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I can't remember when was the last S/X refresh. It's nuts they just let it go stale and shut the factory down.
by sampton 8mo ago
I can't remember when was the last S/X refresh. It's nuts they just let it go stale and shut the factory down.
- toomuchtodo 8mo agoTesla got the job done, which was empower Musk, not manufacture EVs at scale. The stock is the product.
- totetsu 8mo agoHas it all really been just one giant grift to steal every Americans social security number.
- WalterBright 8mo agoAnd what would he do with them?
- lazide 8mo agoThe same systems had labor board whistleblower info. Why would musk love to identify (or at a minimum, but a huge chilling effect on) labor board whistleblowers? The world may never know.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- toomuchtodo 8mo agoTry to impair democracy through election denial groups? Absolute power and all that jazz. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46734078 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46734078 The Trump administration admits even more ways DOGE accessed sensitive personal data - https://www.npr.org/2026/01/23/nx-s1-5684185/doge-data-social-security-privacy https://www.npr.org/2026/01/23/nx-s1-5684185/doge-data-socia... - January 23rd, 2026 Case No. 1:25-cv-00596-ELH - https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.577321/gov.uscourts.mdd.577321.197.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.577... > The unnamed employees secretly conferred with a political advocacy group about a request to match Social Security data with state voter rolls to "find evidence of voter fraud and to overturn election results in certain States," the filing said. It remains unclear whether any data actually went to this group. “Maybe you do not care much about the future of the Republican Party. You should. Conservatives will always be with us. If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. The will reject democracy.” —- David Frum
- junofan 8mo agoSo why the car company? Also I was told there is no voter fraud. Is that just because nobody’s looking?
- toomuchtodo 8mo ago> So why the car company? How else was he going to become wealthy? Wealth is unelected power. Show me evidence he’s after anything but power. > Also I was told there is no voter fraud. Is that just because nobody’s looking? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_fraud_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_fraud_in_the_United_... https://www.npr.org/2024/10/11/nx-s1-5147732/voter-fraud-explainer https://www.npr.org/2024/10/11/nx-s1-5147732/voter-fraud-exp... https://www.brennancenter.org/topics/voting-elections/vote-suppression/myth-voter-fraud https://www.brennancenter.org/topics/voting-elections/vote-s... https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/debunking-voter-fraud-myth https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/debu... There is no material voter fraud. It is a red herring to disenfranchise voters.
- toomuchtodo 8mo agoAdditional citation: The Georgia voter data is clean - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46856850 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46856850 - February 2026
- Braxton1980 8mo ago>Also I was told there is no voter fraud. Is that just because nobody’s looking? I was told you haven't raped anyone, is that because we haven't looked into it? Unless there's evidence that something happened when decisions need to be made we assume it didn't. It's so sad an engineer like you believe there was widespread fraud in the 2020 election even after all the investigations. It speaks volumes to your abilities in all aspects of life.
- croon 8mo agoI'm not following your logic. What you responded to was a quote of a request that claimed that was what they were looking for. Whether it was a good-faith request or they used the data for only that, etc is the real question. And if they did find something, it would obviously have been in court a long time ago.
- jopsen 8mo ago> The stock is the product. Musk reeks of scam. But for a stock pump and dumb scheme there sure are a lot of teslas on the road.
- tw04 8mo agoTesla sold 1.7M cars in 2024. Toyota sold 11.1M cars in 2024. Tesla’s current market cap is $1.43T. Toyota’s current market cap is $354B. There really aren’t that many teslas on the road, and their sales are declining.
- wasfgwp 8mo agoThis kind of maybe made sense for a while their revenue was growing at a very fast pace but now that its stagnant/falling they are no different to any other car company.
- burningChrome 8mo agoI wonder if this coincides with Musk getting into politics? Never a good choice to alienate half your customer base. Michael Jordan famously said he never got into politics because "Republicans buy sneakers, too."
- tonyhart7 8mo agoTesla stock isn't valued as a car company
- ben_w 8mo agoWhich is exactly the problem. The stock is priced on expectations of how many humanoid robots they might sell over the next decade. Those expectations in turn treat humanoid robotics as if Tesla is the only game in town, when Tesla's Optimus is not yet available for purchase and other companies already ship. Then someone brings up the value of Tesla's AI to those robots, and here's my response to that to save re-writing it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46799603 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46799603
- misiek08 8mo agoMaybe I’m just naive enough, because I love cars and progress, but I think you agree that he really showed our whole small world that EV can exist and work. Everyone laughed, no one believed it will work and here he still is rich and we have Teslas everywhere. Driving, not killing more people than other brands.
- longitudinal93 8mo agoExcept that the Model Y accounts for more fatalities than any other car out there.
- codebolt 8mo agoGoing to need a citation on this one.
- ted_dunning 8mo agoI don't even think it is correct. Teslas as a whole have twice the fatality rate [1] per billion miles as the industry overall and the model Y has a rate 4x the industry average, but that can't overwhelm the fact that there are too few Teslas on the road to make that 2x or 4x turn into more total fatalities. [1] https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a62919131/tesla-has-highest-fatal-accident-rate-of-all-auto-brands-study/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a62919131/tesla-has-highes...
- darkwater 8mo agoA quote from the original study [1], in which Porsche 911 is the 4th on the list “The models on this list likely reflect a combination of driver behavior and driving conditions, leading to increased crashes and fatalities.” I would like to remind you that Tesla's least powered vehicle has around 300HP and needs ~7s to go from 0 to 100km/h. Musk is a moron but Teslas are still good and safe vehicles. [1] https://www.iseecars.com/most-dangerous-cars-study https://www.iseecars.com/most-dangerous-cars-study
- Cthulhu_ 8mo agoWhile you're correct on the one hand, Tesla made EVs feasible and mainstream, did the investments and caused a rolling effect of worldwide investments in e.g. batteries and EVs, and government subsidies that also made investing in EVs more attractive to competitors. Besides EVs, Tesla's long term revenue could very well be in the supercharger network, too. It's not as exciting as self driving cars, but the oil companies have been the most valuable companies / stocks worldwide without being exciting like that. I mean I don't think EV charging will be anywhere near as big as oil because it doesn't involve nearly as much infrastructure or international trade, but it's still big, especially if governments refocus on replacing ICEs with EVs. (the focus has been let go because the subsidies were too popular and expensive)
- DennisP 8mo agoI agreed on the supercharger network, which made it pretty surprising when Musk fired the entire supercharger team.
- laughing_man 8mo agoMusk's goal all along was to get away from boutique production. He wants to sell millions of cheaper cars, not thousands of cars for wealthy people. Not sure it's going to work out. Without some big jumps in battery tech, EVs are going to be difficult to sell without subsidies.
- defrost 8mo agoAnd yet Chinese EV's are flying out of their factories, well, a few are - most are self driving out to the shipping yards. This despite the 2025 support by the Chinese state for the Chines EV industry now being almost nothing. By contrast, defenders of China could point out that the data show that subsidies as a percentage of total sales have declined substantially, from over 40% in the early years to only 11.5% in 2023, which reflects a pattern in line with heavier support for infant industries, then a gradual reduction as they mature. In addition, they could note that the average support per vehicle has fallen from $13,860 in 2018 to just under $4,600 in 2023, which is less than the $7,500 credit that goes to buyers of qualifying vehicles as part of the U.S.’s Inflation Reduction Act. Old source: https://www.csis.org/blogs/trustee-china-hand/chinese-ev-dilemma-subsidized-yet-striking https://www.csis.org/blogs/trustee-china-hand/chinese-ev-dil... but the arc of less subsidies is clear.
- 01100011 8mo agoYou'd expect subsidies to drop as supply chains mature and economies of scale kick in. What about subsidies to inputs like electricity, aluminum, batteries, etc?
- defrost 8mo agoYou would be better answered by reading the link and any methodology references. Perhaps "support" already factors in all relevant subsidies.
- thesmtsolver2 8mo agoYou should also factor in lax human rights enforcement in China (which acts like a subsidy essentially in effect and is not factored in these calculations): https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/10/human-rights-ranking-electric-vehicle-industry/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/10/human-rights-... BYD is at the bottom of the list (worst for human rights). Tesla is second at the top (better for human rights).
- trhway 8mo agoThe refresh would need large investment. And it seems that S/X weren't selling that well to warrant such an investment. Just looking around - SV, a key market for Tesla - everybody buys 3 and Y, not S and X. In some sense it seems that 3/Y cannibalized S/X.
- Cthulhu_ 8mo agoWhile that's true, S/X were considered luxury vehicles, 3/Y mainstream and they far, FAR outsold the S/X. In most cases, volume trumps individual prices. Of course, that doesn't mean they had to discontinue those lines.
- dybber 8mo agoAs luxury vehicles they were also competing in a different market, where competitors have caught up.
- panick21_ 8mo agoThe problem is just there is no concept of a car company where they only sell their standard mass market vehicles. Somewhat more expensive higher margin vehicles are in the lineup for almost all the other companies. Its kind of strange to suggest its not worth it when it is seemingly worth it for most other companies. Maybe the wisdom of having a 'full lineup' is wrong and has to do with making dealers happy. On the other hand, having 99% of your sales be 2 very similar vehicles seems questionable strategy.
- trhway 8mo agoIt is worth it when it is done right, i.e when you do correct market differentiation (see my other comment here on Mercedes) to avoid your low end cannibalizing your higher end. This high margin really helps you, and this is why almost everybody does it. EVs are probably even better suited for it given that the platform itself is easier/cheaper to share between the low end and the high end - thus the current Teslas S/X story looks even more of a failure as by releasing 3/Y that similar to S/X (that probably helped a lot with 3/Y sales though) they forced themselves into the need for a very significant (expensive) redesign of S/X while having very low sales of it.