's how non-obvious it was.

arethuza 9mo ago

Why would a small Tesla "eat Chinese for lunch" - the brand is tainted (to put it mildly) and the Teslas I've been in didn't seem to have great design or build quality?

antonkochubey 9mo ago
because there is still 2012-era belief hanging around many people that Tesla's EV tech is superior to anything else
- MPSimmons 9mo ago
  yeah, they legitimately used to be but the rest of the world has definitely improved and Teslas weirdly haven't that much. They're cruising on name brand and a really decent charging network, but even that moat is being breached.
msh 9mo ago
Today probably not but there was a time where Tesla doing a rush to electric car market dominance was not totally far fetched. This would have required them to have cars filling the important segments.
phoronixrly 9mo ago
Even without Musk's public persona, the Tesla build quality is infamous. I would never.
- thephyber 9mo ago
  The entire car is a surveillance machine and the company is happy after a crash to taint the driver in the public’s eye if it will improve the image of their AutoPilot. It’s bad enough having to deal with car insurance after a crash without your car’s manufacturer blaming you in public, sending the recipients to news outlets. Tesla has a monopoly on their car repairs, which reduces the number of mechanics qualified to work on it, increasing the cost and the wait time. Teslas are a very expensive platform to service being largely an aluminum frame. Difficult+expensive to repair and replacements are expensive compared to cheaper cars which usually have more plastic. This means insurance is also expensive. And this doesn’t even begin to get into the weirdness of their reputation for hiring private eyes to stalk employees and call the police to in an attempt to get an employee killed. Having an exec who has a ketamine problem and mania issues doesn’t lend itself to long term stability.

alfiedotwtf 9mo ago

> could be something smaller than Model 3 for Europe Lol... not with those tariffs. In fact, I'd be willing to bet we see higher growth of Tata than Telsa in Europe over the next 10 years.

panick21_ 9mo ago
Tesla has a factor in Germany.
- ben_w 9mo ago
  Yes but the factory seems to be struggling to find staff, and the job adverts I see around Berlin suggest the hiring team is out of touch with what appeals to the German job market: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46710328 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46710328
  - panick21_ 9mo ago
    That may be but the factory exists and operates. Any suggestion that it is somehow impossible to operate in the future is silly. Given that they once had 1700 people more its clear that its not the lack of hiring that the problem, but the lack of demand.
    - ben_w 9mo ago
      The bet was't "can't operate in the future", it was: In fact, I'd be willing to bet we see higher growth of Tata than Telsa in Europe over the next 10 years.
      - panick21_ 9mo ago
        That's an irrelevant comparison. Also: https://xkcd.com/1102/ https://xkcd.com/1102/
        ben_w 9mo ago

panick21_ 9mo ago

Cybertruck was supposed to be for the masses. The just weren't able to hit the price point required because of overly optimistic engineering assessments. I think the whole stainless steel construction concept didn't work as first designed. And of course, Cybertruck design might not have been mass compatible buy being ugly. But that is subjective, if it was cheap and functional and without the political connotations it might have been different. But it was certainty a risky bet.

alterom 9mo ago
To be "for the masses", it would need to: - be smaller - have an actually usuable truck bed - be painted (so rust isn't an issue) - have a body that's not literally duck taped together in some places and can easily snap in others - use steel (which bends) for body construction - be suitable for towing hauls - not be ridiculously overpowered (...to the extent where engine can overpower the breaks) - have good visibility with a windshield that isn't at a sharp angle to the ground and body geometry which doesn't maximize blind spots - not have sharp corners that the cut you or doors that can decapitate your dog - have door handles that make doors openable in case of emergencies/no power situations/electric shorts - not have bulletproof glass (WTF, "for the masses"?) which makes makes it harder to rescue people when accidents happen - be easily repairable, or at least amenable to repairs in local non-Tesla shops, with customers being confident it their warranty won't go poof (as the law requires) - be easily customizeable for different applications (particularly when it comes to the bed) - not look so different from other trucks without any reason other than "Elon Musk wants to be edgy": ugly is subjective, being a billionaire's fashion statement isn't ...to start. That's off the top of my head. And, of course, being priced for the masses, which doesn't just happen. It's a design requirement. As it stands, the Cybertruck is, and has always been, a rich boy's luxury toy — and it was designed as one. It really seems like something got to Musk's head that he thought the world has so many edgy rich boys. You want to see a modern truck "for the masses"? That's Toyota IMV 0, aka Hilux Champ [1]. Ticks all the above boxes. And hits the $10,000 price point [2]. A literal order of magnitude cheaper than the Cybertruck. Speaking of which: a car "for the masses" isn't a truck. It's a minivan (gets the entire family from one place to another), it's a small sedan/hatchback (commuter vehicle), a crossover/small SUV to throw things, kids, and dogs into without having to play 3D Tetris in hard mode. But not a pickup truck, which is a specialized work vehicle. The masses aren't farmers and construction workers (most people live in the cities, and only a small number needs such a work vehicle). The popularity of The Truck in the US is, in a large part, a byproduct of regulation which gives certain exemptions to specialized work vehicles.[3] That's not even getting to the infrastructure part: trucks shine in remote, rural areas. And while one can always have a canister of gas in the truck bed, power stations can be hard to find in the middle of the field or a remote desert highway. But again, it's not impossible to make a truck for the masses (at least for certain markets). That's the $10K Hilux Champ. For all the luxury aspects of the Tesla sedan, it's been one of the most (if not the most) practical electric vehicles on account of range alone. It also looked like a normal car at a time when EVs screamed "look at me, I'm so greeeeeen!" from a mile away (remember 1st gen Nissan Leaf or BMW i3?). It was conformal and utilitarian, while also being futuristic and luxurious enough for the high price point was fair for what was offered. The public image of having a Tesla was good: you are affluent, future-forward, and caring for the environment. The Cybertruck went back on everything that made Tesla a success: it's conspicuous, impractical, overpriced, and currently having publicity rivaling that of the recent Melania documentary. It was not a risky bet. It was an a-priori losing bet. The world simply never needed as many edgy toys as Musk wanted to sell. And driving a car shaped as an "I'm a Musk fanboy" banner really lost its appeal after a few Roman salutes and the dear leader's DOGE stint. Overly optimistic engineering assessments? Perhaps, but they are much further down on the list of reasons of Cybertruck's failure. [1] https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a45752401/toyotas-10000-future-pickup-truck-is-basic-transportation-perfection/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a45752401/toyotas-10000... [2] https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2025-toyota-imv-0-pickup-truck-first-drive-review-japan-mobility-show https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2025-toyota-imv-0-pickup-... [3] https://reason.com/2024/02/02/why-are-pickup-trucks-ridiculously-huge-blame-government/ https://reason.com/2024/02/02/why-are-pickup-trucks-ridiculo...

jfyi 9mo ago

To be fair, robot soldiers are the only robotics and ai problems that need to be solved to pretty much eliminate labor problems across the board. I suspect China is going to beat him to the punch on this one too.

torginus 9mo ago

It didn't fail imo - it was intended a low-volume product for next-gen Tesla tech - Ethernet based fieldbus, 48V systems, area controllers etc. The philosophy is the same like other high-end cars - you field test your latest experimental tech first in a car with lower sales but high margins - if your fancy stuff has a 1% failure rate, in a 100k production run, that's 1000 vehicles - high but manageable. If you sell millions and its your main product, your company is over. This is the same playbook German manufacturers followed since forever. I bet the next gen Model 3 and robotaxi will get the cybertruck tech.

InsideOutSanta 9mo ago
Musk projected that the Cybertruck would sell 250k annually. It's selling around 20k. Even for Musk, that isn't normal exaggeration; that's a huge difference.
skywhopper 9mo ago
That is the opposite story that Musk told when hyping the Cybertruck, though.
brk 9mo ago
It failed based on the sales projections that Tesla set. Also, several reviews have not exactly been kind, along with lots of comments from owners about annoying issues and malfunctions. If Tesla needed beta testers for things they hadn't figured out yet there would have been better ways to go about that.
vardump 9mo ago
I think the real issue was that Cybertruck required way more structural parts (body) than Tesla originally thought. It was originally supposed to have a load bearing exoskeleton.
jordanb 9mo ago
> it was intended a low-volume product for next-gen Tesla tech If this is true that's not what Musk was saying beforehand.

InsideOutSanta 9mo ago

> smaller than Model 3 for Europe A few years ago, perhaps. But the brand has become tainted to the point where the exact people who would buy such a car are now avoiding Teslas. Instead, European manufacturers are filling that niche with cars like the Renault 5.

londons_explore 9mo ago
> the exact people who would buy such a car are now avoiding Teslas The traditional fix for this is to license the technology and do manufacturing for another carmaker to brand. It's super common for brand X of car to actually be a rebadged Y with slightly different shaped body panels. However, it only works if your product is good and you have decent margins. That means you have to compete with china cars, since the obvious thing for a western brand to do is to rebadge a chinese designed car and split the margins with the chinese designer/manufacturer.
- rob74 9mo ago
  > the obvious thing for a western brand to do is to rebadge a chinese designed car and split the margins with the chinese designer/manufacturer Actually this is already happening with the Dacia Spring/Renault City: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dongfeng_Motor_Corporation#eGT_New_Energy_Automotive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dongfeng_Motor_Corporation#eGT...
- jermaustin1 9mo ago
  > However, it only works if your product is good and you have decent margins. Not sure if the product has to be good. Look at the lineage of my wife's car The 2019 Chevy Trax, based on the Buick Encore, based on the Opel/Vauxhall Mokka. It isn't a good car under any of the badges, but it does run, and is small, but the crazy thing is my Ford Ranger gets roughly the same milage as it. Note: the gas milage is probably an American issue, because it runs a naturally aspirated i4 gas engine instead of a more efficient turbo diesel.

assimpleaspossi 9mo ago

>>The gamble with Cybertruck failed. Has it? I really don't know but I see these every day in my major city and there was a closed mall parking lot filled with cybertrucks the local dealer used to park there which were quickly turned over.

breve 9mo ago
Yes. It's a flop: https://insideevs.com/news/784715/tesla-cybertruck-ev-sales-drop-2025/ https://insideevs.com/news/784715/tesla-cybertruck-ev-sales-...
- assimpleaspossi 9mo ago
  A flop is not a truck that was the best selling in the world two years ago and then 3/4 as many as Ford's EV truck and more than everyone else (according to your link). And since when is HN just like Reddit when one is downvoted for asking a question for clarity?
  - alterom 9mo ago
    OK, not a flop. An failure that didn't live up to the hype that generated the initial sales volume in pre-orders. The idea of the Cybertruck sold well — at a time before Musk's Roman salutes, shadowing Trump, running DOGE, and further enshittifying what remains of Twitter. The actual Cybertruck, once the pre-orders ran out... did not. Nearly half of all Cybertrucks sold (about 75% of those sold in 2024) were pre-orders. That's to say, people stopped buying once they saw the Cybertruck for what it actually was (ditto for Elon).
  - breve 9mo ago
    It's a flop. The Cybertruck didn't meet its sales targets and the sales it did have in 2024 were cut in half in 2025. It will continue to struggle in 2026: https://www.fastcompany.com/91475013/2026-will-be-the-year-cybertruck-dies https://www.fastcompany.com/91475013/2026-will-be-the-year-c...

cucumber3732842 9mo ago

The Cybertruck was very clearly designed to be a low production model to figure out teething issues in manufacturing and design. Think Plymouth Prowler. Like seriously, nobody makes a body out of heavy gauge sheet metal with simple shapes if they're planning on volume, it doesn't pencil out vs more die complexity and thinner material. But the future growth to justify that never seems to have materialized....

poulpy123 9mo ago
Elon Musk said he estimated 250k to 500k yearly sales
- mekdoonggi 9mo ago
  So he's off by, what Elon might say is an "order of magnitude"
- cucumber3732842 9mo ago
  I write that off as marketing BS. They very clearly didn't design it based on those expectations though.

butler14 9mo ago

Cybertruck was /the/ sign that things with Elon had... changed, IMO!

epolanski 9mo ago
Idk, his twitter account was enough to sort out he had lost control over himself.

epolanski 9mo ago

> Common sense product could be something smaller than Model 3 for Europe and this car would eat Chinese for lunch The Chinese EVs selling in Europe are mostly bigger cars. And the only reason they don't sell more is because we tariff the hell out of them.

rob74 9mo ago

It will be a manufacturer of vaporware if you look at how much they announced over the last years and how much of that has actually materialized... But yeah, I guess Tesla lives by its CEO (and his grand promises that keep the stock price up) and dies by its CEO (who alienated Tesla buyers by, amongst other things, throwing his lot in with a regressive fossil fuel supporting administration and by personally supervising the dismantling of agencies such as USAID).

thinkingtoilet 9mo ago

Any discussion of Tesla without mentioning Musk's actions is missing the most important piece. I heard someone on this site use the term "mind share", as in before Musk decided to alienate his main customer base, Tesla had the biggest "mind share" of any company in the world. I looked forward to buying a Tesla one day. Now, with Musk licking Trumps boots and actively doing very real damage with his work in DOGE and other things, I will literally never buy anything from that company ever again. It doesn't matter what Chinese car companies are doing. It matters that he stands for everything I don't so I will not give him my money.

jasondigitized 9mo ago

Eat BYD for lunch?

xnx 9mo ago

A Cybertruck-styled minivan would've been so badass. Like an updated version of the Toyota Van Wagon.

runlaszlorun 9mo ago
Any chance we can get VW to do a Cyber Vanagon??

GuB-42 9mo ago

That the Cybertruck would fail wasn't common sense. It failed because it sucked. I was supposed to be tough but it crumbled apart, and it didn't meet the European safety standards. Its design while controversial, had personality, problem is that it is the personality of Elon Musk, it was great when he was popular, but that popularity dropped sharply during the last years. Niche buyers are fine, Ferrari makes a lot of money doing just that, and cars made for the masses are not always successful Also, I am not a big fan of small EVs, and I live in Europe and I like small cars. Problem with small EVs is the range. Batteries are big, heavy, and expensive. It is fine in bigger, higher-end cars like what Tesla makes, but on a smaller, budget-friendly car, you have to make compromises, and consumers may demand a price too low to make good profit. So it is not guaranteed to be a market worth taking, especially if you have to compete on price against the Chinese.